Republicans have a poor understanding of economics. They should have no place in making policy

[Oldstyle]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

 

[Dad2three]

What's amusing to me, Dad...is how you liberals now defend yourselves when you've been given control of something and totally screw it up. It isn't right wing "think tanks" that have been running the educational system in America for the past thirty years! Yet neither you, nor Dragonlady will admit that liberal educators and their agenda simply hasn't worked. We spend more money per student than any other country yet our kid's fall further and further behind.

So no you can't critically think or be honest and you can't refute Dragon's posts. Thanks anyways

The Powell Memo (also known as the Powell Manifesto)

In 1971, Lewis Powell, then a corporate lawyer and member of the boards of 11 corporations, wrote a memo to his friend Eugene Sydnor, Jr., the Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The memorandum was dated August 23, 1971, two months prior to Powell’s nomination by President Nixon to the U.S. Supreme Court.


..Though Powell’s memo was not the sole influence, the Chamber and corporate activists took his advice to heart and began building a powerful array of institutions designed to shift public attitudes and beliefs over the course of years and decades. The memo influenced or inspired the creation of the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the Cato Institute, Citizens for a Sound Economy, Accuracy in Academe, and other powerful organizations. Their long-term focus began paying off handsomely in the 1980s, in coordination with the Reagan Administration’s “hands-off business” philosophy.

Most notable about these institutions was their focus on education, shifting values, and movement-building — a focus we share, though often with sharply contrasting goals.*

The Powell Memo or the Powell Manifesto Text and Analysis

Are you seriously trying to say that right wingers have been running our educational system since the early 70's, Dad? Are you REALLY that delusional?

You mean cons weren't elected to boards of ed and county/state Gov't more and using influences from right wing think tanks to push their agendas since then? lol

So you really ARE going to go with the myth that right wing think tanks somehow secretly controlled our educational system for the last 30 years? Amusing...really...

No the right wing think tanks haven't had ANY influence on Gov't policy with the billions they've spent over the past 40 years *shaking head*

NOT like they influenced 'free trade' (Heritage came up with NAFTA that Ronnie gave US the day he ran for Prez in 1979

NOT like they influenced low tax rates for 'job creators'

NOT like they've influenced the war on unions

No way they could have ANY influence on education right?


Academic Bashing, Bill Berkowitz, Z Magazine, February, 2002

Corporate Ideology and Literary Criticism: How the New Right pushes the ideology of exploitation in the field of literary studies, and what to do about it. , Grover C. Furr, English Department, Montclair State University, September, 1998

Who's Behind the Attack on Liberal Professors?, Dave Johnson, Commonweal Institute, History News Network, February 10, 2003

Flunking Statistics - The right's disinformation about faculty bias, Martin Plissner, The American Prospect, December 30, 2002

Research: Researching the Researchers, Debra Viadero, Education Week, February 20, 2002

AFT Center on Privatization, American Federation of Teachers

Voucher Tricksters: The Hard Right Enters Through the Schoolhouse Door, Black Commentator, July 11, 2002

Institutes, Foundations, & Think Tanks:Conservative Influence on U.S. Public Schools, Philip E. Kovacs & Deron R. Boyles, Public Resistance, May 1, 2005

State conservative groups plan US-wide assault on education, health and tax
• State Policy Network co-ordinating plans across 34 US states
• Strategy to 'release residents from government dependency'
• Revelations come amid growing scrutiny of tax-exempt charities

State conservative groups plan US-wide assault on education health and tax US news The Guardian

KOCH POLLUTION ON CAMPUS: Academic Freedom Under Assault from Charles Koch's $50 million Campaign to Infiltrate Higher Education

KOCH POLLUTION ON CAMPUS Academic Freedom Under Assault Greenpeace

 

[Dad2three]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

So you can't refute it either?

"While education is only one area where neoconservative think tanks seek to influence public policy, it has become the issue for many neoconservatives. In this paper we focus on four think tanks—The Manhattan Institute, The American Enterprise Institute, The Heritage Foundation, and The Thomas B. Fordham Foundation—and what they are doing to reshape public schools in ways more suitable to neoconservative and corporate ends. Our goal is to problematize and critique the assertions of these think tanks, with the hope of generating a counter-narrative to their bold and influential proclamations."
Anatomy of a Movement, Jeffrey Leverich, Research Coordinator, Wisconson Education Association Council, October 3, 1998

 

[Dad2three]

Getting rid of a welfare system that rewards family dysfunction and discourages people from working?

Got a POLICY name you want to use? If not it's BULLSHIT. Please try the GOP's 'welfare' reform? Pretty please?

