Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[ding]

the DNA of a zygote means the zygote is still a zygote and not a human being.

Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."
Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland

 

[Concerned American]

When there is a heartbeat is that a human life?

Yes! Unequivocally.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

you have no scientific argument to make.

There is no scientific argument that there were living human beings slaughtered because of Roe vs WADE. It is a religion driven argument affixed to a fictional reading of scientific findings. No science has declared a living human zygote to be a living human being equal to its mother.

Why do you deny the religious argument? Do you think Trump’s three court picks are Catholics or raised Catholic out of coincidence? Do you think their religious upbringing is anything to do their decision?

What’s the fear on your part of it being a religious argument?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Every stage along the continuum is biologically human and each point along the continuum has the full human properties appropriate to that point."
Dr. William Reville, University College Cork, Ireland

Like I said. Dr. William Reville Does not refer to a living zygote as a living hunan being Because that would be absurd. And scientists are usually bad into being absurd

 

[BS Filter]

There is no scientific argument that there were living human beings slaughtered because of Roe vs WADE. It is a religion driven argument affixed to a fictional reading of scientific findings. No science has declared a living human zygote to be a living human being equal to its mother.

Why do you deny the religious argument? Do you think Trump’s three court picks are Catholics or raised Catholic out of coincidence? Do you think their religious upbringing is anything to do their decision?

What’s the fear on your part of it being a religious argument?

Biden and Pelosi are Catholics.

 

[BS Filter]

There is no scientific argument that there were living human beings slaughtered because of Roe vs WADE. It is a religion driven argument affixed to a fictional reading of scientific findings. No science has declared a living human zygote to be a living human being equal to its mother.

Why do you deny the religious argument? Do you think Trump’s three court picks are Catholics or raised Catholic out of coincidence? Do you think their religious upbringing is anything to do their decision?

What’s the fear on your part of it being a religious argument?

It can't be a religious argument. It's a Constitutional decision.

 

[ding]

There is no scientific argument that there were living human beings slaughtered because of Roe vs WADE.

The SCOTUS ruling on Dobbs v Jackson found that abortion wasn't a constitutionally protected right and over turned Roe v Wade. So the question of when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence wasn't relevant to the case or the Court's finding.

I suspect the question of when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence will be debated by state and federal legislatures when they write their abortion laws. The answer to that question has already been answered by empirical scientific evidence; after fertilization occurs a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence.

It is disingenuous to argue abortion doesn't end the life of a genetically distinct human being when the purpose of an abortion is to terminate the pregnancy and prevent the birth of a new genetically distinct human being.

It is a religion driven argument affixed to a fictional reading of scientific findings.

Not only is that incorrect it is irrelevant to the Supreme Court's finding that abortion is not a constitutionally protected right. Furthermore, quibbling over when a human being comes into existence is an admission that it's wrong to end the life of a new genetically distinct human being because an abortion is intended to terminate the pregnancy and birth of a new genetically distinct human being.

No science has declared a living human zygote to be a living human being equal to its mother.

It's not the job of science to address the question of precedence of rights. The only job of science is to inform the legislatures of when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence - which is after fertilization. It's the state and federal legislature's job to weigh the rights of all parties and craft laws with the appropriate balance.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

It can't be a religious argument. It's a Constitutional decision.

Why not?

 

[ding]

Why do you deny the religious argument?

I already addressed this. It's not a religious issue. It's a human rights issue. It's a debate upon when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence and when rights convey to new genetically distinct human beings. The first question has already been answered by empirical scientific evidence. The second question has yet to be decided on a federal level but has been addressed at the state level and will most likely be revisited again given now that Roe v Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court.

Do you think Trump’s three court picks are Catholics or raised Catholic out of coincidence?

No idea. They were confirmed by the Senate. If judicial activism concerns existed because of their religious affiliation, that would have been the time to address it.

Do you think their religious upbringing is anything to do their decision?

No idea. If you were a justice would your religious upbringing have anything to do with your decision?

 

[ding]

What’s the fear on your part of it being a religious argument?

