Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[Zavulon]

RF citizen Girkin who's squad crossed the RF border into Ukraine and took over Sloviansk says you are full of shit and gives all the details on what was going on at the time, details that are confirmed by known facts.

Why do you think that is?

Do you really believe, that a few guys can really raise a rebellion in rich and safe region with multimillion population without active support of the local population?
There are millions of Mexicans in California, who crossed the border and many of them have some weapons. Can they draw Californians into rebellion against their will? Definitely, not. Without permission of Californian authorities, they wouldn't do a thing.

 

[Deadstick]

Unprovoked aggression, the bastards call that. There's not a word other than expletives these people shout out in response to being treated like that. Haven't seen this footage before, somehow.

There is a lot of footage you won't find on any Western platforms it's all be cancelled, they don't want the herd learning the facts, the police in Mariupol were killed for doing their job protecting the people, before it was finally liberated the Azov goons had made it their HQ.
Also don't forget 7 days before the Nazis burned people alive in Odessa when they attacked the trade union building, people in Donbass knew what was coming their way if they didn't organize and resist.

 

[Zavulon]

The progress is in your head.

Go back and read my posts, no a single one says or reasonably implies that there were not Ukrainian collaborators.

Those guys are not "collaborators". They are demontrants who demand their basic human rights (including their right to speak their language) back.

What I said was what RF invaders like Girkin themselves said - they led and enabled separatist war that otherwise would have fizzled out like in Odessa and Zaporizhie.

Massacre in Odessa wasn't "fizzling out", nor were mass murders in Zaporozhye, Kharkov and Dniepropetrovsk.
Local Russians and anti-Nazies just realised that public demands, demonstrations and other forms of more or less democratic political process doesn't work anymore. Some of them decided to wait a little until another regime changing and lay on mattress, some decided to leave country, some joined Donbass Militia, some started cooperation with the special services of Russian Federation.
And, of course, whatever they thought or want - Russian Federation can't allow Ukraine to join NATO.

My solution is to back Ukraine LIKE WE PROMISSED TO in when they gave up their nukes.

It is not a solution. It is just a form of definite suicide. You should have kept your other promises, in the first place. Like, you know, don't commit illegal and unprovoked aggressions, don't expand NATO, don't support Nazi regimes and so on...

 

[JoeB131]

The progress is in your head.

Go back and read my posts, no a single one says or reasonably implies that there were not Ukrainian collaborators.

What I said was what RF invaders like Girkin themselves said - they led and enabled separatist war that otherwise would have fizzled out like in Odessa and Zaporizhie.

My solution is to back Ukraine LIKE WE PROMISSED TO in when they gave up their nukes.

Arming them if they choose to fight the baseless invasion is the very least we can do.

Except the invasion wasn't baseless.

if you want to go into "promises", the West promised Russia that they wouldn't expand NATO beyond Germany after the Berlin Wall fell.

Yet here we are, trying to expand NATO right up to Moscow's throat.

If Mexico signed a treaty of Alliance with China and there were PLA soldiers on the border, we'd have the exact same reaction Russia did.

 

[AntonToo]

Those guys are not "collaborators". They are demontrants who demand their basic human rights (including their right to speak their language) back.





Massacre in Odessa wasn't "fizzling out", nor were mass murders in Zaporozhye, Kharkov and Dniepropetrovsk.
Local Russians and anti-Nazies just realised that public demands, demonstrations and other forms of more or less democratic political process doesn't work anymore. Some of them decided to wait a little until another regime changing and lay on mattress, some decided to leave country, some joined Donbass Militia, some started cooperation with the special services of Russian Federation.
And, of course, whatever they thought or want - Russian Federation can't allow Ukraine to join NATO.


It is not a solution. It is just a form of definite suicide. You should have kept your other promises, in the first place. Like, you know, don't commit illegal and unprovoked aggressions, don't expand NATO, don't support Nazi regimes and so on...

Aside from all the bullshit propaganda you’ve just said, Demonstrators were not the problem dum dum.

A lot of demonstrators wanting this and that.

There is a political process to get things done.

It’s the guys with guns taking over gov buildings under foreign flag that started the armed conflict in Donbas which would never be sustained without RF support.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

 

[Zavulon]

Aside from all the bullshit propaganda you’ve just said, Demonstrators were not the problem dum dum.

A lot of demonstrators wanting this and that.

There is a political process to get things done.

"Political process" was finished when Kievan Junta sent the squads of militants in Odessa and committed Odessa Massacre.

It’s the guys with guns taking over gov buildings under foreign flag that started the armed conflict in Donbas.

There were guys with guns under EU flags taking ober gov buildings in Kiev, in the first place. And if we want to see the wider picture - it was NATO's expansion and NATO's numerous acts of illegal and unprovoked agressions that destroyed the fragile equilibrium of safety in Europe (and in the world).

 

[Litwin]

If Moscow ulus doesn't disappear, putin's successor will be a Muslim.

