RWs, how do we fix our shitty healthcare system?

[Redfish]

To the OP. The USA has the best medical system in the world. There was nothing wrong with it before obozocare. There was no crisis, no one was refused medical treatment. Those who paid for insurance subsidized those who did not------------exactly like what is happening under obozocare-------------except now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy which is causing premiums and deductibles to go up drastically. AND, there are just as many uninsured now as there were before ACA, its just a different list of names.

Our medical system is "shittier" now than it was before obozocare.

 

[Redfish]

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.


Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Really? How is an exemption theft?

LOL, I cant wait for that answer.

I know, me either..... seems to me that would only work if t he government was entitled to 100% of your income.

that's what the libtards think, all income should go to the wonderful government who will dole it back to us as it sees fit.

"to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" Marx

Sounds great, but it never works, never has, never will.

 

[g5000]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Really? How is an exemption theft?

Someone else has to make up the difference. I've explained this a million times to you willfully blind tards.

Deductions, credits, and exemptions are paid for by higher tax rates. Everyone is being taxed at higher rates because of them.

Theft. Leeching. Redistribution of wealth. Government gifts. Behavioral control. The whole fucking bogus sack of stolen swag.

 

[Flopper]

Get rid of the arcane middle ages billing processes, make costs straight forward and accountable. Like when you get your car or furnace worked on, no more games. Obama was dancing around this with his so called "Affordable" health care. Obama lied a little bit. Neither affordable nor healthy.

What do you mean by arcane middle ages billing processes?

THEY know, they know. Nobody else does.

They get lots of info from the hospitals and Big Pharm with ACA. Next they can use it for regulation.

YOU SAID a mouthful.. "use it for regulation"!

Did you ever think that there may be too much regulation???
-- The International Classification of Diseases version 10 (ICD-10) contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.
That’s a 712 percent increase over the 19,817 code sets in the currently used ICD-9 version.
--- As we have noted before, physicians are already spending 22 percent of their time interacting with insurers on formularies, claims, billing, credentialing,
pre-authorizations, and quality measure data. The workload can only increase with the new codes.
Healthcare Is Turning Into An Industry Focused On Compliance, Regulation Rather Than Patient Care

How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
More than 18 months in the making, the report identified six major areas of waste:
unnecessary services ($210 billion annually);
inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion);
excess administrative costs ($190 billion);
inflated prices ($105 billion);
prevention failures ($55 billion), and
fraud ($75 billion).
Adjusting for some overlap among the categories, the panel settled on an estimate of $750 billion.

Your post seems to be a general rant about healthcare.
FYI, ICD codes have nothing to do with government regulations. ICD (International Classification of Disease) listing assigns a code to essentially every know disease and all medically recognized treatments. Without ICD codes, computerized claim processing and billing would be virtually impossible. The ICD as we know it has been around for over a 150 years.

Most of what we call waste in the healthcare industry is unavoidable in American healthcare because there is no way of determine the full cost of diagnosis and treatment or whether it will be successful until after the services have been rendered. Furthermore, it's the people that are selling the service who actually determine the need for service. Pre-authorization is usually just a formality that delays the rendering of the service. The problem is fee for service which encourages waste and over-utilization.

 

[g5000]

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Really? How is an exemption theft?

LOL, I cant wait for that answer.

I know, me either..... seems to me that would only work if t he government was entitled to 100% of your income.

that's what the libtards think, all income should go to the wonderful government who will dole it back to us as it sees fit.

"to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" Marx

Sounds great, but it never works, never has, never will.

Then stop stealing. Stop supporting theft. Stop supporting higher tax rates so the leeches can get their credits, exemptions, and deductions.

 

[regent]

In a democracy with a two party system the first operation is just to get a health care bill passed, from that time on improvements are made, coverage extended and so forth. Check the history of Social Security, it was once the communist, socialist downfall of America.

 

[g5000]

The tax expenditure leeches scream as loudly as any other entitlement-minded welfare queen when you talk about taking away their government gifts so everyone else can pay less taxes.

This is one of many reasons I call such people pseudo-conservatives. They have no clue the elimination of tax expenditures is a longstanding, hardcore conservative principle.

 

[SmokeALib]

Kick the Dims out of the white house.

 

[healthmyths]

Get rid of the arcane middle ages billing processes, make costs straight forward and accountable. Like when you get your car or furnace worked on, no more games. Obama was dancing around this with his so called "Affordable" health care. Obama lied a little bit. Neither affordable nor healthy.

What do you mean by arcane middle ages billing processes?

THEY know, they know. Nobody else does.