 

[Dad2three]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

 

[Dad2three]

A strong military?

So, NO you can't point to a POLICY. Weird the best conservative Prez in this century, Ike warned about the MIC you seem to love. The US spends over 45% of the worlds spending on 'military'. Weird right?

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie, you are so out of touch with the current economic realities, you might as well be living on another planet. In this day and age, it is possible live your life exactly have you did and still be financially screwed by the current economy.

Ronald Reagan completely restructured the US economy using many, but not all of the free market ideas touted by the Chicago School of economics, and until the worst of the damage he did is undone, nothing will change. The rich will continue to get richer, the poor will get poorer, and the middle class will continue to lose ground.

Everyone should read the Forbes article that Dad posted upthread. The bipartisan Congressional Report, which the GOP tried to bury, concludes that cutting taxes does not create jobs. All is does is facilitate the transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class, to the wealthy. This isn't the Huffington Post or MSNBC telling you this, this is Forbes, one of the most right wing, business friendly publications out there.

Prior to Reagan's economic re-structuring, every strata benefitted from growth of the GNP, and economic boom. Since the re-structuring, only the wealthy have benefitted. In addition to the tax cuts, Reagan's administration went on a spending spree the likes of which had not previously been seen, all of it on borrowed money. It gave the country the appearance of prosperity, but it was an illusion. It's like your neighbor buying a new car, new furniture and a designer wardrobe. Your think he's doing really well to be able to afford all of this stuff, but he bought everything on credit. Supposedly, the increase in tax revenues from the increased income from all of this spending, would pay for the tax cuts, but it never happened.

The next thing that Reagan did, which was straight out of the Chicago School playbook, was to declare war on the unions. His 1983 attack on the air traffic controllers union was just the opening salvo. His administratin stopped prosecuting union busting activities, and cut the Department of Labour's budget by 10%.

I'm not a huge fan of unions, personally, and I've never been a union member, but I have come to understand and appreciate that without unions, employers are free to run roughshod over their employees and there's little individuals can do to protect themselves, if the company they work for choses to ignor labour laws or even treat employees with a modicum of decency. Unions helped build a strong and resilient middle class (which is a necessity for a healthy, bibrant economy). Without them, wages, have stagnated, and the gains won through hard fought negotiations have withered away. The PR job the right has done on unions has convinced the general public that unions are the tools of Satan, and should be destroyed. They're not and they should be thanked, not vilified.

The last point I will raise in this post is that Reagan gutted the Anti-Trust Legislation. Conservatives will remind me that Reagan used anti-trust legislate to breakup AT&T early in his first administration but from that time forward, he introduced legislation which authorized the president to order an exemption for industries determined to be hurt by foreign competition. Reagan used Chicago School principles that "bigger is better" to undermine the Sherman Act, and other anti-trust laws. This set off a wave of mergers and acquisitions, which continue unabated.

With each big merger, there are job losses. Not low income job losses, but good middle class jobs. When Pfizer and Wyeth merged, and then merged with Astro-Zeneca, over 30,000 people lost their jobs among these three firms. With corporations awash with cash, they're not hiring or expanding, they're merging. Large mergers and acquisitions are slowing the recovery of jobs lost in the recession, and help to explain why there are fewer and fewer middle class jobs.

Walmart has become so large, that it can dictate wages and employment practices across the entire retail sector. And not just the retail sector, but amongst their suppliers as well. Many American companies have been forced to move manufacturing offshore to meet Walmart's price demands. Walmart's use of food stamps and Medicaid to subsidize wages are now costing every US taxpayer $2500 per year, whether you shop there or not.

It's time to break up the mega-corporations, re-write the tax code, and undo the economic damage visited upon the US economy by Saint Ronnie and the Chicago School of business, before the middle class is completely destroyed.

Who Broke America rsquo s Jobs Machine - Barry C. Lynn and Phillip Longman

People lose jobs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that if you lose your job, you either find another one in your field, or you learn a new skill.
Companies merge allowing them to produce their product more efficiently. You mention Pfizer,Wyeth and Astro-Zeneca. Those mergers kept pharmaceuticals from rising far more than they did.

Take the AZ product Caprelsa. When you get thyroid cancer and balk at the $5,700/month cost, be damned happy that AZ was able to keep the price under $10K.
Walmart isn't in business to take their employees every need. They exist for the purpose of turning a profit. They make a great deal of money, but their margin is a paltry 3-3.5%. (Microsoft last quarter made 19.57% Apple.... 20.1%)
Liberals all point at Walmart as evil but if you need a job and have no skills, you get what you can and Walmart will pay you what you're worth.

