Revolution vs. Civil War

[Mac1958]

Things will continue to change and evolve slowly. Anyone who thinks they can turn things upside down is dreaming.

The question will be whether we can work together to intelligently manage the change, or whether it will be a bumpy road, filled with wasted motion and paranoia.

“Things will continue to change and evolve slowly.”
What are these “things” you speak of?
Will these “things” be beneficial for CORE Americans?

It seems like all the “CHANGE” we’ve seen has come at the expense and compromise of CORE Americans and to the benefit of foreigners and fringe factions...I’m certain you good Americans are fed up with that bullshit....right?

Oh, you core Americans are fucked. We're going full commie. Sorry.

Haha...got it, so you’re ashamed to note the “things” you speak of?
You’ve become way too predictable.

I just don't give a shit about your opinion. If you want to think it's important to me, neat.

Hey bud...you’re posting in an open discussion forum, you do this to voice your opinion and hear the opinions of others. Did you forget how this shit works?
You said “things”...don’t be scared, what are these things?
GO!

The neat thing about posting in an open discussion forum is that I'm not required to enable nutters or play their nutter games.

I can just observe their behaviors and belch out my opinion when I feel like it!

How cool is that!

That’s super cool....AND you can avoid those pesky posters whom have a habit of calling you out and exposing your twisted, blurry, ambiguous bullshit as well....huh?
****, this is cool.

Yeah!

 

[DustyInfinity]

Hey bud...you’re posting in an open discussion forum, you do this to voice your opinion and hear the opinions of others. Did you forget how this shit works?
You said “things”...don’t be scared, what are these things?
GO!

That cat has a really creepy sense of his own self-importance. It's kind of hard to put your finger on it, but it gives me the heebie jeebies. A real weirdo.

I'm still waiting for Mac to tell us how taking working people's money and funneling it into new levels of bureaucracy is 'helping' them.

As for the OP, spot on. The 'revolution' is synonimous with the death of the constitution. I'm still waiting for our little dictators to tell us the grand plan for siphoning off wages into Utopia. They actually believe that everyone should get a government check and that people will work for 'personal fulfillment.'

 

[BlindBoo]

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does.

A blatant lie. Liberal Democrats have no such views.

They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP.

By going to war to keep chattel slavery alive, the South only accelerated the institutions demise. But don't go patting yourselves on the back, because after the North got tired of occupying the South and all the federal troops left in 1877, the former slave owners and like minded people gained control of the States governments and ushered in the Jim Crow era.

 

[BluesLegend]

All discussion of revolution and Civil War seems to be coming from the right every time they lose an election.

You may wish to re-read the Declaration of Independence, we are heading for version 2.0.

 

[rightwinger]

All discussion of revolution and Civil War seems to be coming from the right every time they lose an election.

You may wish to re-read the Declaration of Independence, we are heading for version 2.0.

Do you know what taxation without representation is?

 

[Votto]

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does.

A blatant lie. Liberal Democrats have no such views.

They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP.

By going to war to keep chattel slavery alive, the South only accelerated the institutions demise. But don't go patting yourselves on the back, because after the North got tired of occupying the South and all the federal troops left in 1877, the former slave owners and like minded people gained control of the States governments and ushered in the Jim Crow era.

Well it depends on what you mean by the term "liberal democrat".

I concede that liberals, or at least traditional liberals, used to say that they would defend your right to free speech even if they disagreed with it. But today Leftists have infiltrated the country to the point that about half the country now wants to repeal the First Amendment and ban "offensive" speech. Then we get into the realm of who judges what is offensive, assuming that at times offensive speech is needed to speak the truth. Sometimes it is. After all, Christ went to the cross for "offending" people.

Half of Americans says First Amendment 'goes too far,' speech should be censored: poll

Half of Americans say they believe the First Amendment goes too far in allowing free speech and favor some form of censorship, a new poll suggests

www.christianpost.com

As for the Second Amendment, we all know they want rid of that as well.

 

[BlindBoo]

Well it depends on what you mean by the term "liberal democrat".

I concede that liberals, or at least traditional liberals, used to say that they would defend your right to free speech even if they disagreed with it. But today Leftists have infiltrated the country to the point that about half the country now wants to repeal the First Amendment and ban "offensive" speech.

Cato has the best explanation. Conflating liberals and the far left and then demonize the liberal as somehow a Femi-nazi or enviro-nazi, or even a Demo-nazi has poisoned the dialog and has made compromise a four letter word.


