Russia scraps plan to deploy missles

[Chris]

These security concerns are ridiculous. ...

In what way are they ridiculous?

A fraction of our nuclear capacity could destroy Russia.

They know it, and we know it.

But the Republicans and their buddies in the military industrial complex have to keep creating threats to justify the huge expenditures of money we put out. Like being afraid of 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. AQ is no real threat to a country of 300 million people.

The real threat is the reduction of taxes on the rich which has created this massive National Debt. And Reagan and Bush are responsible.

 

[elvis]

These security concerns are ridiculous. ...

In what way are they ridiculous?

A fraction of our nuclear capacity could destroy Russia.

They know it, and we know it.

But the Republicans and their buddies in the military industrial complex have to keep creating threats to justify the huge expenditures of money we put out. Like being afraid of 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. AQ is no real threat to a country of 300 million people.

The real threat is the reduction of taxes on the rich which has created this massive National Debt. And Reagan and Bush are responsible.

Obama is DOUBLING that debt, you fucking mental midget.

 

[VaYank5150]

Russia: Won’t deploy missiles near Poland - Russia- msnbc.com

MOSCOW - Russia said Saturday it will scrap a plan to deploy missiles near Poland since Washington has dumped a planned missile shield in Eastern Europe. It also harshly criticized Iran's president for new comments denying the Holocaust.

I'd call this progress...Good job, President Obama!

 

[DiveCon]

In what way are they ridiculous?

A fraction of our nuclear capacity could destroy Russia.

They know it, and we know it.

But the Republicans and their buddies in the military industrial complex have to keep creating threats to justify the huge expenditures of money we put out. Like being afraid of 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. AQ is no real threat to a country of 300 million people.

The real threat is the reduction of taxes on the rich which has created this massive National Debt. And Reagan and Bush are responsible.

Obama is DOUBLING that debt, you fucking mental midget.

shhhh, he dont want to know that
he also ignores what Carter and Clinton added to the debt

 

[Si modo]

These security concerns are ridiculous. ...

In what way are they ridiculous?

A fraction of our nuclear capacity could destroy Russia.

They know it, and we know it.

But the Republicans and their buddies in the military industrial complex have to keep creating threats to justify the huge expenditures of money we put out. Like being afraid of 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. AQ is no real threat to a country of 300 million people.

The real threat is the reduction of taxes on the rich which has created this massive National Debt. And Reagan and Bush are responsible.

What the hell does this have to do with your claim that the security issues in Kaliningrad Oblast are ridiculous?

 

[elvis]

A fraction of our nuclear capacity could destroy Russia.

They know it, and we know it.

But the Republicans and their buddies in the military industrial complex have to keep creating threats to justify the huge expenditures of money we put out. Like being afraid of 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. AQ is no real threat to a country of 300 million people.

The real threat is the reduction of taxes on the rich which has created this massive National Debt. And Reagan and Bush are responsible.

Obama is DOUBLING that debt, you fucking mental midget.

shhhh, he dont want to know that
he also ignores what Carter and Clinton added to the debt

Very few people know it, but Carter actually increased military spending by 50 percent and also made it law for all 18 yr old males to register for selective service. This was all a result of Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.
he also boycotted the Moscow olympics for the same reason.

 

[Si modo]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-global-topics/88807-russia-scraps-plan-to-deploy-missles.html

 

[DiveCon]

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

another one

 

[Si modo]

It would be nice to have the discussion of this in a single thread so that I can see all input in one place and not have to cross post my points in several threads.

 

[DiveCon]

Obama is DOUBLING that debt, you fucking mental midget.

shhhh, he dont want to know that
he also ignores what Carter and Clinton added to the debt

Very few people know it, but Carter actually increased military spending by 50 percent and also made it law for all 18 yr old males to register for selective service. This was all a result of Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.
he also boycotted the Moscow olympics for the same reason.

yup
but the thing was, the military was in such disarray under carter he had very little else he could do
and Clinton and the GOP congress did the same thing in the 90's

 

[VaYank5150]

It would be nice to have the discussion of this in a single thread so that I can see all input in one place and not have to cross post my points in several threads.

It would APPEAR someone has taken care of this for you. Good evening Si modo!

 

[Si modo]

It would be nice to have the discussion of this in a single thread so that I can see all input in one place and not have to cross post my points in several threads.

It would APPEAR someone has taken care of this for you. Good evening Si modo!

'Sup, Yank? Good to see you online.

 

[VaYank5150]

It would be nice to have the discussion of this in a single thread so that I can see all input in one place and not have to cross post my points in several threads.

