What's new
US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Sales Taxes

Supposn

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
2,158
Reaction score
144
Points
85
Sales Taxes:
individuals' annual purchases rather than their paid income taxes, are more accurate indications of their comparative proportional incomes and wealth.
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to income taxes, when levied upon those who do not otherwise pay income taxes, (i.e. upon those of much less or no taxable incomes).
[Depending upon the product purchased and the drafting of the law, sales taxes can to some extent be drafted to effectively be greater or lesser regressive].

At some point increases of tax revenues less justify the economic consequences of the increases; those points differ for different tax schemes and their purposes. It's my opinion those points are of comparatively lesser rates for sales taxes rather than taxes on incomes or upon almost any other matters. I also believe it's desirable for all while in the USA, and all USA citizens to the extent we're able, should be equitably required to contribute to our tax revenues.

Respectfully, Supposn
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
226,530
Reaction score
52,193
Points
2,190
Working people spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. They have to.

The wealthy paying the same sales tax rate as the poor and working class is regressive.
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Working people spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. They have to.

The wealthy paying the same sales tax rate as the poor and working class is regressive.

Your alleged factoid that "working people" are bigger spendthrifts than their more frugal and affluent neighbors is irrelevant even if true.

Spending is an optional activity, no one is forced to pay sales tax as no one is forced to make the purchase.


If we stipulate your allegation is true, maybe the thrift and frugality of wealthy people is why they are wealthy in the first place?
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Working people spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. They have to.

The wealthy paying the same sales tax rate as the poor and working class is regressive.


BTW, most Affluent people work extremely hard. CEO's put in long hours, so do medical doctors and other well paid people. Calling someone who is down on their luck a "working person" is offensive as well as inaccurate. It implies that the highly paid pecker checker who is called out of his bed at 4 a.m. to go to the ER to repair the bladder of someone who was playing "William Tell" with their friend who missed and hit him in the southern hemisphere isn't a "working person" just because he earns a good living is offensive as hell.
 

Penelope

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
52,365
Reaction score
9,365
Points
2,060
Your alleged factoid that "working people" are bigger spendthrifts than their more frugal and affluent neighbors is irrelevant even if true.

No he is alluding to percent for their income. A million dollars a year sniff at sales tax compared for a person on 40 grand a year.
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Want a sales tax?

Put a sales tax on every stock transaction


Stock Transactions are investments, not purchases.

If you did that, investment in business would decline precipitously as well as employment.

So would retirement savings, forcing old timers out of their homes to create discord with their younger relatives.

Ever action has effects, this is where you libs always err. Supposedly taxes on cigarettes were going to pay for children's health care, and it wouldn't cost non-smokers a nickel.

But increasing the taxes reduced the number of smokes sold and money never met expectations. As a result, the decision was a failure as they didn't think it out.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
226,530
Reaction score
52,193
Points
2,190
Want a sales tax?

Put a sales tax on every stock transaction


Stock Transactions are investments, not purchases.

If you did that, investment in business would decline precipitously as well as employment.

So would retirement savings, forcing old timers out of their homes to create discord with their younger relatives.

Ever action has effects, this is where you libs always err. Supposedly taxes on cigarettes were going to pay for children's health care, and it wouldn't cost non-smokers a nickel.

But increasing the taxes reduced the number of smokes sold and money never met expectations. As a result, the decision was a failure as they didn't think it out.
You buy stock. Part of a company
It is still a purchase

Tax it like any other purchase

The super wealthy can avoid taking income. They cannot avoid buying and selling stock.

Best way to tax the wealthy
 

Crepitus

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
51,200
Reaction score
15,167
Points
2,190
Sales Taxes:
individuals' annual purchases rather than their paid income taxes, are more accurate indications of their comparative proportional incomes and wealth.
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to income taxes, when levied upon those who do not otherwise pay income taxes, (i.e. upon those of much less or no taxable incomes).
[Depending upon the product purchased and the drafting of the law, sales taxes can to some extent be drafted to effectively be greater or lesser regressive].

