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This is what I mean when I said Taibbi is just a lying, angry, douchebag hack. That "provision" in the tax code allows every single other business in America to write off interest expense. Oh, but it's bad when Wall Street does it.
No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
Yes, in many cases they were borrowing to improve the business. But don't let that inconvenient fact get in the way of your hatefest!
Since that really wasn't the case with the more egregious examples of Bain's bad behavior, no, it doesn't.
But tell you what. Let's have Mitt release all his tax records and all his business records, and let the chips fall where they may. That sounds reasonably fair to me.
This is what I mean when I said Taibbi is just a lying, angry, douchebag hack. That "provision" in the tax code allows every single other business in America to write off interest expense. Oh, but it's bad when Wall Street does it.
No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
Yes. I agree with you. But that occurs a fraction of the time. You make it sound like this is commonplace. It's not. The default rate on high yield bonds and senior loans that are used to finance leveraged buyouts averages 5%-6% over time, meaning ~95% of the time, these companies never file for bankruptcy. It's rare.
Yes, in many cases they were borrowing to improve the business. But don't let that inconvenient fact get in the way of your hatefest!
Since that really wasn't the case with the more egregious examples of Bain's bad behavior, no, it doesn't.
But tell you what. Let's have Mitt release all his tax records and all his business records, and let the chips fall where they may. That sounds reasonably fair to me.
Bain did 270 deals when Romney was there. 12 filed for bankruptcy. So you cherry pick the worst cases, lie about it - ie GS Steel - and hold those out as what commonly happens in leveraged buyouts.
And tax records have zero to do with this.
No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
Yes. I agree with you. But that occurs a fraction of the time. You make it sound like this is commonplace. It's not. The default rate on high yield bonds and senior loans that are used to finance leveraged buyouts averages 5%-6% over time, meaning ~95% of the time, these companies never file for bankruptcy. It's rare.
It shouldn't happen at all. When someone does this, they should be charged with fraud, tried in front of a jury made up of people who lost their jobs, and throw into big boy prison with a big weight lifting prisoner and a jar of vasoline...
And they should film the result for orientation day for new executives and brokers.
Real world examples?So you think that Bain Capital should have borrowed the money and then made a gift of it to the company without expecting anything in return? Why shouldn't the company be on the hook for the money if it's all used to pay Company expenses?
It isn't all used to pay company expenses, its used to buy the shares of the company from the current shareholders.
How is a leveraged buyout any different than when a company owned by the founder is financed 100% by equity and the founder refinances the company's balance sheet with 50% debt and withdraws the money? How is that economically any different than what Bain does?
Since that really wasn't the case with the more egregious examples of Bain's bad behavior, no, it doesn't.
But tell you what. Let's have Mitt release all his tax records and all his business records, and let the chips fall where they may. That sounds reasonably fair to me.
Bain did 270 deals when Romney was there. 12 filed for bankruptcy. So you cherry pick the worst cases, lie about it - ie GS Steel - and hold those out as what commonly happens in leveraged buyouts.
And tax records have zero to do with this.
Ummm. most of the deals Bain did were in the 1990's... and you could be COrky the Retard and run a business with enough capital. Not really impressed by that.
22% of Bain investments went bankrupt... 22%of 270 is more than 12.
Real world examples?It isn't all used to pay company expenses, its used to buy the shares of the company from the current shareholders.
How is a leveraged buyout any different than when a company owned by the founder is financed 100% by equity and the founder refinances the company's balance sheet with 50% debt and withdraws the money? How is that economically any different than what Bain does?
Yes. I agree with you. But that occurs a fraction of the time. You make it sound like this is commonplace. It's not. The default rate on high yield bonds and senior loans that are used to finance leveraged buyouts averages 5%-6% over time, meaning ~95% of the time, these companies never file for bankruptcy. It's rare.
It shouldn't happen at all. When someone does this, they should be charged with fraud, tried in front of a jury made up of people who lost their jobs, and throw into big boy prison with a big weight lifting prisoner and a jar of vasoline...