They get lots of info from the hospitals and Big Pharm with ACA. Next they can use it for regulation.

YOU SAID a mouthful.. "use it for regulation"!

Did you ever think that there may be too much regulation???
-- The International Classification of Diseases version 10 (ICD-10) contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.
That’s a 712 percent increase over the 19,817 code sets in the currently used ICD-9 version.
--- As we have noted before, physicians are already spending 22 percent of their time interacting with insurers on formularies, claims, billing, credentialing,
pre-authorizations, and quality measure data. The workload can only increase with the new codes.
Healthcare Is Turning Into An Industry Focused On Compliance, Regulation Rather Than Patient Care

How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
More than 18 months in the making, the report identified six major areas of waste:
unnecessary services ($210 billion annually);
inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion);
excess administrative costs ($190 billion);
inflated prices ($105 billion);
prevention failures ($55 billion), and
fraud ($75 billion).
Adjusting for some overlap among the categories, the panel settled on an estimate of $750 billion.

Your post seems to be a general rant about healthcare.
FYI, ICD codes have nothing to do with government regulations. ICD (International Classification of Disease) listing assigns a code to essentially every know disease and all medically recognized treatments. Without ICD codes, computerized claim processing and billing would be virtually impossible. The ICD as we know it has been around for over a 150 years.

Most of what we call waste in the healthcare industry is unavoidable in American healthcare because there is no way of determine the full cost of diagnosis and treatment or whether it will be successful until after the services have been rendered. Furthermore, it's the people that are selling the service who actually determine the need for service. Pre-authorization is usually just a formality that delays the rendering of the service. The problem is fee for service which encourages waste and over-utilization.

So you have NO problem with what doctors have told us are over $850 billion a year in duplicate testing, referrals, all out of fear of lawsuits? You think they made that up?

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

 

[Billy000]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

competition, dingworthy. When companies compete, prices go down. When insurance companies compete across state lines, prices will go down.

The other thing that would help drug prices would be to reduce the length of patents, get generics in the market sooner.

More competition would help to a small degree, but there is no way that would be enough. In fact there's evidence that competing across state lines wouldn't do anything at all. Our healthcare system is a business like any other. Where is the incentive for them to lower the cost of premiums, prescriptions, and deductibles dramatically when they are making 10s of billions in profit every year from it? These prices have not stopped increasing for decades.

 

[forkup]

What do you mean by arcane middle ages billing processes?

THEY know, they know. Nobody else does.

They get lots of info from the hospitals and Big Pharm with ACA. Next they can use it for regulation.

YOU SAID a mouthful.. "use it for regulation"!

Did you ever think that there may be too much regulation???
-- The International Classification of Diseases version 10 (ICD-10) contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.
That’s a 712 percent increase over the 19,817 code sets in the currently used ICD-9 version.
--- As we have noted before, physicians are already spending 22 percent of their time interacting with insurers on formularies, claims, billing, credentialing,
pre-authorizations, and quality measure data. The workload can only increase with the new codes.
Healthcare Is Turning Into An Industry Focused On Compliance, Regulation Rather Than Patient Care

How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
How the U.S. Health-Care System Wastes $750 Billion Annually
More than 18 months in the making, the report identified six major areas of waste:
unnecessary services ($210 billion annually);
inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion);
excess administrative costs ($190 billion);
inflated prices ($105 billion);
prevention failures ($55 billion), and
fraud ($75 billion).
Adjusting for some overlap among the categories, the panel settled on an estimate of $750 billion.

Your post seems to be a general rant about healthcare.
FYI, ICD codes have nothing to do with government regulations. ICD (International Classification of Disease) listing assigns a code to essentially every know disease and all medically recognized treatments. Without ICD codes, computerized claim processing and billing would be virtually impossible. The ICD as we know it has been around for over a 150 years.

Most of what we call waste in the healthcare industry is unavoidable in American healthcare because there is no way of determine the full cost of diagnosis and treatment or whether it will be successful until after the services have been rendered. Furthermore, it's the people that are selling the service who actually determine the need for service. Pre-authorization is usually just a formality that delays the rendering of the service. The problem is fee for service which encourages waste and over-utilization.

So you have NO problem with what doctors have told us are over $850 billion a year in duplicate testing, referrals, all out of fear of lawsuits? You think they made that up?

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the
1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were they? Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Tort reform!