Are you willing to pay more for a product so people who didn't take advantage of all this country offered them can earn more than their worth?

Yes Walmart pressures suppliers to hold down costs. That is how they can sell you a product you can afford. Why does Apple produce IPhones in China using children forced to work 66 hours/week?

I bet you have an IPhone or some Apple product and don't feel the least bit hypocritical.

Companies like Walmart and McDonalds are the ones creating the “poverty trap”. While making record profits and their CEO’s making record salaries their employees need to supplement their income with using taxpayer funded anti-poverty programs ….AFDC, child tax credits, earned income credits, Section 8, school meals, Medicaid, WIC & home energy assistance to supplement income.


And as long as folks continue to whine about the "lazy" people who don't want to work, they are doing the bidding of the wealthy who want us to keep fighting among ourselves so that they can continue to screw us all. Maybe one of them has found a way to take their wealth with them after they die. That might explain this mentality of continuing the acquisition of wealth over all else.



The GOP does not help people unless they are a corporation.

You really don't understand how businesses are run, do you? Walmart operates on a 3% profit margin; minuscule in American business, yet it's their fault people are poor.

If you dropped out of high school when you got knocked up or arrested for selling dope and have learned no marketable skills, you are worth very little in the labor market. Just about anyone can put boxes on a shelf or move items past a scanner and count out change that a cash register computes for you. Your wage is figured, not on your skills and marketability in the labor force, but on how long it will take to train your replacement.
Walmart keeps labor costs low in order to keep the price of that 60" Vizio at $898 so you unskilled, unmotivated morons can afford one.
Let's say Target decided to pay a minimum of $15/hour to all employees. Where would you buy your flat screen? There, for $1,400 or at Walmart for $900?
Walmart is successful because there is a glut of cheap labor. They did not make their employees only qualified for minimum wage jobs.

 

[Dad2three]

The reduction of governmental regulations that were "well intended" but did more harm than good?

Is there a POLICY you are trying (and failing) to communicate Bubba?

 

[Ernie S.]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

So you applaud teaching anarchy AND socialism?

 

[Dad2three]

Ernie, you are so out of touch with the current economic realities, you might as well be living on another planet. In this day and age, it is possible live your life exactly have you did and still be financially screwed by the current economy.

Ronald Reagan completely restructured the US economy using many, but not all of the free market ideas touted by the Chicago School of economics, and until the worst of the damage he did is undone, nothing will change. The rich will continue to get richer, the poor will get poorer, and the middle class will continue to lose ground.

Everyone should read the Forbes article that Dad posted upthread. The bipartisan Congressional Report, which the GOP tried to bury, concludes that cutting taxes does not create jobs. All is does is facilitate the transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class, to the wealthy. This isn't the Huffington Post or MSNBC telling you this, this is Forbes, one of the most right wing, business friendly publications out there.

Prior to Reagan's economic re-structuring, every strata benefitted from growth of the GNP, and economic boom. Since the re-structuring, only the wealthy have benefitted. In addition to the tax cuts, Reagan's administration went on a spending spree the likes of which had not previously been seen, all of it on borrowed money. It gave the country the appearance of prosperity, but it was an illusion. It's like your neighbor buying a new car, new furniture and a designer wardrobe. Your think he's doing really well to be able to afford all of this stuff, but he bought everything on credit. Supposedly, the increase in tax revenues from the increased income from all of this spending, would pay for the tax cuts, but it never happened.

The next thing that Reagan did, which was straight out of the Chicago School playbook, was to declare war on the unions. His 1983 attack on the air traffic controllers union was just the opening salvo. His administratin stopped prosecuting union busting activities, and cut the Department of Labour's budget by 10%.

I'm not a huge fan of unions, personally, and I've never been a union member, but I have come to understand and appreciate that without unions, employers are free to run roughshod over their employees and there's little individuals can do to protect themselves, if the company they work for choses to ignor labour laws or even treat employees with a modicum of decency. Unions helped build a strong and resilient middle class (which is a necessity for a healthy, bibrant economy). Without them, wages, have stagnated, and the gains won through hard fought negotiations have withered away. The PR job the right has done on unions has convinced the general public that unions are the tools of Satan, and should be destroyed. They're not and they should be thanked, not vilified.

The last point I will raise in this post is that Reagan gutted the Anti-Trust Legislation. Conservatives will remind me that Reagan used anti-trust legislate to breakup AT&T early in his first administration but from that time forward, he introduced legislation which authorized the president to order an exemption for industries determined to be hurt by foreign competition. Reagan used Chicago School principles that "bigger is better" to undermine the Sherman Act, and other anti-trust laws. This set off a wave of mergers and acquisitions, which continue unabated.

