Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[Zavulon]

When you whine about shit from over a century ago, you are whining.

I just explained why majority of Russians supported the Reds, not Whites. Many of them saw Whites as foreign proxies (and they had all reasons to think so).

 

[AntonToo]

"Fighting between civilians" have started in 2013. At April, 13 of 2014 Turchinov declared (illegally, by the way) the start of anti-terroristic operation.

Dumbass what the **** do you think should happen when your country's cities are being taken over by armed separatists?

You roll in the army and get control of your country back. OBVIOUSLY.

 

[beagle9]

Dumbass what the **** do you think should happen when your country's cities are being taken over by armed separatists?

You roll in the army and get control of your country back. OBVIOUSLY.

An armed separatist movement that is backed up by an entire military from a nuclear powered nation right ? This thing seems to be far more complicated than an armed separatist uprising that just started in an area within Ukraine or wouldn't the uprising have been easily put down by the government of Ukraine ?

 

[Zavulon]

Dumbass what the **** do you think should happen when your country's cities are being taken over by armed separatists?

You roll in the army and get control of your country back. OBVIOUSLY.

In this situation Yanukovich started peace talks and tried to find mutually acceptable solution to prevent the bloodshed and devastating civil war. And they even signed the agreement with opposition and EU representatives. But this agreement was violated by the EU side next day.

In such situation Trump alleviated and, de facto, called back National Guard from California.

Government should work for the people. And if significant part of your population disagree with your decisions, violence is not only possible way of actions. Sometimes it is wise to be flexible and give people some human rights, like, you know, just allow them to speak their own language.
People rarely became separatists for no reason. You need to push them really hard.

 

[AntonToo]

In this situation Yanukovich started peace talks

Yanukovich was 2 months gone when Girkin’s squad of armed militants rolled up to Sloviansk in April 2014 and Ukraine declared anti-terrorist operation.

It’s basic timeline, why can’t you get it right?

My answer is if you get the timeline right all that Putin Vision propaganda you’ve been fed stops adding up, so you are emotionally invested to never let that happen.

 

[Deadstick]

I just explained why majority of Russians supported the Reds, not Whites. Many of them saw Whites as foreign proxies (and they had all reasons to think so).

Not just proxies but collaborators with Foreign military intervention in Russia in 1918, including Americans and British.

 

[Deadstick]

Yanukovich was 2 months gone when Girkin’s squad of armed militants rolled up to Sloviansk in April 2014 and Ukraine declared anti-terrorist operation.

It’s basic timeline, why can’t you get it right?

My answer is if you get the timeline right all that Putin Vision propaganda you’ve been fed stops adding up, so you are emotionally invested to never let that happen.

You need a reality check.

 

[AntonToo]

You need a reality check.

Well, when you listen to crackpot idiots like that it's no wonder you post like one.

...but it's worse than that, even more incoherent, since you are posting about Odessa 2025 as a response to a post about events in 2014.

Just wow, what is going on in your head?

 

[AntonToo]

An armed separatist movement that is backed up by an entire military from a nuclear powered nation right?

Nonsense, nobody backed separatists with nuclear arms. Russia to this day does not dare to go there.

Nor was it clear who were the armed squads and what their relationship with Russia was. It's not as if Russia declared it. Nope, they constanly lied and officially denied involvement in Donbass

All Ukraine knew is that it's time to defend their land if they can.

 

[beagle9]

Yanukovich was 2 months gone when Girkin’s squad of armed militants rolled up to Sloviansk in April 2014 and Ukraine declared anti-terrorist operation.

It’s basic timeline, why can’t you get it right?

My answer is if you get the timeline right all that Putin Vision propaganda you’ve been fed stops adding up, so you are emotionally invested to never let that happen.