At some point increases of tax revenues less justify the economic consequences of the increases; those points differ for different tax schemes and their purposes. It's my opinion those points are of comparatively lesser rates for sales taxes rather than taxes on incomes or upon almost any other matters. I also believe it's desirable for all while in the USA, and all USA citizens to the extent we're able, should be equitably required to contribute to our tax revenues.

Respectfully, Supposn
Sales taxes are regressive because poor people spend all or most of their money and wealthy folks do not.

Next.
 

Crepitus

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
51,200
Reaction score
15,167
Points
2,190
Your alleged factoid that "working people" are bigger spendthrifts than their more frugal and affluent neighbors is irrelevant even if true
False premise. Nobody said they are "spendthrift". The simple fact is they just spend more of their money to survive.

Next.
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Stock Transactions are investments, not purchases.
Then stop buying and selling them.

Next.

If people stop investing in business, who will provide the money for manufacturing, farming, commerce, mining? Big government? Is a bureaucrat or politician better at determining what a good idea to risk money at than investors in the market.

The idea of punishing people for doing the right thing and saving for their retirement doesn't seem to be very wise. How do you think having millions more impoverished seniors living in the homes of their younger relatives going to work out?
 

Blues Man

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
14,660
Reaction score
4,993
Points
290
Working people spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. They have to.

The wealthy paying the same sales tax rate as the poor and working class is regressive.
Which is why things like groceries clothing ( up to some limit), medicine and utilities shouldn't be taxed.

I think a national sale tax with those exemptions would be very fair.

it would broaden the base and people who avoid income taxes would have to pay

Personally I think it's unethical to tax income.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
226,530
Reaction score
52,193
Points
2,190
Sales Taxes:
individuals' annual purchases rather than their paid income taxes, are more accurate indications of their comparative proportional incomes and wealth.
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to income taxes, when levied upon those who do not otherwise pay income taxes, (i.e. upon those of much less or no taxable incomes).
[Depending upon the product purchased and the drafting of the law, sales taxes can to some extent be drafted to effectively be greater or lesser regressive].

At some point increases of tax revenues less justify the economic consequences of the increases; those points differ for different tax schemes and their purposes. It's my opinion those points are of comparatively lesser rates for sales taxes rather than taxes on incomes or upon almost any other matters. I also believe it's desirable for all while in the USA, and all USA citizens to the extent we're able, should be equitably required to contribute to our tax revenues.

Respectfully, Supposn
Sales taxes are regressive because poor people spend all or most of their money and wealthy folks do not.

Next.
Poor people also pay the same rate as the wealthy. Just what conservatives want on income tax.

Poor and working people have to spend a large percentage of their earnings on purchases
The wealthy can’t buy that much “stuff”
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Working people spend a larger percentage of their income than the wealthy. They have to.

The wealthy paying the same sales tax rate as the poor and working class is regressive.
Which is why things like groceries clothing ( up to some limit), medicine and utilities shouldn't be taxed.

I think a national sale tax with those exemptions would be very fair.

it would broaden the base and people who avoid income taxes would have to pay

Personally I think it's unethical to tax income.


Taxing income put a huge burden on the taxpayers.

Every year, every citizen has to complete a form to send to the government making an accounting of their entire productive lives and sign it under oath.

Hell of a burden, not to mention an invasion of privacy.

A lot easier just to have taxation added to the price of what you are buying. The money is the same to the government in both cases, but the income tax is a lot more burdensome as far as procedure to the citizens.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
226,530
Reaction score
52,193
Points
2,190
Stock Transactions are investments, not purchases.
Then stop buying and selling them.

Next.

If people stop investing in business, who will provide the money for manufacturing, farming, commerce, mining? Big government? Is a bureaucrat or politician better at determining what a good idea to risk money at than investors in the market.

