Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[JoeB131]

That is AGAIN false.

As I've already explained the revolt happened not just because Yanukovich unilateraly refused to sign EU deal, but because in the after math he employed Berkut to violently supress what were intially peaceful protestors.

Demonstrations that were bankrolled by the EU.

That shit may fly in Russia but Ukrainians are not obidient sheep like that and refused to tolerate illicit Kremlin style opression. Protestors demanded that Berkut leaders that gave those orders be prosecuted (Like Yanukovich, they all ran off to Russia to avoid prosecution)

Obama administration for their part was working overtime to broker a deal with Russia to keep Yanukovich in power until eletions of a new president. Your insinuation that US and EU was looking for a coup in Urakine is bs.

Oh, really?

A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War

In 2014 Ukraine, great power gamesmanship, righteous anger at a corrupt status quo, and opportunistic far-right extremists toppled the government in the Maidan Revolution. Today’s crisis in Ukraine can’t be understood without understanding Maidan.

jacobin.com

US officials, unhappy with the scuttled EU deal, saw a similar chance in the Maidan protests. Just two months before they broke out, the NED’s then president, pointing to Yanukovych’s European outreach, wrote that “the opportunities are considerable, and there are important ways Washington could help.” In practice, this meant funding groups like New Citizen, which the Financial Times reported “played a big role in getting the protest up and running,” led by a pro-EU opposition figure. Journalist Mark Ames discovered the organization had received hundreds of thousands of dollars from US democracy promotion initiatives.

While it may be a long time before we know its full extent, Washington took an even more direct role once the turmoil started. Senators John McCain and Chris Murphy met with Svoboda’s fascist leader, standing shoulder to shoulder with him as they announced their support to the protesters, while US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland handed out sandwiches to them. To understand the provocative nature of such moves, you only need to remember the establishment outrage over the mere idea Moscow had used troll farms to voice support for Black Lives Matter protests.

Later, a leaked phone call showed Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine maneuvering to shape the post-Maidan government. “**** the EU,” Nuland told him, over its less aggressive intervention into the country. “Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience,” she said, referring to opposition leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who backed the devastating neoliberal policies demanded by the West. You can probably guess who became prime minister in the post-Maidan interim government.

It’s an overstatement to say, as some critics have charged, that Washington orchestrated the Maidan uprising. But there’s no doubt US officials backed and exploited it for their own ends.

ou have a wild imagination thinking like that. What do you know that you want us to know?

COme back when you make some sense.

 

[AntonToo]

Demonstrations that were bankrolled by the EU.

Prove it.

Lets just stop on this point and press you on this as an example of how hollow and baseless your assertions are.

 

[JoeB131]

Prove it.

Lets just stop on this point and press you on this as an example of how hollow and baseless your assertions are.

I just posted an article on that very subject.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-ukraine-hypocrisy

It was a grotesque distortion to portray the events in Ukraine as a purely indigenous, popular uprising. The Nuland-Pyatt telephone conversation and other actions confirm that the United States was considerably more than a passive observer to the turbulence. Instead, U.S. officials were blatantly meddling in Ukraine. Such conduct was utterly improper. The United States had no right to try to orchestrate political outcomes in another country—especially one on the border of another great power. It is no wonder that Russia reacted badly to the unconstitutional ouster of an elected, pro-Russian government—an ouster that occurred not only with Washington’s blessing, but apparently with its assistance.

That episode, as well as earlier ones involving Italy, France and other democratic countries, should be kept in mind the next time U.S. political leaders or the media publicly fume about Russia’s apparent interference in America’s 2016 elections. One can legitimately condemn some aspects of Moscow’s behavior, but the force of America’s moral outrage is vitiated by the stench of U.S. hypocrisy.

 

[AntonToo]

Oh, really?

A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War

In 2014 Ukraine, great power gamesmanship, righteous anger at a corrupt status quo, and opportunistic far-right extremists toppled the government in the Maidan Revolution. Today’s crisis in Ukraine can’t be understood without understanding Maidan.

jacobin.com

US officials, unhappy with the scuttled EU deal, saw a similar chance in the Maidan protests. Just two months before they broke out, the NED’s then president, pointing to Yanukovych’s European outreach, wrote that “the opportunities are considerable, and there are important ways Washington could help.”

Read that again and tell where in this revisionary garbage (nobody had any idea about any Maidan two months before it broke out) was anyone talking about a coup in Ukraine?

Obviously America wants Ukraine, as any other country to be democratic, open society...but first and foremost as a STABLE COUNTRY.

Nothing in this article contradicts the fact that Obama administration was working to stabalize the conflict in Kiev, urge both sides to stay non-violent, observe the law and bring a solution where Yannukovich remains in power until new elections.