I'm from Belgium wy wife's American, so I speak from first hand experience and in the US there are alot of costs that we simply don't have. No need for advertising for instance, there simply wouldn't be any point. Alot of jobs you guys need to keep those umpteen insurance companies administratively running, pharmecy tech's spring to mind immediatly. No wait for meds because they don't have to call the insurance company to ask if they cover said meds. No let's sue the doctor mentality. In short we don't have most of those things wich have nothing to do with the core business of providing healthcare and drive up cost unneccessarily. Resulting in a more efficient, cheaper system.

 

[Flopper]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how would you go about doing that? There are 35 health insurance companies in the US that provide either directly or through subsidiaries, 99% of all private health insurance. In the 1980's and 90's the number of companies in the US were increasing but by the 2000, mergers and acquisitions began reducing the competition. In 2009, the industry seem to freeze mergers and acquisitions waiting to see the effects of Obamacare. However, the parts of law designed to increase competition has failed to do so. Now with the law fully implemented, the industry is pursuing mergers and acquisitions once again with a vengeance.

The federal government is prohibited by law from taking any action and therefore it is up to the state insurance commissions. The problem is state insurance commission are political and most of them are heavily influenced by companies doing business in their state and are not likely to take any action.

 

[forkup]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how would you go about doing that? There are 35 health insurance companies in the US that provide either directly or through subsidiaries, 99% of all private health insurance. In the 1980's and 90's the number of companies in the US were increasing but by the 2000, mergers and acquisitions began reducing the competition. In 2009, the industry seem to freeze mergers and acquisitions waiting to see the effects of Obamacare. However, the parts of law designed to increase competition has failed to do so. Now with the law fully implemented, the industry is pursuing mergers and acquisitions once again with a vengeance.

The federal government is prohibited by law from taking any action and therefore it is up to the state insurance commissions. The problem is state insurance commission are political and most of them are heavily influenced by companies doing business in their state and are not likely to take any action.

I'm always amazed really, how so many Americans believe that the free market is a cure for everything. In my opinion there are certain area's where 'for profit' shouldn't be applicable. Health and education being the best examples. Private companies have no business profiting from persons misfortune. Every penny a company takes in profit is a penny that excludes ppl from receiving care.

 

[Londoner]

First, you have to define what you mean by "fixing health care".

ObamaCare is the Republican solution. It was developed by a Republican Think Tank and advanced by Bob Dole. It feeds people into a privately run system, and it provides subsidies to the poor, and has regulations about pre-existing conditions.

But the current Republican Party doesn't like it because the lion share of their donations come from Health Insurance Providers. These people want a health care system that devotes more resources to denying coverage to the sick than providing competitive pricing to hard working American Families.

This is completely rational for profit makers, right? Their profit goes down when they have to spend the money they take in on treating sick people. The key to profit is by raising premiums while at the same time creating ingenious methods for reducing who and what conditions get covered. My brother in law worked for a large provider for years. His job was to analyze patient data in order to assign a risk level to each person. Once the higher risk pool was identified, the goal was to create volumes of small print to deny coverage to their conditions, if they happened to get coverage in the first place. (And you thought their resources and innovations went into actually providing quality health care? Silly Rabbit)

In short, the Republicans will go back to this kind of system, where a handful of state protected monopolies have the legislative and regulatory context to increase premiums and decrease coverage. This is how the profit motive fucks the consumer.

FYI: Reagan promised the opposite, claiming that the free market would operate in the interest of consumers as opposed to serving a rentier class who funded our elections. We got Punk'd, but there is no way to explain this to Republicans since their information sources are funded by the most powerful special interest machine in our history.

 

[PredFan]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

You didn't specifically mention prescriptions. Competition will lower Heath insurance costs, as far a prescriptions go, I'm not sure if the GOP plan on that. I'm sure there is one.

 

[Billy000]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

You didn't specifically mention prescriptions. Competition will lower Heath insurance costs, as far a prescriptions go, I'm not sure if the GOP plan on that. I'm sure there is one.

Competition would not be nearly enough to bring costs down. We are talking about 10s of billions of profit per year. Why would they give that up? They might lower their prices with more competition, but they would never dramatically reduce their prices which is what's needed. Hell if anything the completion would just keep prices from increasing further which again would mean shit for making healthcare affordable for poor people.

 

[PredFan]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

You didn't specifically mention prescriptions. Competition will lower Heath insurance costs, as far a prescriptions go, I'm not sure if the GOP plan on that. I'm sure there is one.

Competition would not be nearly enough to bring costs down. We are talking about 10s of billions of profit per year. Why would they give that up? They might lower their prices with more competition, but they would never dramatically reduce their prices which is what's needed. Hell if anything the completion would just keep prices from increasing further which again would mean shit for making healthcare affordable for poor people.

