Sandy Hook: Some Thoughts

[rightwinger]

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/12.04.2024-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT.pdf

Your report says it is a possibility
That is not proof

 

[Rawley]

Your report says it is a possibility
That is not proof

The evidence is in the report.

 

[rightwinger]

The evidence is in the report.

The report says it is possible
It has no proof that it DID happen

 

[Rawley]

The report says it is possible
It has no proof that it DID happen

2nd time. Proof is in the report. It actually says "“most likely emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, China” which is pretty compelling given China's and Fauci's concerted efforts to conceal the evidence.

 

[Foxfyre]

As someone who's interested in conspiracies in general, you often hear (in the media) about conspiracies alleging Sandy Hook never took place, or something to that effect. Of course, they put their own filter on it, and as a result it's impossible to really organically form your own opinion on the matter, so I went and found out what the people who believe it was a hoax had to say for themselves. The official narrative says that Adam Lanza, and mentally unwell young man, took his parents' gun, shot his mom with it, and then went to Sandy Hook Elementary School and shot a bunch of kids and teachers. Proponents of the hoax allege that either nothing happened, or that it was just sort of a drill. Proponents of the hoax theory present several pieces of evidence for their claims, some more compelling than others. So going point by point I'll present my thoughts.

The hoax theorists case can be viewed at:

1. Crisis actors were used because the people at Sandy Hook appear visually similar to some people at other crises, and many of the parents were, by profession, actors and entertainers. My objection to this argument is the fact that in a country of 350,000,000 people, it's by no means impossible to have people who look similar to one another. Furthermore, some people get into acting to make a living. That's just life. This claim generally falls flat, and I think most people would agree with that. The exception is for Mr. Parker, who is on video literally laughing and chit chatting with people prior to giving a statement...about his son being killed. This certainly raises a red flag, however, it says nothing about the other people involved.

2. Dash-cam footage from a police car in the parking lot shows no kids being evacuated at the time of or soon after the shooting. I think the hole in this piece of evidence is that it makes an assumption about what route the kids took being led out of the school. The kids were taken to the firehouse, and indeed the shortest path would pass right in front of that dash cam. HOWEVER, the shortest path in this case, was visible from a lot of windows as it required exit from a wider part of the building. It was also obstructed by parked cars. The safest route, in fact, would have actually avoided the area viewed by the dash cam in question.

3. An article was published in which the principal was interviewed in person. The catch? The principal was dead. She could not possibly have been interviewed. Furthermore, apparently the date the webpage on which the article was created was a day before the shooting. I also don't think this is particularly compelling because of the fact that the press in the US is notorious for sloppy reporting stemming from a desire to be the first to report on something. Factor in the panic of the day, and the reported could have easily misidentified the principal. Regarding the webpage creation date, that, more likely, is tied to the press being in a rush. If they'd created a blank page the day before, and then filled it in on the day of the shooting, then a computer would indeed say that the page was created the day before a shooting.

I have never even considered the conspiracy theorists that Sandy Hook was a hoax to be worthy of anybody's time of day. But the government/media at any level doesn't help any situation when it deliberately withholds information from the public. When that happens it is inevitable that conspiracy theories will bloom like crazy.

I have nothing but compassion for the Sandy Hook families who lost their children and loved ones. It was a horrible, cruel, unnecessary and unwarranted tragedy.

The only factor that has caused me to stop and think about it was the Alex Jones lawsuit presumably initiated by Sandy Hook parents--I don't believe that for a minute--who claimed great pain and suffering because of Jones' conspiracy theory. When you look at all the people on message boards, social media, etc. who proposed various theories, the one person with very deep pockets is the one sued. Successfully as it seems.

I never EVER heard anything about Jones' theories until the lawsuit was filed. But then I have never looked to Alex Jones for information for anything. I think it unlikely that the Sandy Hook families were fans of Jones either. How many people were inspired to harass Sandy Hook families because of Alex Jones? I don't know. And I doubt anyone knows whether such meanspirited hateful people were acting on information Jones provided or that many on social media and message boards were putting out.

An unfortunate thing. But the class action lawsuit has become a huge money maker for law firms that specialize in going after very rich individuals and corporations. Sometimes those suits are legitimate. And sometimes not so much. But it definitely puts a strain on First Amendment constitutional rights.

 

[ZestolPastilevsky]

I have never even considered the conspiracy theorists that Sandy Hook was a hoax to be worthy of anybody's time of day. But the government doesn't help any situation when it deliberately withholds information from the public. When that happens it is inevitable that conspiracy theories will bloom like crazy.

The only factor that has cause me to stop and think about it was the Alex Jones lawsuit presumably initiated by Sandy Hook parents--I don't believe that for a minute--who claimed great pain and suffering because of Jones' conspiracy theory. When you look at all the people on message boards, social media, etc. who proposed various theories, the one person with very deep pockets is the one sued. Successfully as it seems.

I never EVER heard anything about Jones' theories until the lawsuit was filed. I think it unlikely that the Sandy Hook families were fans of Jones either. How many people were inspired to harass Sandy Hook families because of Alex Jones? I don't know. And I doubt anyone knows whether such meanspirited hateful people were acting on information Jones provided or that many on social media and message boards were putting out.

An unfortunate thing. But the class action lawsuit has become a huge money maker for law first that specialize in going after very rich individuals and corporations. Sometimes those suits are legitimate. And sometimes not so much.

