Sandra Fluke's Testimony - Here it is. Watch so you will not look like such a fool~

[Si modo]

Regardless, the SCOTUS has repeatedly ruled in favor of protection of First Amendment rights.

Of course they have. That's their job. But they have also maintained that first amendment rights are indeed limited, and that many claims are not entitled to first amendment protections.

You and I disagree on this. I am a huge proponent of First Amendment rights because I am of the belief that without that few other inherent rights are possible.

So, if Obama really pushes this, he will lose a lot of Catholic support (and they supported him), but he will also lose a lot of us who value the Constitution. Not saying you don't, but I am baffled at how so many are willing to budge so willingly on these rights.

Personally, it's just that I subscribe to Scalia's arguments, as described in Smith, and those in all the other previous cases, about the limits of the first amendment. I don't think that acknowledging limits on freedoms means that one is in any way less of a proponent of those freedoms. I'm also a strong proponent of gun ownership rights and firmly support responsible gun ownership. But I don't object to the limits on those rights that allow states to regulate gun ownership, either, so long as those regulations don't encroach on as much of that right as the constitution does protect.

If Obama goes for this, this WILL be challenged. Hopefully, Congress will come to their senses and fix it. They should.

The health care law is already signed, and is already being challenged. Personally, I do not support the law. I wish it had not been passed, and I would like to see it repealed. But it's not going to happen though the courts. And I have no interest in seeing the Congress craft law that pacifies one religious group over another.

This is probably already on its way to the SCOTUS. They've upheld rights of religious organizations to discriminate, so this would be a no-brainer.


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[The T]

I am sure there are a plethora of 'laws' out there that infringe on the BOR...it's just the laws haven't been challanged, and accepted as normal. This is where tyranny gets a foothold, and Liberty begins to dwindle.

The constitution does not protect rights absolutely from any infringement whatsoever. That is why slander and libel laws are constitutional. And why it is permissible for the government to act against you for threatening the President. And why the the government can outlaw polygamy and gay marriage. Creating reasonable laws for an orderly society is not tyranny. Saying so is just foolishness.

Really?

 

[The T]

In The Middle? YOU are a danger to this Republic.

YOU are an idiot.

 

[Sunshine]

Unless Georgetown itself is lying.

I posted it earlier.


They have insurance through another source, or buy Georgetown's.

And most will have no other option for insurance. Therefore, the school is putting the squeeze on the students to promtoe a religious agenda!

The students have a choice of HC insurance, contrary to what many believe.

And, as the school is run by a religious organization, they can promote that religion as much as they want.

With private policies costing upward of $1000/month, they do NOT have a choice. I know what it's like to be in graduate school with a child in HS and one in college. You don't have the money to throw away like that. The school policy is your only choice. I have a sneaking suspicion that the policy the school offeres is the exact same policy every other school offers, but minus the contraception coverage. I know the company, but I won't post the name. If that is the case then those students have a good case of religions discrimination. She just may not be far enough along in law school to know that Just because they are 'private' doesn't mean they can do what they want. When the doors of a private institution are opened to the publc, then public policy applies. That is WELL settled. They certainly could not discriminate aginst blacks just because they are private. They have opened their door do everyone. So, neither can they discriminate against non Catholics.

 

[Sunshine]

Newsflash, not covering everything under the sun is not pushing a religious agenda.

Okay, so what do we call it when normal and routine medical practices are specifically excluded, for no other reasons than forcing a religious practice upon the insured?

Excuse me? I have said this more than once in this thread alone, insurance is not designed to cover routine medical expenses. Birth control, as you just pointed out, is a routine medical expense. What I, and everyone else who understands what insurance is actually for, call this is common sense. Being that this is a free country you can call it whatever you want, just don't expect people with a brain to agree with you.

You are wrong.

 

[Sunshine]

Sunshine, they are NOT mandated to purchase the Georgetown insurance. They are mandated to HAVE insurance, though.

And you are positive that they are given other options?

Everyone is.

Options which are so expensive they cannot participate. Which means there are no options.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, so what do we call it when normal and routine medical practices are specifically excluded, for no other reasons than forcing a religious practice upon the insured?

Excuse me? I have said this more than once in this thread alone, insurance is not designed to cover routine medical expenses. Birth control, as you just pointed out, is a routine medical expense. What I, and everyone else who understands what insurance is actually for, call this is common sense. Being that this is a free country you can call it whatever you want, just don't expect people with a brain to agree with you.

You are wrong.

No I am not. Just because insurance covers routine expenses does not mean that it is designed to cover them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And you are positive that they are given other options?

Everyone is.

Options which are so expensive they cannot participate. Which means there are no options.

Really? Do you have any idea how little it costs to purchase a catastrophic insurance policy that is limited to a $100,000 payout?

 

[Sunshine]

The point of insurance is to cover unexpected expenses.

You might want to inform the insurance companies about that. It would be news to them.

the reason health care is so expensive in this country is employers and the government keep adding routine expenses to plans and removing market forces that would help keep prices down.

That is completely untrue. The reason health care is so expensive is because insurance companies hold so much damned power over the health care of patients, including the costs of health care. It's the insurance companies that are messing with the market, not the employers or government.