With each big merger, there are job losses. Not low income job losses, but good middle class jobs. When Pfizer and Wyeth merged, and then merged with Astro-Zeneca, over 30,000 people lost their jobs among these three firms. With corporations awash with cash, they're not hiring or expanding, they're merging. Large mergers and acquisitions are slowing the recovery of jobs lost in the recession, and help to explain why there are fewer and fewer middle class jobs.

Walmart has become so large, that it can dictate wages and employment practices across the entire retail sector. And not just the retail sector, but amongst their suppliers as well. Many American companies have been forced to move manufacturing offshore to meet Walmart's price demands. Walmart's use of food stamps and Medicaid to subsidize wages are now costing every US taxpayer $2500 per year, whether you shop there or not.

It's time to break up the mega-corporations, re-write the tax code, and undo the economic damage visited upon the US economy by Saint Ronnie and the Chicago School of business, before the middle class is completely destroyed.

Who Broke America rsquo s Jobs Machine - Barry C. Lynn and Phillip Longman

People lose jobs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that if you lose your job, you either find another one in your field, or you learn a new skill.
Companies merge allowing them to produce their product more efficiently. You mention Pfizer,Wyeth and Astro-Zeneca. Those mergers kept pharmaceuticals from rising far more than they did.

Take the AZ product Caprelsa. When you get thyroid cancer and balk at the $5,700/month cost, be damned happy that AZ was able to keep the price under $10K.
Walmart isn't in business to take their employees every need. They exist for the purpose of turning a profit. They make a great deal of money, but their margin is a paltry 3-3.5%. (Microsoft last quarter made 19.57% Apple.... 20.1%)
Liberals all point at Walmart as evil but if you need a job and have no skills, you get what you can and Walmart will pay you what you're worth.

Are you willing to pay more for a product so people who didn't take advantage of all this country offered them can earn more than their worth?

Yes Walmart pressures suppliers to hold down costs. That is how they can sell you a product you can afford. Why does Apple produce IPhones in China using children forced to work 66 hours/week?

I bet you have an IPhone or some Apple product and don't feel the least bit hypocritical.

Companies like Walmart and McDonalds are the ones creating the “poverty trap”. While making record profits and their CEO’s making record salaries their employees need to supplement their income with using taxpayer funded anti-poverty programs ….AFDC, child tax credits, earned income credits, Section 8, school meals, Medicaid, WIC & home energy assistance to supplement income.


And as long as folks continue to whine about the "lazy" people who don't want to work, they are doing the bidding of the wealthy who want us to keep fighting among ourselves so that they can continue to screw us all. Maybe one of them has found a way to take their wealth with them after they die. That might explain this mentality of continuing the acquisition of wealth over all else.



The GOP does not help people unless they are a corporation.

You really don't understand how businesses are run, do you? Walmart operates on a 3% profit margin; minuscule in American business, yet it's their fault people are poor.

If you dropped out of high school when you got knocked up or arrested for selling dope and have learned no marketable skills, you are worth very little in the labor market. Just about anyone can put boxes on a shelf or move items past a scanner and count out change that a cash register computes for you. Your wage is figured, not on your skills and marketability in the labor force, but on how long it will take to train your replacement.
Walmart keeps labor costs low in order to keep the price of that 60" Vizio at $898 so you unskilled, unmotivated morons can afford one.
Let's say Target decided to pay a minimum of $15/hour to all employees. Where would you buy your flat screen? There, for $1,400 or at Walmart for $900?
Walmart is successful because there is a glut of cheap labor. They did not make their employees only qualified for minimum wage jobs.

Weird, PRE Reaganomics ('free trade', Corp WELFARE expansion, LARGE tax breaks for 'job creators AS they sucked out nearly 300% of the pie than they had held historically, war on unions, etc) did the US wages of the bottom 90% stagnate or fall? Or did it grow? Were there high school drop outs then?


Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite


In 1980 the top 1% earned 8.5% of total income. In 2007 they earned 23%.

In 1980 the bottom 90% earned 68% of total income. In 2007 they earned 53%.

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation

 

[Dad2three]

Ernie, you are so out of touch with the current economic realities, you might as well be living on another planet. In this day and age, it is possible live your life exactly have you did and still be financially screwed by the current economy.

Ronald Reagan completely restructured the US economy using many, but not all of the free market ideas touted by the Chicago School of economics, and until the worst of the damage he did is undone, nothing will change. The rich will continue to get richer, the poor will get poorer, and the middle class will continue to lose ground.

