russian pre ak 47?

[eagleseven]

I would fire the thing at arms length...volksturm weaponry was as dangerous to the poor users, as the enemy.

Then again, I'm a touch bit paranoid at times...

 

[CrimsonWhite]

is that all you got ring? come on now? you can do better....ww 2, right? so it is not a turkish gun

but is really german.....any other pics needed...

By the pictures you provided it does not appear to be Turkish. Two dead giveaways are the cut in the stock for a sling and the obvious shape of the 'erased' Nazi waffenmark as well as what looks to be the early German eagle waffenmark on the barrel. Turkish Kars did not have any of the above items.
It is a WWI barrel and receiver/bolt fitted in a WWII K98 stock. My best educated guess is it was issued to a Volkstrum unit in the last weeks of WWII. If it came to your father via Russia then it was 'liberated' buy a Russian soldier then probably traded or sold to a GI some time after the war and before the start of the cold war.

After seeing the markings, I concur.

 

[Gunny]

this thing is totally jury rigged to our standards...with the bolt pulled back the bottom plate jumps up...we figure the weight of the bullet pushed it down....anyho..thats about it...and there are of course pictures. which are loading....do you see the grass? remember when i was all about hiring the kid for 7 bucks an hour...welll that is what y ou get

That's a knock-off Mauser '98. The Springfield '03 is a knock off of the Mauser as well.

The prototype AK-47 was the German MP-42. It was "the" original assault rifle upon which most modern assault rifles are based.

 

[strollingbones]

i will tell kidlet all we have discovered....i have a friend who is a collector...i will get him to referr a gun smith that doesnt gossip...

i have to buy a gun safe now....i told the kidlet since they are his...he cant have them till he has a gun safe..so he said i can keep them till he gets one....knowing damned well i will need one

 

[strollingbones]

what do you mean "knock off"

 

[strollingbones]

okay told kidlet that there may be a swakita under heel.....of course we had to find out....nothing...

 

[Ringel05]

what do you mean "knock off"

A "knock off" is a copy. Not in this case, yours is not a knock off.

 

[Ringel05]

okay told kidlet that there may be a swakita under heel.....of course we had to find out....nothing...

Anything with a swastika would have been removed, especially by the Russians. If you can locate the serial number it should be on the barrel, receiver, bolt and even on the firing pin. If you take the stock off and look where the barrel/receiver sits there should be a serial number there also, it may or may not be the same.

 

[westwall]

First off the rifle is a K98k which stands for Karabiner 98 kurz. Which means it is a Model 1898 rifle (gewher) that was then shortened to the new standard (as of 1933 I think but I could be off by a couple of years) making it the kurz (short) model of th rifle. Additionally it was manufactured by ce which is the WWII code for J.P. Sauer & Sohn Gewehrfabrik of Suhl which came into use in 1940. It has a replacement straight bolt that came from an earlier rifle in all probability, though it could also conceivably be from a Turkish or Czech, or Polish rifle as well. They all used straight bolts in preferance to the bent bolts.

Secondly the Russians left the nazi markings on them for the most part. They had quite lieterally millions of them and they refinished them but for the most part left the markings alone. The Israelis ended up with a bunch of them and they were used to equip the Haganah and up till about 1950 they still had the nazi marks on them as well. The markings were almost all removed by the end of 1950 and when the rifles were rebarreled to 7.62X51NATO in 1955 all remaining marks were removed.

Serial numbers were on all major assemblies of the rifle but were not on the firing pin or extractors as those parts would break and have to be replaced on a not infrequent basis. But all the screws on the early manufactured rifles, all the barrel bands etc. would be marked with the last two digits of the serial number.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

 

[strollingbones]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

okay next thread title on guns will simply be....what the fuck? happy now lol

 

[PatekPhilippe]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

okay next thread title on guns will simply be....what the fuck? happy now lol

Hey c'mon now....I was only making a gun nut observation .... no offense was intended...