Here's an interesting fact that you probably didn't know. When you pay for insurance that covers $X, most of that money actually goes to the insurance company. That's right. If your coverage will pay for $100,000 a year in health care, you're actually only covered for about $33,000 a year in health care. When you reach that limit, you're kicked out. Doctor's "charge" certain amounts for services. But in reality, insurance companies dictate to the doctor how much they will receive, and how much they will bill you for. So, when your insurance company tells you that you have used $1.00 worth of services, what they're not telling you is that they're marking up the actual cost of services about 300% of what it actually cost. With all the rise in health care prices, it's not the actual services that are increasing in price. They can't! The providers are locked into contracts as to what the services will cost. It's the insurance companies that are increasing the prices they tell you it cost.

So why do these doctors and other providers continue to do business with these insurance companies under such terms? They have to. There's no other alternative. They could simply stop being affiliated with such and such insurance company. But then the doctor won't be able to see patients anymore. They could try to rely only on out of pocket payments from people who don't have insurance coverage. But they'd go out of business.

AHA! You think you just got me there, didn't you? You're thinking that what I just said about doctor's going out of business somehow means that the costs of services really are the problem. Actually, its not what I'm saying at all. The problem is that a doctor, in his lonesome practice, will never be enough to meet all of the needs of a typical patient. But unless he's doing business with the insurance companies of other providers, nothing he says or does will matter. So, even if a patient were to rely only on catastrophic coverage, everything that happened before the catastrophe would be thrown out the window after the catastrophe happens, because the insurance company won't pay otherwise.

See, the problem is that when a doctor doesn't participate with a given insurance company, it's like he doesn't exist. What do I mean? Let's say you have a primary care physician, whom you pay out of pocket when you need to see him, but you also have catastrophic coverage just in case of an emergency. Along the way, your doctor performs an allergy test and determines you're allergic to peanuts, and advises you on how to deal with this medical issue. One day, you inadvertently touch a peanut and suddenly you can't breath. You're rushed to the hospital, thanking god you have catastrophic coverage. But when you get to the hospital, nothing that you've ever done with your doctor before matters. Now, you're going to go through everything that you've already gone through. Because in the eyes of the insurance company, you've never been diagnosed. You never saw a doctor. So they're going to give you a whole fresh set of tests. Because that doctor, who doesn't affiliate with the insurance company, does not exist in their eyes. Now, the insurance company is going to decide whether you really are allergic to peanuts. And when they decide they don't want to cover the bill because it was a "pre-existing" condition (even though you had the coverage for years before you were diagnosed) they aren't going to pay.

How do I know all this? My girlfriend manages a doctor's office. I don't know how she does it sometimes. We can't always talk about her job because some of the stuff she tells me about pisses me off so much it makes me want to get violent. Like the time when she battled for a week to get an old man's prescription authorized by the insurance company, who insisted that he didn't really have the condition his doctor said he had and didn't really need the medicine the doctor prescribed. The man was coming into the office every day for six days straight, and she was stuck spending the majority of each day on the phone arguing with the insurance company to authorize the damn medicine. She was on the phone with them when the man coded right there in the office. She made sure to point that out to them just before she hung up to call 911. I could have killed someone that day.

Last year, for the first time in my life, I met my catastrophic deductible. Right now, getting my taxes togeter for two months, all I know is what I paid. If I ever get that done I will sit down and add up what the total cost was last year. Right now, I know that one of my medicines is $100K/year. I can get it for $320/year through the specialty pharmacy. The specialty pharmacy we had was wonderful. I really felt like they care whether I lived or died. Then we got a new specialty pharmacy. Their bottom line is ALL that matters. I have had to fight them tooth and nail. Thank God I am able to. The day will come when I am not. When I go on Medicare, I will have the choice to go back to the other specialty pharmacy and that will not be too soon! Without the medicine, you will die from the disease I have. Quickly. I know of one instance where they refused to send out the medicine because the woman owed them $200. That is how little her life was worth to them.

 

[Sunshine]

Everyone is.

Options which are so expensive they cannot participate. Which means there are no options.

Really? Do you have any idea how little it costs to purchase a catastrophic insurance policy that is limited to a $100,000 payout?

That would not be a catastrophic policy. A two week hospitalization costs more than that Just ONE of the meds I'm on costs $100K/year. Every year.. My insurance costs me $2000/year because it I have employer provided insurance. I would not be able to buy a private policy. And 100K would be chicken feed.

One week at Vanderbilt was 52K JUST for the hospital. The doctor bills were 5 figures as well.

 

[Peach]

In The Middle? YOU are a danger to this Republic.

YOU are an idiot.

T, police power & the classic "yelling fire in a crowded theater" are the best examples wherein the state may infringe upon PERCEIVED rights.

 

[Sunshine]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Options which are so expensive they cannot participate. Which means there are no options.

Really? Do you have any idea how little it costs to purchase a catastrophic insurance policy that is limited to a $100,000 payout?