You know, one would think that Ukraine would have first sent a delegation to Moscow laying out all the details of what is taking place in Ukraine just prior to 2014 or right after the uprising began, otherwise shouldn't they have done this in an attempt to isolate the uprising in hopes to resolve the situation before it got to far out of control ?
Why were the relations between Ukraine and Russia strained so badly that diplomacy wasn't a choice by Ukraine in order to stop the situation before it destroyed already "strained" relationships that Ukraine and Moscow shouldn't have had in such a way, otherwise prior to the uprising or afterwards ?

Was Ukraine and Russia completely on the outs with each other for year's, and the powder keg just finally blew ?
What was the bigger picture problem going on between Ukraine and Russia ?

 

[beagle9]

Nonsense, nobody backed separatists with nuclear arms.

Nor was it clear who were the armed squads and what their relationship with Russia was. All Ukraine knew is that it's time to defend their land if they can.

No one said or was saying what you just interpreted them to say.

I said in effect "how does the separatist end up being supported by a nuclear armed nation, otherwise if the uprising was just a little ole tiny dispute between some rebel rousers and a political situation going on within their tiny little part of a nation that is lived in ?

 

[AntonToo]

You know, one would think that Ukraine would have first sent a delegation to Moscow laying out all the details of what is taking place in Ukraine just prior to 2014 or right after the uprising began, otherwise shouldn't they have done this in an attempt to isolate the uprising in hopes to resolve the situation before it got to far out of control ?
Why were the relations between Ukraine and Russia strained so badly that diplomacy wasn't a choice by Ukraine in order to stop the situation before it destroyed already strained relationships that Ukraine and Moscow should have had, otherwise prior to the uprising or afterwards ?

....Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in February 2014 and you are asking how come there was a straigned relationship?

If Mexico annexes Texas you figure there might be some friction between United States and Mexico?

Come on.

 

[beagle9]

....Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in February 2014 and you are asking how come there was a straigned relationship?

If Mexico annexes Texas you figure there might be some friction between United States and Mexico?

Come on.

Why did Russia annex Crimea ? I've seen many documentaries on the subject, but they may be biased or slanted, so who knows what to believe really.

 

[AntonToo]

No one said or was saying what you just interpreted them to say.

I said in effect "how does the separatist end up being supported by a nuclear armed nation, otherwise if the uprising was just a little ole tiny dispute between some rebel rousers and a political situation going on within their tiny little part of a nation that is lived in ?

Putin wants Ukraine.

He can't stand Ukraine rejecting his represive, corrupt Russian World and instead embracing democratic EU.

You have to understand, the moment Russians start to suspect that Ukranians are starting to live better than them, the way Ukranians have realized the Poles started living better than them, is the moment Putin's legacy falls apart.

Putin perpetuated himself in power for too long, good old governing is not good enough for him nowdays, he measures himself against historic Russian imperialists like Peter the Great, stuck in romanticized antiquity when land-grab conquest wars were cool.

If you understand this part clearly then you understand why he annexes Crimea, why he supports separatists in Donbas and why he eventually goes all in with full scale invasion.

 

[beagle9]

Putin wants Ukraine.

He can't stand Ukraine rejecting his represive, corrupt Russian World and instead embracing democratic EU.

You have to understand, the moment Russians start to suspect that Ukranians are starting to live better than them, the way Ukranians have realized the Poles started living better than them, is the moment Putin's legacy falls apart.

Putin perpetuated himself in power for too long, good old governing is not good enough for him nowdays, he measures himself against historic Russian imperialists like Peter the Great, stuck in romanticized antiquity when land-grab conquest wars were cool.

If you understand this part clearly then you understand why he annexes Crimea, why he supports separatists in Donbas and why he eventually goes all in with full scale invasion.

A repressive, corrupt, Russian world ? Video after video showed Russia to be a modernized nation complete with malls, fast food restaurants, and all other amenities and such that is seen all around the world.

So I'm not so sure if your old Soviet Eastern block behind the wall analogy will fly these day's.

 

[AntonToo]

A repressive, corrupt, Russian world ? Video after video showed Russia to be a modernized nation complete with malls, fast food restaurants, and all other amenities and such that is seen all around the world.

So I'm not so sure if your old Soviet Eastern block behind the wall analogy will fly these day's.