 

[JoeB131]

Read that again and tell where in this revisionary garbage (nobody had any idea about any Maidan two months before it broke out) was anyone talking about a coup in Ukraine?

Obviously America wants Ukraine, as any other country to be democratic, open society...but first and foremost as a STABLE COUNTRY.

Nothing in this article contradicts the fact that Obama administration was working to stabalize the conflict in Kiev, urge both sides to stay non-violent, observe the law and bring a solution where Yannukovich remains in power until new elections.

Oh, bullshit.

Yanukovych rejects an awful EU Deal and gets a far better one from Russia, and suddenly, the EU and US are supporting these protestors.

Some would call that, treason.

 

[AntonToo]

Oh, bullshit.

Yanukovych rejects an awful EU Deal and gets a far better one from Russia, and suddenly, the EU and US are supporting these protestors.

Some would call that, treason.

Dummy, America has always (legaly) supported pro-democracy, open society groups. This is news to you?

Your implicit position that instead of the pro-EU integration protestors that are getting beat, America should have backed Yanukovich's Kremlin style repressions is entirely ABSURD.

Do you know anything at all about the priciples America stands for? Or do you just forget about all that as soon as you read some useful idiot echoing Kremlin propaganda?

 

[Ringo]

Dummy, America has always (legaly) supported pro-democracy, open society groups. This is news to you?

Какая же ты мразь... What kind of scum are you?

 

[JoeB131]

Dummy, America has always (legaly) supported pro-democracy, open society groups. This is news to you?

You mean we stick our noses in other people's countries, support dictators who let our corporations loot their nations, and wonder why America is hated around the world.

Your implicit position that instead of the pro-EU integration protestors that are getting beat, America should have backed Yanukovich's Kremlin style repressions is entirely ABSURD.

I think we should learn to mind our own ******* business. Look at the mess we've created! A decade of war, Ukraine will be devastated for decades. Maybe we'd have all been better off had Yanukovych smashed in some heads.

Do you know anything at all about the priciples America stands for? Or do you just forget about all that as soon as you read some useful idiot echoing Kremlin propaganda?

I wish one of those principles was "common sense". Russia warned for a decade that Ukraine was its red line, and we crossed it anyway.

 

[AntonToo]

Yanukovych rejects an awful EU Deal

And on this, there is a country named Belarus on Ukraine's border that took up Kremlin's "deal" of socio-economic dependance.

You want to take a look how "Russian world" is working out for them? And then on the other side of Ukraine how EU world is working out for them.

Where would YOU rather live - Poland or Belarus?

 

[JoeB131]

And on this, there is a country named Belarus on Ukraine's border that took up Kremlin's "deal" of socio-economic dependance.

You want to take a look how "Russian world" is working out for them? And then on the other side of Ukraine how EU world is working out for them.

Where would YOU rather live - Poland or Belarus?

I wouldn't want to live in either, to be honest.

But Ukraine isn't Poland. (Or Belarus) for that matter.

EU Integration wasn't even a majority opinion in Ukraine pre-Maidan. It was just on a laundry list of promises.

But the EU, being the EU, just saw Ukraine as another bunch of suckers to fleece.

 

[Litwin]

Bastards #THEHague

 

[Correll]

Dummy, America has always (legaly) supported pro-democracy, open society groups. This is news to you?

Your implicit position that instead of the pro-EU integration protestors that are getting beat, America should have backed Yanukovich's Kremlin style repressions is entirely ABSURD.

Do you know anything at all about the priciples America stands for? Or do you just forget about all that as soon as you read some useful idiot echoing Kremlin propaganda?

Personally I would have preferred we stayed OUT of it.

Diplomacy could have avoided this war.

Russia is dying. Putin is an old man. A decade or so down the road, who knows how weak or distracted Russia could have been.

 

[Deadstick]

Read that again and tell where in this revisionary garbage (nobody had any idea about any Maidan two months before it broke out) was anyone talking about a coup in Ukraine?

Obviously America wants Ukraine, as any other country to be democratic, open society...but first and foremost as a STABLE COUNTRY.

Nothing in this article contradicts the fact that Obama administration was working to stabalize the conflict in Kiev, urge both sides to stay non-violent, observe the law and bring a solution where Yannukovich remains in power until new elections

And on this, there is a country named Belarus on Ukraine's border that took up Kremlin's "deal" of socio-economic dependance.

You want to take a look how "Russian world" is working out for them? And then on the other side of Ukraine how EU world is working out for them.

Where would YOU rather live - Poland or Belarus?

Russia offered a $15 billion support deal with no strings attached like austerity and a slave of the IMF as the EU would have inflicted, but even then Yanukovych didn't reject the EU deal out of hand he postponed it.

