russian pre ak 47?

[Ringel05]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

OK, I am going to be a little bit of a dickhead but I must in the interest of factual data and correct you on one thing, the STG 44 was not the first assault rifle on the planet. The MKb42 was the first assault rifle. It was made by two different manufacturers hence the terminology of MKb42(W) for Walther and MKb42(H) for Haenel. They were slightly different in design and the OKW sent both examples (approximately 7,800 of each) to the Eastern Front in 1942 for field trials. Based on those experiences the Haenel design won and it's modified form took on the name MP43. It was subsequently modified into the MP44 (of which I used to own two) and finally after Hitler had heard so much about this new machine pistol (which the developers had had to call it because Hitler had told them to discontinue its development) he gave it the name Sturmgeweher (assault rifle) and the rest as they say is history. Pictured below is the MKb42(W) from page 515 of Small Arms of the World.

I have reproduction WWII, Civil War and colonial uniforms. Do you count buttons and stitches also?

 

[westwall]

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

OK, I am going to be a little bit of a dickhead but I must in the interest of factual data and correct you on one thing, the STG 44 was not the first assault rifle on the planet. The MKb42 was the first assault rifle. It was made by two different manufacturers hence the terminology of MKb42(W) for Walther and MKb42(H) for Haenel. They were slightly different in design and the OKW sent both examples (approximately 7,800 of each) to the Eastern Front in 1942 for field trials. Based on those experiences the Haenel design won and it's modified form took on the name MP43. It was subsequently modified into the MP44 (of which I used to own two) and finally after Hitler had heard so much about this new machine pistol (which the developers had had to call it because Hitler had told them to discontinue its development) he gave it the name Sturmgeweher (assault rifle) and the rest as they say is history. Pictured below is the MKb42(W) from page 515 of Small Arms of the World.

I have reproduction WWII, Civil War and colonial uniforms. Do you count buttons and stitches also?

Nope, but the comment wasn't entirely accurate so I had to set that part straight and give a little history to back up what I was saying as well. Do you favor incorrect data?

 

[Ringel05]

OK, I am going to be a little bit of a dickhead but I must in the interest of factual data and correct you on one thing, the STG 44 was not the first assault rifle on the planet. The MKb42 was the first assault rifle. It was made by two different manufacturers hence the terminology of MKb42(W) for Walther and MKb42(H) for Haenel. They were slightly different in design and the OKW sent both examples (approximately 7,800 of each) to the Eastern Front in 1942 for field trials. Based on those experiences the Haenel design won and it's modified form took on the name MP43. It was subsequently modified into the MP44 (of which I used to own two) and finally after Hitler had heard so much about this new machine pistol (which the developers had had to call it because Hitler had told them to discontinue its development) he gave it the name Sturmgeweher (assault rifle) and the rest as they say is history. Pictured below is the MKb42(W) from page 515 of Small Arms of the World.

I have reproduction WWII, Civil War and colonial uniforms. Do you count buttons and stitches also?

Nope, but the comment wasn't entirely accurate so I had to set that part straight and give a little history to back up what I was saying as well. Do you favor incorrect data?

I know where you are coming from and thanks for the info but most people could give a damn. It's like the term decimate, most believe it means to almost totally destroy yet it really means to reduce by 10%. It's the same with here because most have heard, and for all practical purposes (notice the last two words) the STg 44 (not MP44 to be exact) is the quintessential grandfather of all assault rifles. I was the first massed produced firearm of it's type which is the criteria used to determine such classifications.

 

[westwall]

I have reproduction WWII, Civil War and colonial uniforms. Do you count buttons and stitches also?

Nope, but the comment wasn't entirely accurate so I had to set that part straight and give a little history to back up what I was saying as well. Do you favor incorrect data?