Everyone should read the Forbes article that Dad posted upthread. The bipartisan Congressional Report, which the GOP tried to bury, concludes that cutting taxes does not create jobs. All is does is facilitate the transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class, to the wealthy. This isn't the Huffington Post or MSNBC telling you this, this is Forbes, one of the most right wing, business friendly publications out there.

Prior to Reagan's economic re-structuring, every strata benefitted from growth of the GNP, and economic boom. Since the re-structuring, only the wealthy have benefitted. In addition to the tax cuts, Reagan's administration went on a spending spree the likes of which had not previously been seen, all of it on borrowed money. It gave the country the appearance of prosperity, but it was an illusion. It's like your neighbor buying a new car, new furniture and a designer wardrobe. Your think he's doing really well to be able to afford all of this stuff, but he bought everything on credit. Supposedly, the increase in tax revenues from the increased income from all of this spending, would pay for the tax cuts, but it never happened.

The next thing that Reagan did, which was straight out of the Chicago School playbook, was to declare war on the unions. His 1983 attack on the air traffic controllers union was just the opening salvo. His administratin stopped prosecuting union busting activities, and cut the Department of Labour's budget by 10%.

I'm not a huge fan of unions, personally, and I've never been a union member, but I have come to understand and appreciate that without unions, employers are free to run roughshod over their employees and there's little individuals can do to protect themselves, if the company they work for choses to ignor labour laws or even treat employees with a modicum of decency. Unions helped build a strong and resilient middle class (which is a necessity for a healthy, bibrant economy). Without them, wages, have stagnated, and the gains won through hard fought negotiations have withered away. The PR job the right has done on unions has convinced the general public that unions are the tools of Satan, and should be destroyed. They're not and they should be thanked, not vilified.

The last point I will raise in this post is that Reagan gutted the Anti-Trust Legislation. Conservatives will remind me that Reagan used anti-trust legislate to breakup AT&T early in his first administration but from that time forward, he introduced legislation which authorized the president to order an exemption for industries determined to be hurt by foreign competition. Reagan used Chicago School principles that "bigger is better" to undermine the Sherman Act, and other anti-trust laws. This set off a wave of mergers and acquisitions, which continue unabated.

With each big merger, there are job losses. Not low income job losses, but good middle class jobs. When Pfizer and Wyeth merged, and then merged with Astro-Zeneca, over 30,000 people lost their jobs among these three firms. With corporations awash with cash, they're not hiring or expanding, they're merging. Large mergers and acquisitions are slowing the recovery of jobs lost in the recession, and help to explain why there are fewer and fewer middle class jobs.

Walmart has become so large, that it can dictate wages and employment practices across the entire retail sector. And not just the retail sector, but amongst their suppliers as well. Many American companies have been forced to move manufacturing offshore to meet Walmart's price demands. Walmart's use of food stamps and Medicaid to subsidize wages are now costing every US taxpayer $2500 per year, whether you shop there or not.

It's time to break up the mega-corporations, re-write the tax code, and undo the economic damage visited upon the US economy by Saint Ronnie and the Chicago School of business, before the middle class is completely destroyed.

Who Broke America rsquo s Jobs Machine - Barry C. Lynn and Phillip Longman

People lose jobs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that if you lose your job, you either find another one in your field, or you learn a new skill.
Companies merge allowing them to produce their product more efficiently. You mention Pfizer,Wyeth and Astro-Zeneca. Those mergers kept pharmaceuticals from rising far more than they did.

Take the AZ product Caprelsa. When you get thyroid cancer and balk at the $5,700/month cost, be damned happy that AZ was able to keep the price under $10K.
Walmart isn't in business to take their employees every need. They exist for the purpose of turning a profit. They make a great deal of money, but their margin is a paltry 3-3.5%. (Microsoft last quarter made 19.57% Apple.... 20.1%)
Liberals all point at Walmart as evil but if you need a job and have no skills, you get what you can and Walmart will pay you what you're worth.

Are you willing to pay more for a product so people who didn't take advantage of all this country offered them can earn more than their worth?

Yes Walmart pressures suppliers to hold down costs. That is how they can sell you a product you can afford. Why does Apple produce IPhones in China using children forced to work 66 hours/week?

I bet you have an IPhone or some Apple product and don't feel the least bit hypocritical.

Companies like Walmart and McDonalds are the ones creating the “poverty trap”. While making record profits and their CEO’s making record salaries their employees need to supplement their income with using taxpayer funded anti-poverty programs ….AFDC, child tax credits, earned income credits, Section 8, school meals, Medicaid, WIC & home energy assistance to supplement income.