 

[Deadstick]

And on this, there is a country named Belarus on Ukraine's border that took up Kremlin's "deal" of socio-economic dependance.

You want to take a look how "Russian world" is working out for them? And then on the other side of Ukraine how EU world is working out for them.

Where would YOU rather live - Poland or Belarus?

Tell me Vlasov Boy, why did the Maidan mob sign up to this deal in 2014 that would have given them just about all they were demanding then break it hours later? because their western handlers didn't want any deal they wanted victory.

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

2. Constitutional reform, balancing the powers of the President, the government and parliament, will start immediately and be completed in September 2014.

3. Presidential elections will be held as soon as the new Constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014. New electoral laws will be passed, and a new Central Election Commission will be formed on the basis of proportionality and in accordance with the OSCE & Venice commission rules. 4. Investigation into recent acts of violence will be conducted under joint monitoring from the authorities, the opposition and the Council of Europe.

5. The authorities will not impose a state of emergency. The authorities and the opposition will refrain from the use of violence. The Parliament will adopt the 3rd amnesty, covering the same range of illegal actions as the 17th February 2014 law.

Both parties will undertake serious efforts for the normalisation of life in the cities and villages by withdrawing from administrative and public buildings and unblocking streets, city parks and squares.

Illegal weapons should be handed over to the Ministry of Interior bodies within 24 hours of the special law, referred to in point 1 hereof, coming into force. After the aforementioned period, all cases of illegal carrying, and storage of weapons will fall under the law of Ukraine. The forces of authorities and of the opposition will step back from confrontational posture. The Government will use law enforcement forces exclusively for the physical protection of public buildings.

6. The Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, Poland and the Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation call for an immediate end to all violence and confrontation.
Kyiv, 21 February 2014

Signatories

Viktor Yanukovych, president of Ukraine

For the Opposition

Vitaliy Klichko, UDAROleh Tyahnybok, SvobodaArseniy Yatsenyuk, Batkivshchyna
Witnessed by:

For the EU

Radosław Sikorski, Polish foreign ministerFrank-Walter Steinmeier, German foreign ministerLaurent Fabius, French foreign minister
For the Russian Federation

 

[AntonToo]

Tell me Vlasov Boy

yep, these idiots actually think it's TREASON to want Russia to be a peaceful, prosperous, open society.

 

[AntonToo]

why did the Maidan mob sign up to this deal in 2014 that would have given them just about all they were demanding then break it hours later?

Dupe, it wasn't protestors that broke it, it was Yanukovich when he refused to sign mandated follow up agreements.

Get your facts straight instead spreading your useful idiot propaganda here.

 

[AntonToo]

Personally I would have preferred we stayed OUT of it.

Diplomacy could have avoided this war.

Russia is dying. Putin is an old man. A decade or so down the road, who knows how weak or distracted Russia could have been.

You should really take the time to read exactly why Putin can never accept Ukraine as it's own country, can never accept Ukraine choosing to be an open democratic society in Europe.

Then you will understand the seemingly insane decisions he makes that is heading Russia towards North Korean style dictatorial isolationism.

 

[Deadstick]

Dupe. it wasn't Maidan protestors that broke it, it was Yanukovich when he refused to sign mandated follow up agreements.

Get your facts straight instead spreading your useful idiot propaganda here.

You just can't stop lying Vlasov Boy, the Maidan fascist rabble told their leaders they wouldn't tolerate it, they went after Yanukovych and took over Government buildings the next day, thats why he fled from a fascist lynch mob, i know it would have given you a sadistic kick from seeing him swinging from a rope, tough luck asshole.

 

[Deadstick]

You should really take the time to read exactly why Putin can never accept Ukraine as it's own country, can never accept Ukraine choosing to be an open democratic society in Europe.

Then you will understand the seemingly insane decisions he makes that is heading Russia towards North Korean style dictatorial isolationism.

Open democratic society my arse, they overthrew democracy.

 

[AntonToo]

You just can't stop lying Vlasov Boy, the Maidan fascist rabble told their leaders they wouldn't tolerate it, they went after Yanukovych and took over Government buildings the next day, thats why he fled from a fascist lynch mob, i know it would have given you a sadistic kick from seeing him swinging from a rope, tough luck asshole.

That is counterfactual nonsense.

First point of agreement:

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

Agreement on settlement of political crisis in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yanukovich agreed to these terms and then proceeded to refuse to sign implementation of this very first point of agreement, instead using this time to run off to Russia. First unsuccessfully through Donetsk airport where he was turned away and then by Russian special forces.

You can't complain about protestors violating something after Yanukovich clearly broke black and white terms of agreement.