It would APPEAR someone has taken care of this for you. Good evening Si modo!

'Sup, Yank? Good to see you online.

Good to see you as well. So, do you still believe Obama screwed up with this move?

 

[Article 15]

Threads merged

~A15

 

[DiveCon]

It would APPEAR someone has taken care of this for you. Good evening Si modo!

'Sup, Yank? Good to see you online.

Good to see you as well. So, do you still believe Obama screwed up with this move?

yes, he broke treaty's
that's something you DON'T do unilaterally for no reason

 

[VaYank5150]

'Sup, Yank? Good to see you online.

Good to see you as well. So, do you still believe Obama screwed up with this move?

yes, he broke treaty's
that's something you DON'T do unilaterally for no reason

I'll do the homework, but which Treaty(ies) are you referring to specifically?

 

[VaYank5150]

And why did this get moved out of the "politics" arena?

 

[Si modo]

It would APPEAR someone has taken care of this for you. Good evening Si modo!

'Sup, Yank? Good to see you online.

Good to see you as well. So, do you still believe Obama screwed up with this move?

Taking all into consideration? Yes, yes I do and if any other president had done this, I would say the same.

First, I am in favor of continuing to perfect this mid-range level of BMD. You and I are not in agreement on that, so that is a given.

But, let's assume I was willing to give up further development of a mid-range system so that we are on the same page.

I would still disagree for the following reasons:

1. One of my original disagreements with this is that we got nothing in return from the Russians. Although this may appear to be something in return, I don't find it nearly adequate. First, what the Russians had planned for Kaliningrad Oblast was completely offensive and not comparable to our system. In fact, it was an escalation of offensive arms by the Russians. Thus, this is an inequitable trade of concessions. Secondly, considering the security issues in Kaliningrad with their anti-Moscow factions, the Russians' planned deployment of offensive arms in an unfriendly environment was not a given at all.

2. Part of the deal to the Poles was to give them Patriot missiles in return for their allowing us the use of their territory. We aren't getting that use any longer, but we are still shipping the Patriots to them. That's a ridiculous waste of our resources for nothing.

3. As it became clear that we actually did piss off the Poles, still shipping the Patriots certainly makes them happier. However, any trust the Poles were willing to extend to the USA is less solid after this.

4. Finally, with what appeared to me as backpeddling after realizing the ramifications of backing out of this deal, all of this seems poorly thought out and I believe that had we honored the original deal, we would be in a better position as far as goodwill is concerned with the countries involved. Russia and the USA will always have tentative goodwill, IMO, until another generation dies off.

No doubt others will not agree with my analysis and that's fine. I do like the opportunity to voice it with those interested in an honest exchange of ideas.

How about you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Divecon, your assignment is to go find the treaties that Bush unilaterally broke in 2001 and 2002 getting ready for war. Many of them had to with bailing out on international war crimes agreements. I amazed how you righturds keep stirring up your own stink. Michael Medved has it right: solid conservative values, good moderate voice, get rid of the far rightoid agenda-driven whackos. He is 100% correct.

 

[VaYank5150]

1. One of my original disagreements with this is that we got nothing in return from the Russians. Although this may appear to be something in return, I don't find it nearly adequate. First, what the Russians had planned for Kaliningrad Oblast was completely offensive and not comparable to our system. In fact, it was an escalation of offensive arms by the Russians. Thus, this is an inequitable trade of concessions. Secondly, considering the security issues in Kaliningrad with their anti-Moscow factions, the Russians' planned deployment of offensive arms in an unfriendly environment was not a given at all.

So, are you saying trading our DEFENSIVE weaponry for their OFEENSIVE weaponry is not equitable? I don't think I follow you on this one? By them not deploying their offensive weapons, we are not going to spend more money on a defensive countermeasure. Sounds like a good business decision to me.

2. Part of the deal to the Poles was to give them Patriot missiles in return for their allowing us the use of their territory. We aren't getting that use any longer, but we are still shipping the Patriots to them. That's a ridiculous waste of our resources for nothing.

I agree. We should not be "giving" weapons systems to anyone, if we are getting nothing tangible in return.

3. As it became clear that we actually did piss off the Poles, still shipping the Patriots certainly makes them happier. However, any trust the Poles were willing to extend to the USA is less credible after this.

OK, but honestly, so what?

4. Finally, with what appeared to me as backpeddling after realizing the ramifications of backing out of this deal, all of this seems poorly thought out and I belive that had we honored the original deal, we would be in a better position as far as goodwill is concerned with the countries involved. Russia and the USA will always have tentative goodwill, IMO, until another generation dies off.

What was the original deal with Russia?