"Today, those who subscribe to the principles of the American Revolution — individual liberty, limited government, the free market, and the rule of law — call themselves by a variety of terms, including conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, and liberal. We see problems with all of those terms. “Conservative” smacks of an unwillingness to change, of a desire to preserve the status quo. Only in America do people seem to refer to free‐market capitalism — the most progressive, dynamic, and ever‐changing system the world has ever known — as conservative. Additionally, many contemporary American conservatives favor state intervention in some areas, most notably in trade and into our private lives.

“Classical liberal” is a bit closer to the mark, but the word “classical” fails to capture the contemporary vibrancy of the ideas of freedom.

“Liberal” may well be the perfect word in most of the world — the liberals in societies from China to Iran to South Africa to Argentina tend to be supporters of human rights and free markets — but its meaning has clearly been altered in the contemporary United States.

The Jeffersonian philosophy that animates Cato’s work has increasingly come to be called “libertarianism” or “market liberalism.” It combines an appreciation for entrepreneurship, the market process, and lower taxes with strict respect for civil liberties and skepticism about the benefits of both the welfare state and foreign military adventurism.

This vision brings the wisdom of the American Founders to bear on the problems of today. As did the Founders, it looks to the future with optimism and excitement, eager to discover what great things women and men will do in the coming century. Market liberals appreciate the complexity of a great society, recognizing that socialism and government planning are just too clumsy for the modern world. It is — or used to be — the conventional wisdom that a more complex society needs more government, but the truth is just the opposite. The simpler the society, the less damage government planning does. Planning is cumbersome in an agricultural society, costly in an industrial economy, and impossible in the information age. Today collectivism and planning are outmoded and backward, a drag on social progress.

Libertarians have a cosmopolitan, inclusive vision for society. We applaud the progressive extension of the promises of the Declaration of Independence to more people, especially to women, African‐Americans, religious minorities, and gay and lesbian people. Our greatest challenge today is to continue to extend the promise of political freedom and economic opportunity to those who are still denied it, in our own country and around the world."

Cato's Mission

www.cato.org

 

[Brain357]

We here these terms every day now. The Left had been saying for a long time they want a "revolution" and the right says they want a "civil war" At least both sides understand that their philosophies are not compatible.

But how do we interpret what is really being conveyed here in all the hysteria?

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does. That is the true call for revolution. It is a call to overthrow a group of rich, white, slave owners and the country they started. But what they refuse to see is that the Constitution is a document that champions men's rights under God and later used to justify abolishing slavery. They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP. In fact, half of Americans now favor such things as doing away with the First Amendment and freedom of speech so that people don't ever get "offended". But this is from the crowd that disdains a Constitution that restricts their government from impeding on the rights of their subjects.

So those that call for revolution are really saying, we want whatever political power that is in power today to do away with the Constitution and start over. What they are really saying is those in power now is the only thing that can save us today. The call is to do away with human freedoms because centralized planners know best and are best capable for handling Pandemics, global warming, over population, etc. Their view is that saving the Earth, or what they view as saving the Earth, is more important than individual rights that lead to problems within society. Yes, they want revolution, but at the cost of your individual freedom.

But the political powers are what is steering things. They will be the ones who stir the pot for Revolution and allow such propaganda on Facebook and Twitter, while Big Tech censors calls for a Civil War. And the sickening part is, what the powers that be will prevail. The notion that the people have the power is but a myth on either side. The decisions have already been made for us as the Reset button will soon be pressed.

The rights philosophy of failure isn’t good for anybody.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

you’re posting in an open discussion forum, you do this to voice your opinion and hear the opinions of others. Did you forget how this shit works?

Nope. **** you and your ignorant opinions. So that's an opinion, you stinky deplorable.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

We here these terms every day now. The Left had been saying for a long time they want a "revolution" and the right says they want a "civil war" At least both sides understand that their philosophies are not compatible.

But how do we interpret what is really being conveyed here in all the hysteria?

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does. That is the true call for revolution. It is a call to overthrow a group of rich, white, slave owners and the country they started. But what they refuse to see is that the Constitution is a document that champions men's rights under God and later used to justify abolishing slavery. They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP. In fact, half of Americans now favor such things as doing away with the First Amendment and freedom of speech so that people don't ever get "offended". But this is from the crowd that disdains a Constitution that restricts their government from impeding on the rights of their subjects.

So those that call for revolution are really saying, we want whatever political power that is in power today to do away with the Constitution and start over. What they are really saying is those in power now is the only thing that can save us today. The call is to do away with human freedoms because centralized planners know best and are best capable for handling Pandemics, global warming, over population, etc. Their view is that saving the Earth, or what they view as saving the Earth, is more important than individual rights that lead to problems within society. Yes, they want revolution, but at the cost of your individual freedom.