That would not be a catastrophic policy. A two week hospitalization costs more than that Just ONE of the meds I'm on costs $100K/year. Every year.. My insurance costs me $2000/year because it I have employer provided insurance. I would not be able to buy a private policy. And 100K would be chicken feed.

One week at Vanderbilt was 52K JUST for the hospital. The doctor bills were 5 figures as well.

Can insurance be expensive? Yes. Does Goergetown require you to buy the most expensive insurance option available? No.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

By the way, did you know the issue is not contraception, it is forcing people who object to them to pay for them.

 

[The T]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

By the way, did you know the issue is not contraception, it is forcing people who object to them to pay for them.

In particuliar? Religious institutions...and affront to the First Amendment.

Courtesy of Obama that doesn't have that power...nor the power to force a private entity to do it either regardless of thier beliefs as he backtracked.

The Constitution is under rabid assault.

 

[Si modo]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

That's fine by me. The federal government is not a religious organization with long-held beliefs against contraception.

 

[earlycuyler]

The way Rush Limbaugh talked about this woman, and the way men on this forum - supposedly men who respect women - should give some idea what it is like for a woman to push the envelope and even go to law school. Let alone step out and use the knowledge for anything. Law school and medical school remain the two bastions of discrimination against women. I lived it every class I was in. I only had two female profs in law school, and the men in the classes simply hated having to take instruction from them. They got one of them fired. They couldn't get the other one fired but not for the lack of trying.

I am very disappointed in the men on here who, without even watching this testimony, have atributed words that were not spoken and a lifestyle which they have pulled out of the air, just because she is a woman who dared speak out. If this had been a male law student the ravings would have been nothing like this. Would rush have called him a 'manho' and then all the guys fall in behind him accusing him of promiscuity? I don't think so. Men don't even chastize their own for 'sewing their wild oats' with or without protection. It is women who are left with the responsibility and burden of this typical male behavior which generally only merits a wink. And there are some things birth control pills are used for which have zip to do with contraception - illnesses.

30 has nothing to do with anything. This is America. I could go enroll to get yet a 4th college degree tomorrow if I wanted to. You would laugh. Others did. They laughed but they didn't have the guts to do what I did, and neither would you. They stopped laughing a long time ago. And the stronger I get at fighting my battles, the more they wish they had gone to school as well.

It also troubles me that people on here cannot see that anyone who has the intestinal fortitude to do so can testify before our government and petition for action. I don't even want to hear about this being a private company she was discussing. None of you pay me any mind when I post about all the administrative regulations in this country we already have because you all think you are hot shot Constitutional scholars and constructors. You know nothing about the real life regs that dictate everything you do even down to where you dump your shit. The people do have all residual powers, and the people - even women - have the right to petition the government for change.

This woman was tastefully dressed in business attire. She was not over made up and she had a very conservative hair style. I thought she presented herself very well did an excellent job. And I am SO disappointed in all of you who claim you don't want women to be treated like muslim women are treated. It would seem to me that is exactly what you want because that would be about the only way she could have been more conservatively dressed.

Some of my friends have behaved very badly, I'm sad to say.

Her testimony was a lie. Even the math does not support her claims. She does not site any specific cases or people to support her claims. A one minute stroll through the planned parenthood website further discredits her claims. This is not about contraception, its about political activism. She is an adult, she is responsible for her health as well as finding and exploiting the vast resources available to woman who cant afford birth control. She is not directing her alleged friend to help, but martyring her in the name of politics. She has been treated with kid gloves compared to other female political activist. The dumb ass put her self out there she will have to deal with it. In the end she will end up the butt of jokes on late night TV as she should.

 

[earlycuyler]

OK. Here's the link.

Sandra Fluke's Controversial Birth Control Testimony - YouTube

It is pretty clear to me that most who are discussing this have not heard her testimony.

False testimony. She and every woman have plenty of free access to all the birth control paid for by tax payers, insurance companies and independent donations.

So you are A-OK with students being mandated to pay for a health insurance policy that pushes a religious agenda. Cool!

Here's a flash for you. That was a PRIVATE health care policy. Not one dime from taxpayers. BUT Every government employee in this country has health care that will pay for birth control!

If they dont want that insurance then they need to not buy it. Planned parenthood offers tax payer funded birth control. They also accept many company's policies. It says clearly on planned parenthood's web site that no woman will be turned away for services. Its the schools prerogative to offer what it does, and refuse what it wants. No one forced this woman to go there, she went there to agitate. False argument. And not a good one for the president.

 

[Seawytch]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

That's fine by me. The federal government is not a religious organization with long-held beliefs against contraception.

Neither, apparently, is Georgetown University. They have no problem allowing contraception in the health plan coverage for faculty and staff, just not for struggling students.

 

[Si modo]

BTW: Did you know that your tax dollars pay for contraceptives for female employees of the federal government?

That's fine by me. The federal government is not a religious organization with long-held beliefs against contraception.

Neither, apparently, is Georgetown University. They have no problem allowing contraception in the health plan coverage for faculty and staff, just not for struggling students.

Of course Georgetown is not a religious organization. It's run by one, though.

And, second time for this request: Please provide the link to support your claim that faculty and staff have coverage provided by Georgetown that includes contraceptives.