And they should film the result for orientation day for new executives and brokers.
lol
That's maybe the dumbest thing I've heard here this year, and that's saying something. What a great way to scare away investment and destroy jobs.
Bain did 270 deals when Romney was there. 12 filed for bankruptcy. So you cherry pick the worst cases, lie about it - ie GS Steel - and hold those out as what commonly happens in leveraged buyouts.
And tax records have zero to do with this.
Ummm. most of the deals Bain did were in the 1990's... and you could be COrky the Retard and run a business with enough capital. Not really impressed by that.
22% of Bain investments went bankrupt... 22%of 270 is more than 12.
No they didn't, doofus. 22% lost money for Bain investors. 5% went bankrupt.
And it's not that Bain was successful. They were spectacularly successful. But keep hatin'!
■Gillespie claimed that less than 5 percent of Bains investments ended up in bankruptcy. But thats what Bain claims occurred over its entire 28-year history. The Wall Street Journal reported that 22 percent of companies Bain invested in while Mr. Romney led the firm filed for bankruptcy or went out of business, and another 8 percent lost all of the money that Bain had invested.
■Gillespie said 80 percent of the companies [Romney] invested in grew. Again, Bain was referring to its entire 28-year history not just the 14-year period when Romney was in charge. There is no separate accounting of revenue growth at Bain-owned companies during Romneys years.
Ummm. most of the deals Bain did were in the 1990's... and you could be COrky the Retard and run a business with enough capital. Not really impressed by that.
22% of Bain investments went bankrupt... 22%of 270 is more than 12.
No they didn't, doofus. 22% lost money for Bain investors. 5% went bankrupt.
And it's not that Bain was successful. They were spectacularly successful. But keep hatin'!
FactCheck.org : Gillespie Twists the Facts on Bain Capital
■Gillespie claimed that less than 5 percent of Bains investments ended up in bankruptcy. But thats what Bain claims occurred over its entire 28-year history. The Wall Street Journal reported that 22 percent of companies Bain invested in while Mr. Romney led the firm filed for bankruptcy or went out of business, and another 8 percent lost all of the money that Bain had invested.
■Gillespie said 80 percent of the companies [Romney] invested in grew. Again, Bain was referring to its entire 28-year history not just the 14-year period when Romney was in charge. There is no separate accounting of revenue growth at Bain-owned companies during Romneys years.
It shouldn't happen at all. When someone does this, they should be charged with fraud, tried in front of a jury made up of people who lost their jobs, and throw into big boy prison with a big weight lifting prisoner and a jar of vasoline...
And they should film the result for orientation day for new executives and brokers.
lol
That's maybe the dumbest thing I've heard here this year, and that's saying something. What a great way to scare away investment and destroy jobs.
The only investors who'd be scared away by that are the larcenous ones, and good riddance to them.
And, then you could beat them with your baseball bat.No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
Yes. I agree with you. But that occurs a fraction of the time. You make it sound like this is commonplace. It's not. The default rate on high yield bonds and senior loans that are used to finance leveraged buyouts averages 5%-6% over time, meaning ~95% of the time, these companies never file for bankruptcy. It's rare.
It shouldn't happen at all. When someone does this, they should be charged with fraud, tried in front of a jury made up of people who lost their jobs, and throw into big boy prison with a big weight lifting prisoner and a jar of vasoline...
And they should film the result for orientation day for new executives and brokers.
So you think that Bain Capital should have borrowed the money and then made a gift of it to the company without expecting anything in return? Why shouldn't the company be on the hook for the money if it's all used to pay Company expenses?
It isn't all used to pay company expenses, its used to buy the shares of the company from the current shareholders.
So you think that Bain Capital should have borrowed the money and then made a gift of it to the company without expecting anything in return? Why shouldn't the company be on the hook for the money if it's all used to pay Company expenses?
It isn't all used to pay company expenses, its used to buy the shares of the company from the current shareholders.