I know where you are coming from and thanks for the info but most people could give a damn. It's like the term decimate, most believe it means to almost totally destroy yet it really means to reduce by 10%. It's the same with here because most have heard, and for all practical purposes (notice the last two words) the STg 44 (not MP44 to be exact) is the quintessential grandfather of all assault rifles. I was the first massed produced firearm of it's type which is the criteria used to determine such classifications.

I don't remember the actual production figures but there are more MP44s than there are StG44s (and yes they are exactly the same weapon except for the markings) Something like 450,000 MP43s, MP44s and StG44s were made with the majority being marked MP44. And I figured there might be some who actually would like to know about the history of the worlds first assault rifle.

 

[Ringel05]

Nope, but the comment wasn't entirely accurate so I had to set that part straight and give a little history to back up what I was saying as well. Do you favor incorrect data?

I know where you are coming from and thanks for the info but most people could give a damn. It's like the term decimate, most believe it means to almost totally destroy yet it really means to reduce by 10%. It's the same with here because most have heard, and for all practical purposes (notice the last two words) the STg 44 (not MP44 to be exact) is the quintessential grandfather of all assault rifles. I was the first massed produced firearm of it's type which is the criteria used to determine such classifications.

I don't remember the actual production figures but there are more MP44s than there are StG44s (and yes they are exactly the same weapon except for the markings) Something like 450,000 MP43s, MP44s and StG44s were made with the majority being marked MP44. And I figured there might be some who actually would like to know about the history of the worlds first assault rifle.

No problem.
BTW, Bone's Mauser is a hybrid, not a K98. The stock is K98 the metal is G98. The Russians and other eastern pact countries did it all the time and sold/gave them away to countries like North Vietnam.

 

[westwall]

I know where you are coming from and thanks for the info but most people could give a damn. It's like the term decimate, most believe it means to almost totally destroy yet it really means to reduce by 10%. It's the same with here because most have heard, and for all practical purposes (notice the last two words) the STg 44 (not MP44 to be exact) is the quintessential grandfather of all assault rifles. I was the first massed produced firearm of it's type which is the criteria used to determine such classifications.

I don't remember the actual production figures but there are more MP44s than there are StG44s (and yes they are exactly the same weapon except for the markings) Something like 450,000 MP43s, MP44s and StG44s were made with the majority being marked MP44. And I figured there might be some who actually would like to know about the history of the worlds first assault rifle.

No problem.
BTW, Bone's Mauser is a hybrid, not a K98. The stock is K98 the metal is G98. The Russians and other eastern pact countries did it all the time and sold/gave them away to countries like North Vietnam.

I would have to see better pics before I made that particular observation. Most of the rifles like this were imported by Sarco and Southern Ohio Gun as well as Interarms over the last 15 years or so. A friend of mine got to go through 10,000 of them from SOG a few years ago.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

But the bolt handle is straight. MIne is too but the stock still has the cutout for a bent bolt.

That's called a patrol bolt usc...the reason for bending the bolt down was so when the weapon was carried at the ready the bolt wouldn't get snagged at an inopportune time and eject a live round thus rendering your weapon useless until you closed the bolt and chambered another round.

Also the "pre AK-47" title of this thread would have been more appropriate if the weapon shown was the STG-44...the very first assault rifle on the planet earth and actually affected the outcome of several battles between the German Army and the Soviet Army invading Berlin....but not the eventual outcome. An awesome weapon indeed...and I've had the pleasure of holding one in my hands which was owned by a SoCal gun dealer.

OK, I am going to be a little bit of a dickhead but I must in the interest of factual data and correct you on one thing, the STG 44 was not the first assault rifle on the planet. The MKb42 was the first assault rifle. It was made by two different manufacturers hence the terminology of MKb42(W) for Walther and MKb42(H) for Haenel. They were slightly different in design and the OKW sent both examples (approximately 7,800 of each) to the Eastern Front in 1942 for field trials. Based on those experiences the Haenel design won and it's modified form took on the name MP43. It was subsequently modified into the MP44 (of which I used to own two) and finally after Hitler had heard so much about this new machine pistol (which the developers had had to call it because Hitler had told them to discontinue its development) he gave it the name Sturmgeweher (assault rifle) and the rest as they say is history. Pictured below is the MKb42(W) from page 515 of Small Arms of the World.