But the political powers are what is steering things. They will be the ones who stir the pot for Revolution and allow such propaganda on Facebook and Twitter, while Big Tech censors calls for a Civil War. And the sickening part is, what the powers that be will prevail. The notion that the people have the power is but a myth on either side. The decisions have already been made for us as the Reset button will soon be pressed.

Peaceful secession is the logical direction to go ...but the left and the establishment will never let it peacefully happen .....

 

[HenryBHough]

Americans cannot be free until we develop our own Guillotine manufacturing capability.

 

[Votto]

Well it depends on what you mean by the term "liberal democrat".

I concede that liberals, or at least traditional liberals, used to say that they would defend your right to free speech even if they disagreed with it. But today Leftists have infiltrated the country to the point that about half the country now wants to repeal the First Amendment and ban "offensive" speech.

Cato has the best explanation. Conflating liberals and the far left and then demonize the liberal as somehow a Femi-nazi or enviro-nazi, or even a Demo-nazi has poisoned the dialog and has made compromise a four letter word.


"Today, those who subscribe to the principles of the American Revolution — individual liberty, limited government, the free market, and the rule of law — call themselves by a variety of terms, including conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, and liberal. We see problems with all of those terms. “Conservative” smacks of an unwillingness to change, of a desire to preserve the status quo. Only in America do people seem to refer to free‐market capitalism — the most progressive, dynamic, and ever‐changing system the world has ever known — as conservative. Additionally, many contemporary American conservatives favor state intervention in some areas, most notably in trade and into our private lives.

“Classical liberal” is a bit closer to the mark, but the word “classical” fails to capture the contemporary vibrancy of the ideas of freedom.

“Liberal” may well be the perfect word in most of the world — the liberals in societies from China to Iran to South Africa to Argentina tend to be supporters of human rights and free markets — but its meaning has clearly been altered in the contemporary United States.

The Jeffersonian philosophy that animates Cato’s work has increasingly come to be called “libertarianism” or “market liberalism.” It combines an appreciation for entrepreneurship, the market process, and lower taxes with strict respect for civil liberties and skepticism about the benefits of both the welfare state and foreign military adventurism.

This vision brings the wisdom of the American Founders to bear on the problems of today. As did the Founders, it looks to the future with optimism and excitement, eager to discover what great things women and men will do in the coming century. Market liberals appreciate the complexity of a great society, recognizing that socialism and government planning are just too clumsy for the modern world. It is — or used to be — the conventional wisdom that a more complex society needs more government, but the truth is just the opposite. The simpler the society, the less damage government planning does. Planning is cumbersome in an agricultural society, costly in an industrial economy, and impossible in the information age. Today collectivism and planning are outmoded and backward, a drag on social progress.

Libertarians have a cosmopolitan, inclusive vision for society. We applaud the progressive extension of the promises of the Declaration of Independence to more people, especially to women, African‐Americans, religious minorities, and gay and lesbian people. Our greatest challenge today is to continue to extend the promise of political freedom and economic opportunity to those who are still denied it, in our own country and around the world."

Cato's Mission

www.cato.org

I'm not much interested in labels, just world views on the proper role of government. For example, the term liberal means different things to different people. The classical use, as you point out, is the opposite of authoritarianism, but the modern liberal is anything but in opposition to authoritarianism. The modern liberal wants centralized control over everything in our lives. It is an insatiable desire for an exponentially increasing government with the view that government, and only government, can tackle the never ending problems within society and is our only hope.

I get a smirk on my face anytime I talk to libertarians, because they don't seem to understand human nature. Human nature is corrupt and even though a libertarian could theoretically assume power, the power they assume would probably change them. Case in point is the founding fathers. Here you had a group of men who despised the British crown because of its centralized control over the colonies and unfair policies as the clamored for freedom. They then fought a bloody revolution to be free, risking their very lives to do so. Then once they obtained this freedom, they inexplicably passed the Alien and Sedition Acts that made speaking out against the US government illegal. Thomas Jefferson then blew a gasket and demanded the Alien and Sedition Acts be repealed as he ran for President to do just that. Although Jefferson became President and did repeal most of the laws, he also used those laws to his benefit before doing away with them. What does this tell me, power changes people, and not for the better. What was left of the Alien and Sedition laws, FDR used to lock up innocent Japanese Americans during WW2.

Libertarians don't seem to understand the corrupting influence of power, nor do they understand the impossibility of a centralized ever expanding government that is corrupt of reversing course towards a limited government once again. Had Jefferson not have been successful when he was, which was to immediately smack down the Alien and Sedition Acts, America today would be a much darker place to live as the powers that be could have squashed all future opposition to those laws. Today, freedom of speech is being squashed by Big Tech as Big Tech censors all unfavorable news and information towards the democrat party. It is no different really than locking up people back in the days of Jefferson who spoke out against the Federalist party he ran against and jailed for it. The difference is, if a President like Jefferson got in there to weed out corruption, they would chew him up and spit him out like they did Trump.