Well, for arguments sake, Jones' voice carries more weight in the public forum than ours. And I think in some cases, legal action was at the least threatened against people online who expressed skepticism about the official story. But I agree. The governments attempts to stifle discussion on the topic was a huge mistake, and completely counterproductive.

 

[rightwinger]

who claimed great pain and suffering because of Jones' conspiracy theory. When you look at all the people on message boards, social media, etc. who proposed various theories, the one person with very deep pockets is the one sued. Successfully as it seems.

Jones has an audience of millions
His misinformation and taunts of grieving families led to harassment from his idiot followers.

What he did was to make him money and he deserves what happened to him

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, for arguments sake, Jones' voice carries more weight in the public forum than ours. And I think in some cases, legal action was at the least threatened against people online who expressed skepticism about the official story. But I agree. The governments attempts to stifle discussion on the topic was a huge mistake, and completely counterproductive.

Yes. I think Jones was off base and shouldn't have gotten into that conspiracy theory stuff. But he certainly carries no more weight than national network and cable channels and large newspapers etc. And he should have First Amendment protection for his point of view, however stupid, as much as anybody else. But he was rich, controversial, and hated by some which made him a good target I guess.

 

[ZestolPastilevsky]

Yes. I think Jones was off base and shouldn't have gotten into that conspiracy theory stuff. But he certainly carries no more weight than national network and cable channels and large newspapers etc. And he should have First Amendment protection for his point of view, however stupid, as much as anybody else. But he was rich, controversial, and hated by some which made him a good target I guess.

Well, I think the press need to be held accountable for lies more often, so this sets a usable precedent. Maybe one day people connected to the war against Iraq will be taken to task. Hell, remember how the press was recently screeching that the North Koreans were sent to Kursk to fight against Ukraine? Weeks have passed, thousands have died, and yet not a single North Korean has been seen. Now suddenly it's like there's amnesia about them making those claims. You know, they pushed totally bogus claims to get the public riled up and to support continuing fueling the war over there. Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

 

[Foxfyre]

Jones has an audience of millions
His misinformation and taunts of grieving families led to harassment from his idiot followers.

What he did was to make him money and he deserves what happened to him

What he deserved is not the issue. And yes he had a long running radio show and on line publication with an estimated market share of about five million which is a little over 1% of the U.S. population. But was it HIS idiot followers doing the harassing or other idiots on message boards and social media?

I am pretty sure if Jones had not been a billionaire he would have been harshly criticized but no class action suit would have been filed.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, I think the press need to be held accountable for lies more often, so this sets a usable precedent. Maybe one day people connected to the war against Iraq will be taken to task. Hell, remember how the press was recently screeching that the North Koreans were sent to Kursk to fight against Ukraine? Weeks have passed, thousands have died, and yet not a single North Korean has been seen. Now suddenly it's like there's amnesia about them making those claims. You know, they pushed totally bogus claims to get the public riled up and to support continuing fueling the war over there. Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

There is nothing in the First Amendment addressing lies. Yes, libel and slander are legitimate crimes those committing them should be held accountable. But it should not be a crime to be wrong apart from committing libel and slander.

If I believe something that isn't true and you tell somebody else and that somebody else makes a bad choice based on wrong information, who is to blame? Me? You? Or the person who made a choice without checking to see what is true first?

People on line give me bad advice all the time. But it wouldn't occur to me that taking or rejecting that bad advice was not my responsibility but was theirs.

I am called fascist, liar, Nazi, science-denier, religious fanatic or pick an insulting term of choice all the time on line. If you decide to repeat that to me is that the person who first said it fault? Or is it your fault?

The First Amendment is both vague and complicated. But basic principles of having the right to your opinion, short of libel and slander, is pretty well set in concrete.

 

[Zincwarrior]

In any event, even if that was found credible, it still doesn’t justify the absurd amount of the awarded “damages.”

The jury that listened to the case disagree.

 

[rightwinger]

What he deserved is not the issue. And yes he had a long running radio show and on line publication with an estimated market share of about five million which is a little over 1% of the U.S. population. But was it HIS idiot followers doing the harassing or other idiots on message boards and social media?

I am pretty sure if Jones had not been a billionaire he would have been harshly criticized but no class action suit would have been filed.

Jones lit the fire

He continued his lies and harassment even while the trial was going on

No sympathy from me

 

[BackAgain]

The jury that listened to the case disagree.

No kidding.

But that’s why judges are there to review such damage awards.

Juries can reach their conclusions and make damage awards. But that doesn’t mean a judge is obligated to permit an excessive award to stand.

 

[playtime]

i live in CT. it happened.

 

[Zincwarrior]

i live in CT. it happened.

Yes, we saw it. You have to be stark raving mad to think it didn't. And that was fueled by Alex jones.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, we saw it. You have to be stark raving mad to think it didn't. And that was fueled by Alex jones.

You have to be incredibly cruel to grieving families

 

[dudmuck]

i live in CT. it happened.

 

[luiza]

Anyone who denied or who took part in the hoax should be in jail for ten years.

There speaks one of our Cognitively Rigid Sheeple -- Horsey the Horse .

 

[luiza]

You have to be incredibly cruel to grieving families

First show they exist before you give us the Victim routine .

Uvalde was the same -- no birth records for the "victims" .