And as long as folks continue to whine about the "lazy" people who don't want to work, they are doing the bidding of the wealthy who want us to keep fighting among ourselves so that they can continue to screw us all. Maybe one of them has found a way to take their wealth with them after they die. That might explain this mentality of continuing the acquisition of wealth over all else.



The GOP does not help people unless they are a corporation.

You really don't understand how businesses are run, do you? Walmart operates on a 3% profit margin; minuscule in American business, yet it's their fault people are poor.

If you dropped out of high school when you got knocked up or arrested for selling dope and have learned no marketable skills, you are worth very little in the labor market. Just about anyone can put boxes on a shelf or move items past a scanner and count out change that a cash register computes for you. Your wage is figured, not on your skills and marketability in the labor force, but on how long it will take to train your replacement.
Walmart keeps labor costs low in order to keep the price of that 60" Vizio at $898 so you unskilled, unmotivated morons can afford one.
Let's say Target decided to pay a minimum of $15/hour to all employees. Where would you buy your flat screen? There, for $1,400 or at Walmart for $900?
Walmart is successful because there is a glut of cheap labor. They did not make their employees only qualified for minimum wage jobs.

"The greatest evils in our industrial system to-day are those which rise from the abuses of aggregated wealth; and our great problem is to overcome these evils and cut out these abuses. No one man can deal with this matter. It is the affair of the people as a whole. When aggregated wealth demands what is unfair, its immense power can be met only by the still greater power of the people as a whole, exerted in the only way it can be exerted, through the Government;..."
- Teddy Roosevelt 1910

The only people who are more stupid than Republicans are the people who vote for them.

 

[Dad2three]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

So you applaud teaching anarchy AND socialism?

Didn't (or couldn't) read the link huh?

"The organization that oversees the Advanced Placement curriculum, whose history course is being defended by massive, ongoing student protests in a Denver suburb, has now said that it backs those protests."


"These students recognize that the social order can -- and sometimes must -- be disrupted in the pursuit of liberty and justice. Civil disorder and social strife are at the patriotic heart of American history -- from the Boston Tea Party to the American Revolution to the Civil Rights Movement. And these events and ideas are essential within the study of a college-level, AP U.S. History course," the statement continued.




...The proposal in question would create a school board committee tasked with ensuring that all U.S. history materials taught in Jefferson County "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free enterprise system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights." The proposal also says that instructional materials "should present positive aspects of the United States and its heritage." The committee would be directed to inform the school board of any "objectionable materials" it might encounter."


lol
Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Exactly, I mean just look at what the Steel Workers union has done. I mean besides drive US steel makers into bankruptcy.

You think the unions ruined the steel industry I take it. Wasn't what happened. But I'm sure you believe it.

Had something to do with steel manufacturers here using old technology and the Japanese using new and better technology. And it had to do with the Japanese government subsidizing the steel industry so they could sell steel below cost for American manufactures. And the US government gave no help to the American steel industry.

So with a hands off government and steel company management being stuck in the past, the American steel industry took a big hit.

Now what was it the unions did to cause all that?

You think the unions ruined the steel industry I take it.

They sure didn't save the steel industry.

NOT like conservatives 'free trade' or policy like off shoring jobs to benefit management (stock options/bonuses) AND EXTREMELY low tax rates for the 'job creators (IN CHINA) helped at all right

AND EXTREMELY low tax rates for the 'job creators (IN CHINA) helped at all right

You want job creation in the US? Perhaps we should try dropping our highest in the world corporate tax rate?

You mean RECORD Corp profits and an effective rate lower than any other nation (industrialized) at 12%?


How did the US Corp taxes effect Corps PRE REAGANOMICS when they were MUCH higher?


Expert debunks claim U.S. corporate taxes are too high

The 35 percent statutory U.S. corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. But according to a paper published earlier this month by University of Southern California law professor Edward Kleinbard, many companies don't pay anywhere near that much due to the plethora of loopholes in the tax code.
Expert debunks claim U.S. corporate taxes are too high - CBS News


Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong: The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes
Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes CTJReports




Warren Buffett: ‘It Is A Myth’ That U.S. Corporate Taxes Are High


AND YOU ARE GOING TO ADDRESS MY ACTUAL POSIT ON TAXES FOR THE 'JOB CREATORS'? LOL

Perhaps we should try dropping our highest in the world corporate tax rate?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In regards to education, while it is true that the US has one of the highest per capita expenditures many other countries are outperforming US students in core curriculum. It should also be considered that the US has the highest average wages in the world, which means that American teachers and other workers in the education field receive a higher salary than most in the first world. That would drive the $$$ expended per student up to a higher level than most as well. That concept is o basic even a Republican should have been able to figure that out. That said, wages for US teachers, as compared to average wages for most other countries are quite low.

