Russians Can never afford to leave an independent Ukraine

[Dayton3]

Consider this, if the Russians ever call it a day and leave the war with Ukraine and Ukraine is still independent, there will be nothing to stop Ukraine from acquiring major weapons from the west along with the training and logistical support for them. Weapons that would eat the Russians alive in a future war.

Forget the proposed Mig-29 transfer, imagine Ukraine with 100 or so F-15s or F-16s or even F-35.

Forget the Javelin anti tank missiles, imagine the Ukrainians equipped with hundreds of M-1 Abrams tanks.

Forget the Stinger man portable SAMs, imagine Ukraine with hundreds of conventionally equipped Tomahawk cruise missiles that could strike targets all across European Russia.

In short, if Russia steps back now, Ukraine will very quickly become the mortal threat they have wanted to pretend it was.

 

[francoHFW]

Consider this, if the Russians ever call it a day and leave the war with Ukraine and Ukraine is still independent, there will be nothing to stop Ukraine from acquiring major weapons from the west along with the training and logistical support for them. Weapons that would eat the Russians alive in a future war.

Forget the proposed Mig-29 transfer, imagine Ukraine with 100 or so F-15s or F-16s or even F-35.

Forget the Javelin anti tank missiles, imagine the Ukrainians equipped with hundreds of M-1 Abrams tanks.

Forget the Stinger man portable SAMs, imagine Ukraine with hundreds of conventionally equipped Tomahawk cruise missiles that could strike targets all across European Russia.

In short, if Russia steps back now, Ukraine will very quickly become the mortal threat they have wanted to pretend it was.

Wars are over, get out of the 20th century...more democracy is the answer...

 

[Dayton3]

Wars are over, get out of the 20th century...more democracy is the answer...

Not everyone believes that.

 

[Sunni Man]

Putin isn't going to leave Ukraine until he has meet all of his objectives and made it a vassal state to Russia. ...

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Consider this, if the Russians ever call it a day and leave the war with Ukraine and Ukraine is still independent, there will be nothing to stop Ukraine from acquiring major weapons from the west along with the training and logistical support for them. Weapons that would eat the Russians alive in a future war.

Forget the proposed Mig-29 transfer, imagine Ukraine with 100 or so F-15s or F-16s or even F-35.

Forget the Javelin anti tank missiles, imagine the Ukrainians equipped with hundreds of M-1 Abrams tanks.

Forget the Stinger man portable SAMs, imagine Ukraine with hundreds of conventionally equipped Tomahawk cruise missiles that could strike targets all across European Russia.

In short, if Russia steps back now, Ukraine will very quickly become the mortal threat they have wanted to pretend it was.

What a bunch of idiocy.

The only danger an independent, well armed Ukraine poses to Russia is the ability to stop them if they ever attempt to invade again.

The excuse making for and kissing of Putin's ass constantly by a few people here in the US is deeply disturbing especially from those who claim to be Republicans or Conservatives.

Russia has always wanted Ukraine's natural resources and this is the fourth time in just over a hundred years they've attempted to take them by force.

Give Ukraine whatever they need in the form of conventional weapons and logistical support to chase the Bear back to Moscow and keep him from ever returning.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Putin isn't going to leave Ukraine until he has meet all of his objectives and made it a vassal state to Russia. ...

Oh he's going to leave, it's just a question of how much he's going to lose in terms of his military manpower and equipment before he has to.

In under six weeks he's lost twice what they lost in a decade in Afghanistan.

These are not people who will ever accept defeat even if their only means to continue the fight is living like rats in sewers and ambushing Russian occupation forces one man at a time and beating them to death with their bear hands.

 

[Silver Cat]

Wars are over, get out of the 20th century...more democracy is the answer...

It depends on your definition of democracy. What is democracy - discrimination of ethnic minorities, extrajudicial killings and confiscation of property, suppression of any political opposition or just paying money for Biden's family and his clique?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Wars are over, get out of the 20th century...more democracy is the answer...

Brilliant. How do you turn a nation democratic that is ruled by an iron fisted tyrant who will not allow legitimate free elections if not by force?

 

[Silver Cat]

Oh he's going to leave, it's just a question of how much he's going to lose in terms of his military manpower and equipment before he has to.

In under six weeks he's lost twice what they lost in a decade in Afghanistan.

These are not people who will ever accept defeat even if their only means to continue the fight is living like rats in sewers and ambushing Russian occupation forces one man at a time and beating them to death with their bear hands.

Actually, Russia conquere so called "Ukrainian lands" quite regularly and most of Ukrainians accepted the rule of Novgorod, Moscow or St. Petersburg quite easily.

 

[Silver Cat]

Brilliant. How do you turn a nation democratic that is ruled by an iron fisted tyrant who will not allow legitimate free elections if not by force?

Do you mean Putin or Zelenskiy?

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Do you mean Putin or Zelenskiy?

Zelensky was elected in an actual free election so you seem to have a problem here.

 

[Dayton3]

What a bunch of idiocy.

The only danger an independent, well armed Ukraine poses to Russia is the ability to stop them if they ever attempt to invade again.

The excuse making for and kissing of Putin's ass constantly by a few people here in the US is deeply disturbing especially from those who claim to be Republicans or Conservatives.

Russia has always wanted Ukraine's natural resources and this is the fourth time in just over a hundred years they've attempted to take them by force.

Give Ukraine whatever they need in the form of conventional weapons and logistical support to chase the Bear back to Moscow and keep him from ever returning.

You don't know that I'm on Ukraine's side in this conflict did you?

 

[Sunni Man]

Zelensky was elected in an actual free election

So was Putin.

 

[Silver Cat]

Zelensky was elected in an actual free election so you seem to have a problem here.

Of course those elections were not actually free, because real opposition was already supressed by extrajudicial killings.

 

[Silver Cat]

You don't know that I'm on Ukraine's side in this conflict did you?

So, do you mean, that you are not on the American side?

 

[francoHFW]

Not everyone believes that.

authoritarians...and fuque them...

 

[AZrailwhale]

Wars are over, get out of the 20th century...more democracy is the answer...

Democracy is not a form of government that can be easily adopted. It has taken the US nearly three hundred years to adopt it and it’s still a struggle every day. If anything, we are losing ground when nearly fifty percent of voters doubt the honesty of the last presidential election. To make things worse, the party in power has done nothing to convince the doubters that the next election will be more honest. Countries with authoritarian pasts can’t throw a switch and change the thought patterns of hundreds of years overnight. The best they can hope for in benevolent dictatorships. The Western European democracies also struggle, but they don’t seem to be as badly split over po,itical diffetences.

 

[francoHFW]

Do you mean Putin or Zelenskiy?

bit of a brainwashed russian aren't you?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Actually, Russia conquere so called "Ukrainian lands" quite regularly and most of Ukrainians accepted the rule of Novgorod, Moscow or St. Petersburg quite easily.

Tell that to the tens of thousands dead Russian soldiers.

 

[francoHFW]

Democracy is not a form of government that can be easily adopted. It has taken the US nearly three hundred years to adopt it and it’s still a struggle every day. If anything, we are losing ground when nearly fifty percent of voters doubt the honesty of the last presidential election. To make things worse, the party in power has done nothing to convince the doubters that the next election will be more honest. Countries with authoritarian pasts can’t throw a switch and change the thought patterns of hundreds of years overnight. The best they can hope for in benevolent dictatorships. The Western European democracies also struggle, but they don’t seem to be as badly split over po,itical diffetences.

We have a terrible GOP/Trump/Murdoch misinformation problem...It's a Putin Trump Strongman BS thing...