You are telling a Russian native about Russia. Think about that.

Videos you watch are of Moscow or maybe St.Peter. Any two bit autocrat sitting on shitload of oil, diamonds and etc. can put togather a nice looking city for himself to live in. Doesn't mean regime is not corrupt, doesn't mean its not opressive, doesn't mean country overal is well developed.

Why do I say Russia is a corrupt, repressive country:

1. Regime's total control of media. Protesting regime is de-facto illegal. Publicly contradicting Kremlin's war propaganda risks jail time.
2. Regime's total control of judiciary (goes hand in hand in their corrupt disreguard for law and personal rights)
3. Regime's total control of parlament.
4. No real political oposition - regime either ran them out of the country, jailed or killed them off.
5. Corruption is deeply ingrained in Russia - misuse of public funds, bribery, extortion is far more common than in western countries. Russia ranks ~150th out of 180 countries on corruption indexes.

 

[Litwin]

An armed separatist movement that is backed up

you are lying , it was not any separatist movement, it was Moscow empire 's Hybrid War Campaign in Ukraine

the reality : The Moscow Military Forum: Moscow empire 's Hybrid War Campaign: Implications for Ukraine and Beyond


ps

what do you think ?



just like commie North Korea good they deserve it

 

[beagle9]

You are telling a Russian native about Russia. Think about that.

Videos you watch are of Moscow or maybe St.Peter. Any two bit autocrat sitting on shitload of oil, diamonds can put togather a nice looking city. Doesn't mean regime is not corrupt, doesn't mean he is not a dictator, doesn't mean country overal is well developed.

Why do I say Russia is a corrupt, repressive country:

1. Regime's total control of media.
2. Regime's total control of judiciary (goes hand in hand in their corrupt disreguard for law)
3. Regime's total control of parlament.
4. No real political oposition - regime either ran them out of the country, jailed or killed them off.
5. Protesting regime is de-facto illegal. Publicly contradicting Kremlin's war propaganda risks jail time.
6. Corruption is deeply ingrained in Russia - misuse of public funds, bribery, extortion is far more comon than in western countries. Russia ranks ~150th out of 180 countries on corruption indexes.

Can you not say these same thing's about the corruption in Ukraine ? Think about it.....

Can you not point out these same corruption scandals in almost every country in this world ???? So how about let's not get to overly excited that you are trying to work every angle needed in hopes to not get right down to what actually caused the country of Russia to stick it's neck so far out there anyways, otherwise in hopes to reel Ukraine back into it's sphere of influence after giving Ukraine it's independence in the first place.

 

[beagle9]

you are lying , it was not any separatist movement, it was Moscow empire 's Hybrid War Campaign in Ukraine

the reality : The Moscow Military Forum: Moscow empire 's Hybrid War Campaign: Implications for Ukraine and Beyond


ps

what do you think ?



just like commie North Korea good they deserve it

Look, some of you are calling it an armed separatist movement uprising, and then you are calling it something else. How about taking it up with Anton because I can't keep up with which one of you is lying or what on this subject.

 

[AntonToo]

Can you not say these same thing's about the corruption in Ukraine ? Think about it.....

Can you not point out these same corruption scandals in almost every country in this world ???? So how about let's not get to overly excited that you are trying to work every angle needed in hopes to not get right down to what actually caused the country of Russia to stick it's neck so far out there anyways, otherwise in hopes to reel Ukraine back into it's sphere of influence after giving Ukraine it's independence in the first place.

No. Equivalency is false.

Ukraine came from the same corrupt Russian world RF has - USSR. It's true that to this day there is still plenty of corruption in Ukraine, but they have been a more open, more democratic country and their joining of EU is CONDITIONED on cleaning up their act.

Ukraine has been slowly improving and is now ranked around 100 out of 180 countries on corruption index compared to Russia's ranking around 150.

2023 Corruption Perceptions Index - Explore Ukraine’s results

How does Ukraine measure up in the 2023 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org