Teacher Pay U.S. Ranks 22nd Out Of 27 Countries Jack Jennings

This is why I said the US needs to invest in education.

Many public schools lack sufficient text books for all of their students. A teacher friend of mine in Nebraska routinely pays for classroom supplies out of her own pocket, as do most other teachers in her school. This is not a poor inner city school, but a school in a middle class neighbourhood in the mid-West. Average salaries in the US are $55K per year. Average teacher salaries in the US are $45K. Why would anyone spend money to get a degree, and a teacher's certificate - 6 years of post-secondary education, to work for $45K per year? That's the same level of education you need to be a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant, all of which pay substantially more money.

Countries which pay teachers a salary in keeping with their level of education and experience, are outperforming the US in education, and this bodes very poorly for the economic future of the country.

Our education system is an absolute failure ... we agree. We invest more in education than any other country in the world ... we agree.

So, tell me, where does all this money go? You want more money for teachers .... forgetting, conveniently, that these are the people who have created this failed system. Why should we reward failure?

The right wing arguments against the War on Poverty/education/Etc always boil down to: See, these programs that we have underfunded or cut back or otherwise hobbled don't work now that we have broken them. So give more money to rich people!



"Here, let me show why this social program you like is so dysfunctional because we gutted funding for it, so now it should be stopped because obviously government doesn't work."

The right wing arguments against the War on Poverty/education/Etc always boil down to: See, these programs that we have underfunded or cut back

Look at the money we've spent and still spend on these programs and tell us when they've ever been underfunded.

You mean like not recognizing the good they do and instead knock of recipients money (like SNAP) and instead increase Corp welfare (also through SNAP program) like the GOP does? lol

You mean like not recognizing the good they do

You mean keeping generations of blacks trapped in poverty?

I'm against corporate welfare too.
Lets end it. Starting with green energy.

 

[Oldstyle]

Now I have to sit through one of Dad's "spam fests" where he scours liberal internet sites to back up yet another absurd claim.

Is there any "rational" liberal out there who won't admit that the US educational system has been dominated by liberals for much of the past 30 years?

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie, you are so out of touch with the current economic realities, you might as well be living on another planet. In this day and age, it is possible live your life exactly have you did and still be financially screwed by the current economy.

Ronald Reagan completely restructured the US economy using many, but not all of the free market ideas touted by the Chicago School of economics, and until the worst of the damage he did is undone, nothing will change. The rich will continue to get richer, the poor will get poorer, and the middle class will continue to lose ground.

Everyone should read the Forbes article that Dad posted upthread. The bipartisan Congressional Report, which the GOP tried to bury, concludes that cutting taxes does not create jobs. All is does is facilitate the transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class, to the wealthy. This isn't the Huffington Post or MSNBC telling you this, this is Forbes, one of the most right wing, business friendly publications out there.

Prior to Reagan's economic re-structuring, every strata benefitted from growth of the GNP, and economic boom. Since the re-structuring, only the wealthy have benefitted. In addition to the tax cuts, Reagan's administration went on a spending spree the likes of which had not previously been seen, all of it on borrowed money. It gave the country the appearance of prosperity, but it was an illusion. It's like your neighbor buying a new car, new furniture and a designer wardrobe. Your think he's doing really well to be able to afford all of this stuff, but he bought everything on credit. Supposedly, the increase in tax revenues from the increased income from all of this spending, would pay for the tax cuts, but it never happened.

The next thing that Reagan did, which was straight out of the Chicago School playbook, was to declare war on the unions. His 1983 attack on the air traffic controllers union was just the opening salvo. His administratin stopped prosecuting union busting activities, and cut the Department of Labour's budget by 10%.

I'm not a huge fan of unions, personally, and I've never been a union member, but I have come to understand and appreciate that without unions, employers are free to run roughshod over their employees and there's little individuals can do to protect themselves, if the company they work for choses to ignor labour laws or even treat employees with a modicum of decency. Unions helped build a strong and resilient middle class (which is a necessity for a healthy, bibrant economy). Without them, wages, have stagnated, and the gains won through hard fought negotiations have withered away. The PR job the right has done on unions has convinced the general public that unions are the tools of Satan, and should be destroyed. They're not and they should be thanked, not vilified.

