Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[GLASNOST]

Have you been to Russia, asswipe, to tell me bull about how bad I am living here?

He's looking through his fingers.

 

[GLASNOST]

Open democratic society my arse, they overthrew democracy.

Stop confusing them with facts!

 

[AntonToo]

Open democratic society my arse, they overthrew democracy.

Wtf? Just because Yanukovich ran off to Russia doesn't mean democracy ended in Ukraine.

On the contrary, Ukrainian government continued it's work, Yanukovich party parliamentarians remaining where they were, Supreme Court intact, interim President assigned in accordance with the law and new elections held 3 months later to elect new President.

You can compare that to Russia where people have NEVER voted in an actual change in power and executive office.

 

[GLASNOST]

Wtf? Just because Yanukovich ran off to Russia doesn't mean democracy ended in Ukraine.

You are under the impression that Ukraine was run by Democratic principles prior to this mess? Holy shit! I've been to Ukraine and my experience there leaves me to believe that the critics are right - Ukraine really is the most corrupt country in Europe.

 

[Robert W]

Demonstrations that were bankrolled by the EU.

Well, some of the demonstrators were bankrolled by Putin.

 

[Ringo]

I wouldn't want to live in either, to be honest.

 

[GLASNOST]

Well, some of the demonstrators were bankrolled by Putin.

Says you?

 

[Zavulon]

Ignorant dummy, we've had WW2 since then followed by Geneva Conventions where the world decided NEVER AGAIN and to that goal has worked out international law conventions and agreements that just about all countries signed on to.

And what happened in Kosovo and Iraq? As far as I know you openly and demonstratively violated and destroyed post-WWII world order.

World at large has learned and progressed, Russia however is now devolving into lawless barbarianism of antiquity.

World is pretty the same. It's never changing. And illegal and unprovoked aggressions is American thing, not Russia's. All our wars are totally justified.

 

[Zavulon]

Ignorant dummy, we've had WW2 since then followed by Geneva Conventions where the world decided NEVER AGAIN and to that goal has worked out international law conventions and agreements that just about all countries signed on to.

And what happened in Kosovo in 1999 and in Iraq in 2003? As far as I know - you openly and demonstratively violated international law and moral rules.

World at large has learned and progressed, Russia however is now devolving into lawless barbarianism of antiquity.

World is pretty the same. And it is American thing - unprovoked and illegal aggressions. All Russia's wars are totally justified.

 

[Robert W]

I wouldn't want to live in either, to be honest.

But Ukraine isn't Poland. (Or Belarus) for that matter.

EU Integration wasn't even a majority opinion in Ukraine pre-Maidan. It was just on a laundry list of promises.

But the EU, being the EU, just saw Ukraine as another bunch of suckers to fleece.

Putin has done this before. Send his army to parts of Ukraine, confiscate it and walk out happy. Ukraine never invited him. HE used tanks, cannons and bombs in Ukraine. For you to hint he is fine, makes many here angry.

 

[AntonToo]

You mean we stick our noses in other people's countries, support dictators who let our corporations loot their nations, and wonder why America is hated around the world.

Lets stick to Ukraine, since I don't want to go on tangents with you all day long.

What dictator did we support in Ukraine? What corporation "looted" Ukraine?

In what way (aside from Trump's antics that he was impeached for) was our involvement in Ukraine inconsistent with our stated values of supporting open, democratic society as means to world stability, freedom and economic development?

 

[Robert W]

Says you?

I am mocking the JoeB131 claim the EU bankrolled protesters.

 

[Robert W]

You mean we stick our noses in other people's countries, support dictators who let our corporations loot their nations, and wonder why America is hated around the world.

You decided to vote for them pal.

 

[Deadstick]

That is counterfactual nonsense.

First point of agreement:

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

Agreement on settlement of political crisis in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yanukovich agreed to these terms and then proceeded to refuse to sign implementation of this very first point of agreement, instead using this time to run off to Russia. First unsuccessfully through Donetsk airport where he was turned away and then by Russian special forces.

You can't complain about protestors violating something after Yanukovich clearly broke black and white terms of agreement.

Hr signed the whole agreement not just part of it, and the fascist mob didn't give him time to implement anything, they came after him just hours after the signing, you can spin like a top but it won't wash.

 

[JWBooth]

Says you?

Some of that FAFO faggotry no doubt.

 

[theHawk]

Russia wants what was damaged by Russia to be added to Russia. Trump will allow it, but the
World who has helped Ukraine will not allow it. Stop watching Trump and pay attention to the European nations who help Ukraine go against Russian aggression. Trump made a mistake by raising hell with Ukraine.

Really?

The **** are they going to do about it?

Russia took what they wanted. They want it more than the Euro cucks, so they have it.

 

[Correll]

You should really take the time to read exactly why Putin can never accept Ukraine as it's own country, can never accept Ukraine choosing to be an open democratic society in Europe.

Then you will understand the seemingly insane decisions he makes that is heading Russia towards North Korean style dictatorial isolationism.

I understand his reasons. They even can make sense, depending on how little value you place on human life, even Russian human life.

My point was, that Russia is declining. Playing "nice" and diplomatic, instead of having a war, was probably a better play. IMO.

 

[theHawk]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Here's the underlying problem.

When the USSR broke up, Russians found themselves living in Ukraine.

Our goals should be pretty clear.

1) A peace everyone can live with, even if they don't like it.
2) Not letting this escalate into WWIII
3) Not driving Russia deeper into China's orbit.


What are the alternatives?

Ukraine certainly doesn't have the capacity to retake territory at this point. They are conscripting 50-year-olds while men are fleeing the country.

Putting the economic screws to Russia, hoping that Putin will be overthrown, just creates more problems than it solves.

Trump is like a broken clock... he's right maybe twice a day.

^^ wow, hell has frozen over.

 

[theHawk]

We need a President who is tough on Russia like Joe Biden

Beats a Surrender Monkey like Trump

Joe wasn’t tough on Russia, he let them take Crimea (as VP), then the rest of Eastern Ukraine on his watch.

 

[JWBooth]

Really?

The **** are they going to do about it?

Russia took what they wanted. They want it more than the Euro cucks, so they have it.

Goodness, such reality and objective observation are beyond the kin of the blindly delusional.