The idea of punishing people for doing the right thing and saving for their retirement doesn't seem to be very wise. How do you think having millions more impoverished seniors living in the homes of their younger relatives going to work out?
You think a one percent tax on stock transactions will stop the, from buying? They already pay more than that in brokerage fees
The wealthy can hide their income and capital gains. They can’t stop investing their money and buying and selling huge quantities
 

Blues Man

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
14,660
Reaction score
4,993
Points
290
Sales Taxes:
individuals' annual purchases rather than their paid income taxes, are more accurate indications of their comparative proportional incomes and wealth.
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to income taxes, when levied upon those who do not otherwise pay income taxes, (i.e. upon those of much less or no taxable incomes).
[Depending upon the product purchased and the drafting of the law, sales taxes can to some extent be drafted to effectively be greater or lesser regressive].

At some point increases of tax revenues less justify the economic consequences of the increases; those points differ for different tax schemes and their purposes. It's my opinion those points are of comparatively lesser rates for sales taxes rather than taxes on incomes or upon almost any other matters. I also believe it's desirable for all while in the USA, and all USA citizens to the extent we're able, should be equitably required to contribute to our tax revenues.

Respectfully, Supposn
Sales taxes are regressive because poor people spend all or most of their money and wealthy folks do not.

Next.
Poor people also pay the same rate as the wealthy. Just what conservatives want on income tax.

Poor and working people have to spend a large percentage of their earnings on purchases
The wealthy can’t buy that much “stuff”
Wealthy people buy a larger quantity of and more expensive goods so they would pay more sales taxes.

Just as with a flat tax on income. And besides actual poor people pay zero income tax anyway so your argument is moot.

Get rid of all the deductions and tools for evasion that are written into our tax code and reduce the bureaucracy.
 

Blues Man

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
14,660
Reaction score
4,993
Points
290
Stock Transactions are investments, not purchases.
Then stop buying and selling them.

Next.

If people stop investing in business, who will provide the money for manufacturing, farming, commerce, mining? Big government? Is a bureaucrat or politician better at determining what a good idea to risk money at than investors in the market.

The idea of punishing people for doing the right thing and saving for their retirement doesn't seem to be very wise. How do you think having millions more impoverished seniors living in the homes of their younger relatives going to work out?
You think a one percent tax on stock transactions will stop the, from buying? They already pay more than that in brokerage fees
The wealthy can hide their income and capital gains. They can’t stop investing their money and buying and selling huge quantities

Not everyone pays brokerage fees.

I sure as hell don't

And you can't hide capital gains to avoid taxes. If you sell an asset for a profit you will pay the CG tax.
 

Polishprince

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
30,926
Reaction score
16,847
Points
1,915
Sales Taxes:
individuals' annual purchases rather than their paid income taxes, are more accurate indications of their comparative proportional incomes and wealth.
Sales taxes are only regressive in comparison to income taxes, when levied upon those who do not otherwise pay income taxes, (i.e. upon those of much less or no taxable incomes).
[Depending upon the product purchased and the drafting of the law, sales taxes can to some extent be drafted to effectively be greater or lesser regressive].

At some point increases of tax revenues less justify the economic consequences of the increases; those points differ for different tax schemes and their purposes. It's my opinion those points are of comparatively lesser rates for sales taxes rather than taxes on incomes or upon almost any other matters. I also believe it's desirable for all while in the USA, and all USA citizens to the extent we're able, should be equitably required to contribute to our tax revenues.

Respectfully, Supposn
Sales taxes are regressive because poor people spend all or most of their money and wealthy folks do not.

Next.
Poor people also pay the same rate as the wealthy. Just what conservatives want on income tax.

Poor and working people have to spend a large percentage of their earnings on purchases
The wealthy can’t buy that much “stuff”


Actually, you have things half ass backwards.

Wealthy people buy a lot more stuff and a lot more expensive stuff. Very few poor people buying Bentleys, they are saving money by looking for a used Yugo instead.
 

rightwinger

Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
226,530
Reaction score
52,193
Points
2,190
Wealthy people buy a larger quantity of and more expensive goods so they would pay more sales taxes.

They still end up paying a much smaller portion of their total income
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$350.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top