 

[AntonToo]

"Political process" was finished when Kievan Junta sent the squads of militants in Odessa and committed Odessa Massacre.

Dum dum you got your timeline wrong again - Sloviansk was taken over by Girkins's armed squad in the middle of April.

Fighting in Odessa between civilians was weeks later, in May. 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists and ended with a building catching fire which got some people killed.

None of that suspended law and political process in Ukraine.

 

[AntonToo]

There were guys with guns under EU flags taking ober gov buildings in Kiev, in the first place.

....EU is a political and economic partnership between unique countries.

They did not somehow become one country when they joined. Poles didn't become French, Italians didn't turn into Spaniards or Greeks.

Your desperation for equivalncy is both laughable and telling.

 

[beagle9]

Dum dum you got your timeline wrong again - Sloviansk was taken over by Girkins's armed squad in the middle of April.

Fighting in Odessa between civilians was weeks later, in May. 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists and ended with a building catching fire which got some people killed.

None of that suspended law and political process in Ukraine.

Why was there a united Ukraine rally, and what did the so called pro-Russuan separatists have against a united Ukraine rally and it's reasoning for it ???

 

[AntonToo]

Why was there a united Ukraine rally, and what did the so called pro-Russuan separatists have against a united Ukraine rally and it's reasoning for it ???

Just click the link in my post. It's all in there.

 

[beagle9]

Just click the link in my post. It's all in there.

I don't click on anonymous link's, so thanks, uhhh but no thanks.

 

[Zavulon]

....EU is a political and economic partnership between unique countries.

Any state is a partnership. Russian Federation where any Oblast is unique, the United States of America where every State is unique and European Union, where unification is even more significant than between oblasts in the Russian Federation and states in the United States.

They did not somehow become one country when they joined. Poles didn't become French, Italians didn't turn into Spaniards or Greeks.

And Californians are not Texans, and Permyaks are not Chechens.

Your desperation for equivalncy is both laughable and telling.

The difference between Federation (as Russian Federation or United States) and Confederation (as European Union) is quite arbitrary. You can't gain any strong moral ground here. One part of the citizens of Ukraine want to be a part of European Union, and another part of them want to be a part of Russian Federation (of course, what do they want mostly depends on the terms of such proposals). But, instead of proper political process, the EU and NATO had started organised and illegal violence through their proxies on Maidan. There was the first blood and that marked watershed between civil peace and civil war (supported, politically, economically and militarily by both sides).

 

[Zavulon]

Dum dum you got your timeline wrong again - Sloviansk was taken over by Girkins's armed squad in the middle of April.

Fighting in Odessa between civilians was weeks later, in May. 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists and ended with a building catching fire which got some people killed.

None of that suspended law and political process in Ukraine.

Yep. It was like sending the squads of armed Rednecks against BLM march and then say: "What a pity that some guys died! But all of them were n#ggers and mexicans and traitors of America and from now we allow any true American patriot (meaning Republicans, of course) to kill any treasonous n#gger at spot. It is lesser evil." You say so, and you'll have a civil war, too.

 

[Zavulon]

Dum dum you got your timeline wrong again - Sloviansk was taken over by Girkins's armed squad in the middle of April.

Fighting in Odessa between civilians was weeks later, in May. 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists and ended with a building catching fire which got some people killed.

None of that suspended law and political process in Ukraine.

"Fighting between civilians" have started in 2013. At April, 13 of 2014 Turchinov declared (illegally, by the way) the start of anti-terroristic operation.
So, that was the moment when the violence came from the level "Civilian disturbance, supported by foreign actors" to the "Military operation" level.

And, of course, you shouldn't forget about capture of regional administrations in the Western regions of Ukraine as a part of Maidan movement (under foreign EU flags) in January and February of 2014.

2014 Euromaidan regional state administration occupations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or will you say, that occupation of the building of regional administration by pro-European anti-government protesters is good, and the occupation under Russian Federation flags is bad?

 

[Correll]

Not necessarily. There is an quite popular opinion that Whites would make Russia a half-colony of England and France. Anyway they lost the war and so demonstrated their incompetence.

Whining about "colonization" is not a good look on a supposedly european nation.

 

[Zavulon]

Whining about "colonization" is not a good look on a supposedly european nation.

Irish are Europeans, aren't they? And they were colonised by the Brits, weren't they? And, as far as I know, they had pretty good reasons to fight for their independence and for their rights. Say nothing about all those Slavic people, genocided and/or assimilated by the Germans.
And no, we are not whining, we are killing all potential colonisators or "decolonisators".

 

[Correll]

Irish are Europeans, aren't they? And they were colonised by the Brits, weren't they? And, as far as I know, they had pretty good reasons to fight for their independence and for their rights. Say nothing about all those Slavic people, genocided and/or assimilated by the Germans.
And no, we are not whining, we are killing all potential colonisators or "decolonisators".

When you whine about shit from over a century ago, you are whining.

 

[sealybobo]

When you whine about shit from over a century ago, you are whining.

Didn’t Scott bessent work for George soros?