I knew there were prototypes out there of this weapon. Thanks. As stated this variant became the excepted form of the weapon regardless of markings or splitting hairs over model numbers.....

 

[strollingbones]

My sister and I tried to save as much as we could, but I am in a tiny apartment now, and she has a small house.

Just the books were a huge chore. My folks had lots of them. Each of us got encyclopedias when we got to be 12. And they saved all of them.

They were members of two books clubs for years and years. And book club books are just considered trash by everyone. Even goodwill hates them. leafing through them and packing them off was a killer chore.

i use to hoard books...a friend of mine could read 2 to 3 books a day...and did...and kept them all..when he died...it was just a mess...when open a huge ass room stacked with books...we sold them a dollar a large grocery bag full and didnt make a dent in the stacks...

you are right...books become a curse...no one wants them...its too much to transport them to sell them for nothing. book dealers would not take them..we had no master list saying what was there...and it would have taken weeks to sort and separate.

so now i keep a donation basket and when i finish a book ...it goes in there..when the basket is full...i put other things in there too...off we go to claws and paws to donate

 

[strollingbones]

better pics? is that remark aimed at me....o make me the target for you bows and arrows.

okay what do you want to see....and how do you want better pics...hell i got nothing better to do...than take more pics....plus i would love to see yall settle this...

so give me a list of what you want and i will supply it....

make the list clear however....where to find the numbers etc...

how you want the pics...what you want more pics of

 

[Ringel05]

I don't remember the actual production figures but there are more MP44s than there are StG44s (and yes they are exactly the same weapon except for the markings) Something like 450,000 MP43s, MP44s and StG44s were made with the majority being marked MP44. And I figured there might be some who actually would like to know about the history of the worlds first assault rifle.

No problem.
BTW, Bone's Mauser is a hybrid, not a K98. The stock is K98 the metal is G98. The Russians and other eastern pact countries did it all the time and sold/gave them away to countries like North Vietnam.

I would have to see better pics before I made that particular observation. Most of the rifles like this were imported by Sarco and Southern Ohio Gun as well as Interarms over the last 15 years or so. A friend of mine got to go through 10,000 of them from SOG a few years ago.

She provided the closeups. On the chamber housing is an obvious peened out Nazi Waffenstamp, at the base of the barrel is an obvious Kaiser era eagle (where it should be). There are many other clues like the roller coaster sight and length plus a couple of friends are collectors with exactly the same piece and have confirmed it is a hybrid build probably done by the Russians or one of their allies. If it was done by the Germans then the WWI sight would have been replaced with the K98 sight.

 

[strollingbones]

No problem.
BTW, Bone's Mauser is a hybrid, not a K98. The stock is K98 the metal is G98. The Russians and other eastern pact countries did it all the time and sold/gave them away to countries like North Vietnam.

I would have to see better pics before I made that particular observation. Most of the rifles like this were imported by Sarco and Southern Ohio Gun as well as Interarms over the last 15 years or so. A friend of mine got to go through 10,000 of them from SOG a few years ago.

She provided the closeups. On the chamber housing is an obvious peened out Nazi Waffenstamp, at the base of the barrel is an obvious Kaiser era eagle (where it should be). There are many other clues like the roller coaster sight and length plus a couple of friends are collectors with exactly the same piece and have confirmed it is a hybrid build probably done by the Russians or one of their allies. If it was done by the Germans then the WWI sight would have been replaced with the K98 sight.

ring has been researching on this since i posted the thread. he has seen all the markings....the photos you have seen. I really cant think of anything else to photo. So far anything ring has told me...has checked slam out....

given the little known history of the rifle...i figure that my father got it after tet... that is all i can really remember about it...