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

 

[Billy000]

Ok so you hate ObamaCare. Whatever. You hate anything Obama comes up with so you come across like disingenuous douche bags anyway.

How do we fix our healthcare woes? What, exactly, should be done to curb the increasing cost to the consumer of healthcare costs while wages have remained flat? Keep in mind that healthcare costs have been increasing long before ObamaCare. With that in mind, why was our healthcare system ever feasible?

Just agree that legislation is what's needed to cap expenses such as prescriptions. In the end more socialization is what's needed to fix our system. Despite what the Neanderthals on Fox News will tell you, Canada's healthcare system works. 91% of Canadians favor their system over the US's system. Western Europe also has great, affordable healthcare systems.

Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

WHO | World Health Organization Assesses the World's Health Systems

"The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy."

Yes medical care here is sophisticated, but that hardly means jack shit if most Americans can't benefit from it.

We have been answering this question since before Obamacare. Get rid of the regulations that favor the industry and open up health insurance to the forces of the free market. Problem solved.

And how, in anyway, would that lower the cost of medical services like prescriptions?

You didn't specifically mention prescriptions. Competition will lower Heath insurance costs, as far a prescriptions go, I'm not sure if the GOP plan on that. I'm sure there is one.

Competition would not be nearly enough to bring costs down. We are talking about 10s of billions of profit per year. Why would they give that up? They might lower their prices with more competition, but they would never dramatically reduce their prices which is what's needed. Hell if anything the completion would just keep prices from increasing further which again would mean shit for making healthcare affordable for poor people.

Absolutely untrue. Competition would do it, but I don't expect you to agree, because that would end your rant against the GOP. You asked the question, I have you the answer. You don't like the answer? Hey, I can't force you to learn anything.

I don't deny that competition would help. My point is that wouldn't nearly be enough. It is a for profit system. That means poor people are going to get the shaft. Deductibles, premiums, and prescription costs have only increased the last couple of decades while wages remained flat. At this rate, many in the middle class won't be able to afford basic treatment for cancer. Poor people sure as hell cant. The best we can hope for is prices to stabilize but even that wouldn't be enough to fix the problem.

 

[Redfish]

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Really? How is an exemption theft?

LOL, I cant wait for that answer.

I know, me either..... seems to me that would only work if t he government was entitled to 100% of your income.

that's what the libtards think, all income should go to the wonderful government who will dole it back to us as it sees fit.

"to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" Marx

Sounds great, but it never works, never has, never will.

Then stop stealing. Stop supporting theft. Stop supporting higher tax rates so the leeches can get their credits, exemptions, and deductions.

the exemptions and deductions were put in the tax code by congress to incentivize certain behaviors and investments. i.e. buying a home, investing in energy discovery, giving money to charities.

Most of the tax code was written by liberal democrats who have controlled congress for most of the last 80 years.

But I agree with you, everyone should pay the same tax rate regardless of how much money they make. That would be "fair". Why don't you support any of the flat tax plans?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Also are you in favor then of ALL employer insurance programs to be eliminated?

I am. Not banned, though. It should be up to the employer what benefits they choose to give to their employees.

If so that would eliminate the single largest tax write-off ... See this table: $171 billion in tax write off by employers for health insurance.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. I said take away the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance. The money an employer is spending on employee insurance is employee income, and right now it is exempt from income tax. It shouldn't be.

It is government interference in the free market, and it is massively distorting the market as a result, bending the cost curve up. It is government wealth redistribution and behavior modification.

Taking away the tax exemption will dis-incentivize employers from sponsoring health insurance, which should be the goal.

Well that's what Trump is after to give the employees their OWN tax deductible health insurance, which is fine with me!
From Trump's health plan...Healthcare Reform

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.
Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?
As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance.
We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

I am opposed to all tax exemptions. They are federal subsidies and need to go away, period. There should be NO tax exemptions for employers or employees. They are theft from other people's pockets.

Really? How is an exemption theft?

Someone else has to make up the difference. I've explained this a million times to you willfully blind tards.

Deductions, credits, and exemptions are paid for by higher tax rates. Everyone is being taxed at higher rates because of them.

Theft. Leeching. Redistribution of wealth. Government gifts. Behavioral control. The whole fucking bogus sack of stolen swag.

You know, once in your life could you answer a question that has been posed in a quite civil fashion without being such a jerk? And the thought that if Bob takes the home mortgage deduction, Sally's taxes go up, is absurd.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd rather see them all done away with but for a much more practical reason; I don't think we need to be influencing people's behaviour via the tax code.