 

[Votto]

We here these terms every day now. The Left had been saying for a long time they want a "revolution" and the right says they want a "civil war" At least both sides understand that their philosophies are not compatible.

But how do we interpret what is really being conveyed here in all the hysteria?

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does. That is the true call for revolution. It is a call to overthrow a group of rich, white, slave owners and the country they started. But what they refuse to see is that the Constitution is a document that champions men's rights under God and later used to justify abolishing slavery. They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP. In fact, half of Americans now favor such things as doing away with the First Amendment and freedom of speech so that people don't ever get "offended". But this is from the crowd that disdains a Constitution that restricts their government from impeding on the rights of their subjects.

So those that call for revolution are really saying, we want whatever political power that is in power today to do away with the Constitution and start over. What they are really saying is those in power now is the only thing that can save us today. The call is to do away with human freedoms because centralized planners know best and are best capable for handling Pandemics, global warming, over population, etc. Their view is that saving the Earth, or what they view as saving the Earth, is more important than individual rights that lead to problems within society. Yes, they want revolution, but at the cost of your individual freedom.

But the political powers are what is steering things. They will be the ones who stir the pot for Revolution and allow such propaganda on Facebook and Twitter, while Big Tech censors calls for a Civil War. And the sickening part is, what the powers that be will prevail. The notion that the people have the power is but a myth on either side. The decisions have already been made for us as the Reset button will soon be pressed.

The rights philosophy of failure isn’t good for anybody.

What does that even mean?

 

[Norman]

We here these terms every day now. The Left had been saying for a long time they want a "revolution" and the right says they want a "civil war" At least both sides understand that their philosophies are not compatible.

But how do we interpret what is really being conveyed here in all the hysteria?

For me, the right simply wants to return to Constitutional law. They don't view the US as systemically flawed to the point of having to completely eradicate the Constitution like the Left does. That is the true call for revolution. It is a call to overthrow a group of rich, white, slave owners and the country they started. But what they refuse to see is that the Constitution is a document that champions men's rights under God and later used to justify abolishing slavery. They refuse to acknowledge that white men went to war with their brothers to free slaves. They refuse to even acknowledge that America is not systemically racist today despite electing a black man twice to the Oval Office and now a black woman as VP. In fact, half of Americans now favor such things as doing away with the First Amendment and freedom of speech so that people don't ever get "offended". But this is from the crowd that disdains a Constitution that restricts their government from impeding on the rights of their subjects.

So those that call for revolution are really saying, we want whatever political power that is in power today to do away with the Constitution and start over. What they are really saying is those in power now is the only thing that can save us today. The call is to do away with human freedoms because centralized planners know best and are best capable for handling Pandemics, global warming, over population, etc. Their view is that saving the Earth, or what they view as saving the Earth, is more important than individual rights that lead to problems within society. Yes, they want revolution, but at the cost of your individual freedom.

But the political powers are what is steering things. They will be the ones who stir the pot for Revolution and allow such propaganda on Facebook and Twitter, while Big Tech censors calls for a Civil War. And the sickening part is, what the powers that be will prevail. The notion that the people have the power is but a myth on either side. The decisions have already been made for us as the Reset button will soon be pressed.

Not only left wingers are calling for a revolution - but you are correct in that the right wingers who do only want small tweaks to the constitution to stop what is essentially happening right now. Left wingers as always - want to burn down everything as it is unequal and they are big losers. Left wingers are among the most thriftious of the population - they certainly don't want to save earth or anything of the sort, that is just a front.

US is the most successful nation in the history - unimaginable human achievement, freedom will always prevail while communism will always be a death spiral. Unfortunately, we went down the path of universal democracy and naivety to an extreme degree - propelled through indoctrination by far left institutions that want to destroy civilization.

 

[KissMy]

Things will continue to change and evolve slowly. Anyone who thinks they can turn things upside down is dreaming.

The question will be whether we can work together to intelligently manage the change, or whether it will be a bumpy road, filled with wasted motion and paranoia.

You could say that we changed electing Trump, and regressed going back to Biden as well but you won't.

You are ignoring the 600 pound gorilla in the room which is, what should the role of government be in relation to our freedoms?

For example, the Left wants to do away with the First and Second Amendments, do you? Should government further curtail our freedoms?

Everything the Right Wing wants = Revolution, because it ain't Constitutional. Constitution allows unlimited immigration, no religion in government, no discrimination, white, black, wealthy, poor sections, no checking id's for sex in bathrooms, traveling, everyone votes, etc.