There's no fear. It's not relevant to the discussion. Like I told you before, it's not a religious debate. It's a debate upon when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence and when rights convey to new genetically distinct human beings. The first question has already been answered by empirical scientific evidence. The second question has yet to be decided on a federal level but has been addressed at the state level and will most likely be revisited again given now that Roe v Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court.

What possible purpose would a discussion on religion serve?

 

[ding]

Like I said. Dr. William Reville Does not refer to a living zygote as a living hunan being Because that would be absurd. And scientists are usually bad into being absurd

Every single embryology textbook ever published teaches that a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence after fertilization. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development.

Why are you having such a hard time admitting that abortion ends the life of a human being? It's literally the purpose of an abortion.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The SCOTUS ruling on Dobbs v Jackson found that abortion wasn't a constitutionally protected right and over turned Roe v Wade

I know. Trump/ white evangelicals and rightwing Catholics got lucky four years to appoint three Catholics who were hell bent to get there and declare that. Freedom loving multicultural Americans got lucky that SCOTUS made the decision with plenty of time better There midterms

I just filled up my tank Gas is down $.70 /gal In four weeks to $4.25


So no I’m not bothered at all about SCOTUS making an ideological decision that publicized what really concerns me - older white Trumpism Christian’s convincing enough young Americans that America was founded as a white straight Christian Nation and to restore that wonderful white male dominated time they need to elect Republicans. young Americans ain’t going there.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

It's not relevant to the discussion. Like I told you before,

Perhaps you should try just engaging in discussion before telling the other side that what you don’t want to deal with is irrelevant.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Every single embryology textbook ever published teaches that a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence after fertilization.

But they don’t say a zygote is a human being do they? If they did I assume you wouid show us.

And they definitely don’t say a human being suddenly appears at the moment of conception if that is what you are saying. It’s after fertilization - couid be nine months if you are Jewish .

 

[ding]

I know. Trump/ white evangelicals and rightwing Catholics got lucky four years to appoint three Catholics who were hell bent to get there and declare that. Freedom loving multicultural Americans got lucky that SCOTUS made the decision with plenty of time better There midterms

I just filled up my tank Gas is down $.70 /gal In four weeks to $4.25


So no I’m not bothered at all about SCOTUS making an ideological decision that publicized what really concerns me - older white Trumpism Christian’s convincing enough young Americans that America was founded as a white straight Christian Nation and to restore that wonderful white male dominated time they need to elect Republicans. young Americans ain’t going there.

That's nice.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Why are you having such a hard time admitting that abortion ends the life of a human being?

Because under the ROE ruling it doesn’t end the life of a human being - that is absurd.

It ends the life of a human created by GOD That he hopes to have a personal relationship with according to Catholic doctrine - I’m not Catholic- are you.

 

[mamooth]

Every single embryology textbook ever published teaches that a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence after fertilization.

No, they don't. That's because it's absurd.

The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development.

The same can be said about a sperm cell, showing just how stupid your claim is.

Got anything other than your endless repetitions of "BECAUSE I SAY SO!". Of course not. It's all any pro-lifer has ever had. It defies biology, logic and history, yet they still cling to it.

 

[ding]

Perhaps you should try just engaging in discussion before telling the other side that what you don’t want to deal with is irrelevant.

Because it's not a religious debate. It's a debate upon when a new genetically distinct human being comes into existence and when rights convey to new genetically distinct human beings. The first question has already been answered by empirical scientific evidence. The second question has yet to be decided on a federal level but has been addressed at the state level and will most likely be revisited again given now that Roe v Wade was overturned by the Supreme Court.

What possible purpose would a discussion on religion serve?

 

[ding]

But they don’t say a zygote is a human being do they? If they did I assume you wouid show us.

And they definitely don’t say a human being suddenly appears at the moment of conception if that is what you are saying. It’s after fertilization - couid be nine months if you are Jewish .

The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development. That's what they say.

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.”

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.”

F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”

Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

“[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being.”

Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

“Although life is a continuous process, fertilization… is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte.”

Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

“[All] organisms, however large and complex they might be as full grown, begin life as a single cell. This is true for the human being, for instance, who begins life as a fertilized ovum.”

Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co

“The first cell of a new and unique human life begins existence at the moment of conception (fertilization) when one living sperm from the father joins with one living ovum from the mother. It is in this manner that human life passes from one generation to another. Given the appropriate environment and genetic composition, the single cell subsequently gives rise to trillions of specialized and integrated cells that compose the structures and functions of each individual human body. Every human being alive today and, as far as is known scientifically, every human being that ever existed, began his or her unique existence in this manner, i.e., as one cell. If this first cell or any subsequent configuration of cells perishes, the individual dies, ceasing to exist in matter as a living being. There are no known exceptions to this rule in the field of human biology.”

James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)

“In fusing together, the male and female gametes produce a fertilized single cell, the zygote, which is the start of a new individual.”

Rand McNally, Atlas of the Body (New York: Rand McNally, 1980) 139, 144

“The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual. The penetration of the ovum by the spermatozoon, and the coming together and pooling of their respective nuclei, constitutes the process of fertilization.”

Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55

“The zygote therefore contains a new arrangement of genes on the chromosomes never before duplicated in any other individual. The offspring destined to develop from the fertilized ovum will have a genetic constitution different from anyone else in the world.”

DeCoursey, R.M., The Human Organism, 4th edition McGraw Hill Inc., Toronto, 1974. page 584

“The science of the development of the individual before birth is called embryology. It is the story of miracles, describing the means by which a single microscopic cell is transformed into a complex human being. Genetically the zygote is complete. It represents a new single celled individual.”

Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419

“A zygote (a single fertilized egg cell) represents the onset of pregnancy and the genesis of new life.”

Turner, J.S., and Helms, D.B., Lifespan Developmental, 2nd ed., CBS College Publishing (Holt, Rhinehart, Winston), 1983, page 53

“Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)… The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”

Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3

“Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism…. At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun…. The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life.”

Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, [at conception] the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.”

Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

“The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote.”

Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual.”

Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.

“In this text, we begin our description of the developing human with the formation and differentiation of the male and female sex cells or gametes, which will unite at fertilization to initiate the embryonic development of a new individual. … Fertilization takes place in the oviduct … resulting in the formation of a zygote containing a single diploid nucleus. Embryonic development is considered to begin at this point… This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development.”

Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.

“Fertilization is an important landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed… Fertilization is the procession of events that begins when a spermatozoon makes contact with a secondary oocyte or its investments… The zygote … is a unicellular embryo..”

Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O’Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.

“[The Zygote] results from the union of an oocyte and a sperm. A zygote is the beginning of a new human being. Human development begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm … unites with a female gamete or oocyte … to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.”

The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18

 

[BackAgain]

The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is not one of personhood but of development. That's what they say.


Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30


The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1


F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi


Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.


Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)


Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.


Ronan O’Rahilly and Fabiola Miller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.


Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co


James Bopp, ed., Human Life and Health Care Ethics, vol. 2 (Frederick, MD: University Publications of America, 1985)


Rand McNally, Atlas of the Body (New York: Rand McNally, 1980) 139, 144


Leslie Brainerd Arey, “Developmental Anatomy” seventh edition space (Philadelphia: Saunders, 1974), 55


DeCoursey, R.M., The Human Organism, 4th edition McGraw Hill Inc., Toronto, 1974. page 584


Thibodeau, G.A., and Anthony, C.P., Structure and Function of the Body, 8th edition, St. Louis: Times Mirror/Mosby College Publishers, St. Louis, 1988. pages 409-419


Turner, J.S., and Helms, D.B., Lifespan Developmental, 2nd ed., CBS College Publishing (Holt, Rhinehart, Winston), 1983, page 53


Carlson, Bruce M. Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3


Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943


Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974


Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3


Human Embryology, 3rd ed. Bradley M. Patten, (New York: McGraw Hill, 1968), 43.


Essentials of Human Embryology, William J. Larsen, (New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998), 1-17.


Human Embryology & Teratology, Ronan R. O’Rahilly, Fabiola Muller, (New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996), 5-55.


The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 6th ed. Keith L. Moore, Ph.D. & T.V.N. Persaud, Md., (Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1998), 2-18

Bravo! Great post.