 

[strollingbones]

o no offense taken.....you should know better....it has been amazing all the imput i have recieved...hell i need to go home and find more stuff....my next goal is to find the coins....there should be two german beer steins full of coins....i cant find them...i am hoping they are in safe deposit boxes...i think that is where i last saw them...the steins full of coins were just placed in safe deposit boxes...

i assure you ...you never want to have to 'close' a home. its just plain tough work....you have this finds but mostly its just sad..do the memories hit the shredder or what? over and over...what do you keep of someone's life?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

o no offense taken.....you should know better....it has been amazing all the imput i have recieved...hell i need to go home and find more stuff....my next goal is to find the coins....there should be two german beer steins full of coins....i cant find them...i am hoping they are in safe deposit boxes...i think that is where i last saw them...the steins full of coins were just placed in safe deposit boxes...

i assure you ...you never want to have to 'close' a home. its just plain tough work....you have this finds but mostly its just sad..do the memories hit the shredder or what? over and over...what do you keep of someone's life?

I have a rather extensive collection of American coins dating from the early 1800's to the present and I'm a member of the American Numismatic Association. You keep what is important to your family history and sentimental stuff....

 

[strollingbones]

you know i lied...i did keep something when my father died....a turtle ashtray....its medal...a turtle but where the shell would be is indented for the ashes...he had it in vietnam....i knew with my father dying of lung cancer and all....plus heart problems...that mom would toss it...my father carried the stupid thing for 2 tours...its sitting here next to the keyboard...

how do you render memories.....its amazing....i was gonna just take a few pics off the wall...da man is telling me...take only what you cant live without....i took all the family pics that were framed and hanging....i will go back and get the rest soon...

 

[Ringel05]

you know i lied...i did keep something when my father died....a turtle ashtray....its medal...a turtle but where the shell would be is indented for the ashes...he had it in vietnam....i knew with my father dying of lung cancer and all....plus heart problems...that mom would toss it...my father carried the stupid thing for 2 tours...its sitting here next to the keyboard...

how do you render memories.....its amazing....i was gonna just take a few pics off the wall...da man is telling me...take only what you cant live without....i took all the family pics that were framed and hanging....i will go back and get the rest soon...

I remember those. If he took it with him on two tours then it was probably his "good luck" charm.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I have two boxes of photographs in the back room. I got tired of scanning them. But I spent weeks doing it back in the day. My dad loved taking scenery pictures, but I have no references for any of them.

Also the slides. Hundreds of slides. Sometimes you have to go through 30 boxes to find one that has good stuff on it. But that one box you don't want to miss.

And we go weird when we get elderly. And secretive. you have to go through everything because they hide cash.

 

[strollingbones]

o the hide cash thing...so far no cash has been found....we did find a hustler between the boxsprings and mattress...and no we dont even wanna go there...

but i know she hid cash and i think i know where....but so far...empty handed...i have to go back...i dread it so much...but its a trip i have to make...i can only stand being there for a few hours....alt is saying she will go with me and help pack....just pack...and start getting it together...

the front walk in will be the big mystery...it just is stacked to the ceiling...i pulled the ammo case out of the stack and nothing moved....the hole is still there...so are the 100 or so sets of salt/pepper shakers.....3 sets of china....1 tea set...but i need to start packing it up...she is never returning to that house...now where the hell am i gonna put all this stuff...the son refuses to take much...he wants to travel light...possesion make that hard to do....

 

[westwall]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

OK, I am going to be a little bit of a dickhead but I must in the interest of factual data and correct you on one thing, the STG 44 was not the first assault rifle on the planet. The MKb42 was the first assault rifle. It was made by two different manufacturers hence the terminology of MKb42(W) for Walther and MKb42(H) for Haenel. They were slightly different in design and the OKW sent both examples (approximately 7,800 of each) to the Eastern Front in 1942 for field trials. Based on those experiences the Haenel design won and it's modified form took on the name MP43. It was subsequently modified into the MP44 (of which I used to own two) and finally after Hitler had heard so much about this new machine pistol (which the developers had had to call it because Hitler had told them to discontinue its development) he gave it the name Sturmgeweher (assault rifle) and the rest as they say is history. Pictured below is the MKb42(W) from page 515 of Small Arms of the World.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

My sister and I tried to save as much as we could, but I am in a tiny apartment now, and she has a small house.

Just the books were a huge chore. My folks had lots of them. Each of us got encyclopedias when we got to be 12. And they saved all of them.

They were members of two books clubs for years and years. And book club books are just considered trash by everyone. Even goodwill hates them. leafing through them and packing them off was a killer chore.