Investopedia explains 'Leveraged Buyout - LBO'
In an LBO, there is usually a ratio of 90% debt to 10% equity. Because of this high debt/equity ratio, the bonds usually are not investment grade and are referred to as junk bonds. Leveraged buyouts have had a notorious history, especially in the 1980s when several prominent buyouts led to the eventual bankruptcy of the acquired companies. This was mainly due to the fact that the leverage ratio was nearly 100% and the interest payments were so large that the company's operating cash flows were unable to meet the obligation.
One of the largest LBOs on record was the acquisition of HCA Inc. in 2006 by Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR), Bain & Co., and Merrill Lynch. The three companies paid around $33 billion for the acquisition.
It can be considered ironic that a company's success (in the form of assets on the balance sheet) can be used against it as collateral by a hostile company that acquires it. For this reason, some regard LBOs as an especially ruthless, predatory tactic.
Read more: Leveraged Buyout (LBO) Definition | Investopedia
It isn't all used to pay company expenses, its used to buy the shares of the company from the current shareholders.
Investopedia explains 'Leveraged Buyout - LBO'
In an LBO, there is usually a ratio of 90% debt to 10% equity. Because of this high debt/equity ratio, the bonds usually are not investment grade and are referred to as junk bonds. Leveraged buyouts have had a notorious history, especially in the 1980s when several prominent buyouts led to the eventual bankruptcy of the acquired companies. This was mainly due to the fact that the leverage ratio was nearly 100% and the interest payments were so large that the company's operating cash flows were unable to meet the obligation.
One of the largest LBOs on record was the acquisition of HCA Inc. in 2006 by Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. (KKR), Bain & Co., and Merrill Lynch. The three companies paid around $33 billion for the acquisition.
It can be considered ironic that a company's success (in the form of assets on the balance sheet) can be used against it as collateral by a hostile company that acquires it. For this reason, some regard LBOs as an especially ruthless, predatory tactic.
Read more: Leveraged Buyout (LBO) Definition | Investopedia
I didn't notice Bain was mentioned until the second time I read this. I looked up HCA and found this article which I thought it worth adding for clarity.
Ethisphere Institute recognizes HCA among 2012 World's Most Ethical Companies
Earlier I posted clip from the movie Other People's Money. The capitalist is actually the hero of movie. Capitalism has proven itself to be economics system most capable of improving the human condition. Capitalism has also proven itself to need constant intervention. The argument is not that capitalism is evil. The argument is that some people will use capitalism with little to no regard for the humans who are affected in the process. I believe Romney has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is a person who, very similar to G. W. Bush, does not take the human condition into account when making strategic decisions.
This is what I mean when I said Taibbi is just a lying, angry, douchebag hack. That "provision" in the tax code allows every single other business in America to write off interest expense. Oh, but it's bad when Wall Street does it.
No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
BTW, you know who the biggest benefactor is when a company like Bain buys a business with debt? The owner of the business who just sold it. Had Bain not used debt, the owner would have received much less money.
and that would be bad, why?
I guess if you think the be all and end all of our economy is for the 1% to make money, yeah, that would be a bad thing if we took workers and communities into account first.
Which is what a humane and civilized society would do.
Yes, in many cases they were borrowing to improve the business. But don't let that inconvenient fact get in the way of your hatefest!
Since that really wasn't the case with the more egregious examples of Bain's bad behavior, no, it doesn't.
But tell you what. Let's have Mitt release all his tax records and all his business records, and let the chips fall where they may. That sounds reasonably fair to me.
No, it's bad when Wall Street does it to loot companies by burdening them with debts they can't repay.
Yes. I agree with you. But that occurs a fraction of the time. You make it sound like this is commonplace. It's not. The default rate on high yield bonds and senior loans that are used to finance leveraged buyouts averages 5%-6% over time, meaning ~95% of the time, these companies never file for bankruptcy. It's rare.
It shouldn't happen at all.
When someone does this, they should be charged with fraud, tried in front of a jury made up of people who lost their jobs, and throw into big boy prison with a big weight lifting prisoner and a jar of vasoline...
And they should film the result for orientation day for new executives and brokers.
