Round 2: The Catholic Church vs. Pro-Choice Democrats

[Modbert]

On Social Issues, Bishops Flex Political Muscle : NPR

Exhibit A: the health care overhaul. On Nov. 6, the night before the House of Representatives voted on heath care, Speaker Nancy Pelosi received some visitors. One was Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan, an anti-abortion Democrat, who wanted to amend the House bill to permanently strip federal funding for abortion. Critics say that would make it harder for all women to pay for abortions. Stupak brought with him two representatives of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, who said they would not support any bill without that amendment.

As Stupak later put it, "We want to send a message: If you start messing with abortion and health care, you've got a problem."

The meeting was a turning point. Pelosi allowed a vote on the amendment the next day. It passed.

DeLauro says the bishops are rejecting the tradition established by John F. Kennedy that Catholic politicians vote according to their conscience, not the dictates of Rome.

But John Myers, the archbishop of Newark, N.J., says bishops have every right to lobby Congress and influence laws.

"I don't think it was improper because what we talked about is moral issues, and if anyone has the responsibility and the right to speak out on moral issues, it is religious leaders," Myers says.

He says bishops are becoming more assertive because they feel the country is reaching a moral tipping point: Abortion remains legal, President Obama lifted a ban on stem cell research, and a few states are allowing same-sex marriage.

They told Catholics in Maine to vote against a law allowing same-sex marriage. It was overturned last month. In Washington, D.C., the archbishop announced that Catholic Charities may have to cancel contracts with the city to provide services to the poor if a similar law passes this month.

But DeLauro says the bishops are using Holy Communion as a political weapon, and that makes her and her fellow Catholics on the Hill uncomfortable.

"I think every Catholic member of this body who walks into a church to receive the sacrament of the Eucharist has at the back of their mind that they could be potentially denied," she says.

Now, Catholic senators will have to consider that issue as they vote on their version of health care overhaul. The bishops have sent a letter, saying they will oppose any bill that contains funding for abortion.

Thoughts?

 

[Said1]

The Catholics Church doesn't support abortion, surprised?

 

[Avatar4321]

Several thought's actually.

First, I am glad to see the Catholic Church encourage people to stand by the values they claim to believe. I am also glad to see any organization out there encouraging a better life for people.

Second, I am glad to see Ms Pelosi actually allowing people an opportunity to vote. The idea that we shouldnt have a choice seems rather absurd continuing the mantra of the pro abortion movement.

Third, the country is reaching a tipping point. I think we all need to get invovled and speak now before we have that right violently taken from us because we failed to.

 

[Modbert]

The Catholics Church doesn't support abortion, surprised?

That's not the entire issue at hand here.

 

[Tom Clancy]

The Catholics Church doesn't support abortion, surprised?

Nope we don't.. Well.. maybe except Pelosi, but then again she might not be a Catholic after all..

 

[Modbert]

Third, the country is reaching a tipping point. I think we all need to get invovled and speak now before we have that right violently taken from us because we failed to.

By whom and for what? Last I checked, the only ones wanting anything banned is The Catholic Church.

 

[Said1]

The Catholics Church doesn't support abortion, surprised?

That's not the entire issue at hand here.

I know, but still.

 

[Modbert]

I know, but still.

The Founding Fathers did not make this country a Christian state. They had a chance to when creating the Constitution and turned down such a amendment. You know why? Because religion did not belong in politics. Yes, religion is all about morality, however, they are trying to determine the law of the land.

Did you know that once upon a time, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches both sanctioned and sanctified unions between partners of the same sex. This occurred until modern times. The ceremonies that the church used for Homosexuals was very similar to the ones for Heterosexuals.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Catholics Church doesn't support abortion, surprised?

That's not the entire issue at hand here.

The last time I checked, the clause in the First Amendment guaranteeing the right to petition the government for redress of grievances didn't include the phrase, ". . . unless you're Catholic."

 

[Modbert]

The last time I checked, the clause in the First Amendment guaranteeing the right to petition the government for redress of grievances didn't include the phrase, ". . . unless you're Catholic."

I'm not saying they shouldn't have a right to petition. I'm saying it's wrong for religion and politics to mix. There is a reason why we are suppose to have a separation of church and state. I'm willing to bet my life that you wouldn't want to live in the U.S. under Sharia law.

 

[Modbert]

By the way Cecilie:

36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

If you don't know the exact verses, they are John 18:36 and Matthew 22:21

 

[elvis]

By the way Cecilie:

36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

If you don't know the exact verses, they are John 18:36 and Matthew 22:21

Yeah. So in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, crush those babies' skulls.

 

[Modbert]

Yeah. So in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit, crush those babies' skulls.

I'm not saying that Elvis. However, if The Catholic Church is allowed to control what policies occur when push comes to shove, what kind of precedent does that set?

 

[elvis]

In your opinion, from where was Kennedy's conscience developed? if not from Rome?

 

[Modbert]

In your opinion, from where was Kennedy's conscience developed? if not from Rome?

Which Kennedy are we speaking of? Patrick? John? Robert? Ted?

 

[elvis]

In your opinion, from where was Kennedy's conscience developed? if not from Rome?

Which Kennedy are we speaking of? Patrick? John? Robert? Ted?

you quoted that they had gone away from JFK's rule of legislating from conscience, not Rome. But didn't catholicism play a huge role in developing his conscience?

 

[Modbert]

you quoted that they had gone away from JFK's rule of legislating from conscience, not Rome. But didn't catholicism play a huge role in developing his conscience?

Yes and no. One can have a conscience without being religious. There is a difference between letting the actual church pick the policy by strong arm and the politicians using their conscience that the voters voted in.

 

[elvis]

you quoted that they had gone away from JFK's rule of legislating from conscience, not Rome. But didn't catholicism play a huge role in developing his conscience?

Yes and no. One can have a conscience without being religious. There is a difference between letting the actual church pick the policy by strong arm and the politicians using their conscience that the voters voted in.

judging by the size of his family, they didn't believe in birth control, let alone abortion.

 

[Modbert]

judging by the size of his family, they didn't believe in birth control, let alone abortion.

Oh, I'm sure the Kennedys had paid for a abortion or two in their time, especially with the way John was going around.

And they were against the Death Penalty. But JFK probably committed the most adultery in the White House. Not only that, but he got women like Marilyn Monroe and other famous women of the day.

It would be like Barack Obama getting with Scarlett Johansson.

 

[elvis]

judging by the size of his family, they didn't believe in birth control, let alone abortion.

Oh, I'm sure the Kennedys had paid for a abortion or two in their time, especially with the way John was going around.

And they were against the Death Penalty. But JFK probably committed the most adultery in the White House. Not only that, but he got women like Marilyn Monroe and other famous women of the day.

It would be like Barack Obama getting with Scarlett Johansson.

what makes you think he hasn't?