The last point I will raise in this post is that Reagan gutted the Anti-Trust Legislation. Conservatives will remind me that Reagan used anti-trust legislate to breakup AT&T early in his first administration but from that time forward, he introduced legislation which authorized the president to order an exemption for industries determined to be hurt by foreign competition. Reagan used Chicago School principles that "bigger is better" to undermine the Sherman Act, and other anti-trust laws. This set off a wave of mergers and acquisitions, which continue unabated.

With each big merger, there are job losses. Not low income job losses, but good middle class jobs. When Pfizer and Wyeth merged, and then merged with Astro-Zeneca, over 30,000 people lost their jobs among these three firms. With corporations awash with cash, they're not hiring or expanding, they're merging. Large mergers and acquisitions are slowing the recovery of jobs lost in the recession, and help to explain why there are fewer and fewer middle class jobs.

Walmart has become so large, that it can dictate wages and employment practices across the entire retail sector. And not just the retail sector, but amongst their suppliers as well. Many American companies have been forced to move manufacturing offshore to meet Walmart's price demands. Walmart's use of food stamps and Medicaid to subsidize wages are now costing every US taxpayer $2500 per year, whether you shop there or not.

It's time to break up the mega-corporations, re-write the tax code, and undo the economic damage visited upon the US economy by Saint Ronnie and the Chicago School of business, before the middle class is completely destroyed.

Who Broke America rsquo s Jobs Machine - Barry C. Lynn and Phillip Longman

People lose jobs. It's a fact of life. Another fact is that if you lose your job, you either find another one in your field, or you learn a new skill.
Companies merge allowing them to produce their product more efficiently. You mention Pfizer,Wyeth and Astro-Zeneca. Those mergers kept pharmaceuticals from rising far more than they did.

Take the AZ product Caprelsa. When you get thyroid cancer and balk at the $5,700/month cost, be damned happy that AZ was able to keep the price under $10K.
Walmart isn't in business to take their employees every need. They exist for the purpose of turning a profit. They make a great deal of money, but their margin is a paltry 3-3.5%. (Microsoft last quarter made 19.57% Apple.... 20.1%)
Liberals all point at Walmart as evil but if you need a job and have no skills, you get what you can and Walmart will pay you what you're worth.

Are you willing to pay more for a product so people who didn't take advantage of all this country offered them can earn more than their worth?

Yes Walmart pressures suppliers to hold down costs. That is how they can sell you a product you can afford. Why does Apple produce IPhones in China using children forced to work 66 hours/week?

I bet you have an IPhone or some Apple product and don't feel the least bit hypocritical.

Companies like Walmart and McDonalds are the ones creating the “poverty trap”. While making record profits and their CEO’s making record salaries their employees need to supplement their income with using taxpayer funded anti-poverty programs ….AFDC, child tax credits, earned income credits, Section 8, school meals, Medicaid, WIC & home energy assistance to supplement income.


And as long as folks continue to whine about the "lazy" people who don't want to work, they are doing the bidding of the wealthy who want us to keep fighting among ourselves so that they can continue to screw us all. Maybe one of them has found a way to take their wealth with them after they die. That might explain this mentality of continuing the acquisition of wealth over all else.



The GOP does not help people unless they are a corporation.

You really don't understand how businesses are run, do you? Walmart operates on a 3% profit margin; minuscule in American business, yet it's their fault people are poor.

If you dropped out of high school when you got knocked up or arrested for selling dope and have learned no marketable skills, you are worth very little in the labor market. Just about anyone can put boxes on a shelf or move items past a scanner and count out change that a cash register computes for you. Your wage is figured, not on your skills and marketability in the labor force, but on how long it will take to train your replacement.
Walmart keeps labor costs low in order to keep the price of that 60" Vizio at $898 so you unskilled, unmotivated morons can afford one.
Let's say Target decided to pay a minimum of $15/hour to all employees. Where would you buy your flat screen? There, for $1,400 or at Walmart for $900?
Walmart is successful because there is a glut of cheap labor. They did not make their employees only qualified for minimum wage jobs.

Weird, PRE Reaganomics ('free trade', Corp WELFARE expansion, LARGE tax breaks for 'job creators AS they sucked out nearly 300% of the pie than they had held historically, war on unions, etc) did the US wages of the bottom 90% stagnate or fall? Or did it grow? Were there high school drop outs then?


Third World countries. One of the things they all had in common was a small, very rich elite, small middle class, and a large lower class. They also shared very low economic growth as a result. This has been known for at least 50 years. The US has been going in this direction for at least the last 30 years as we have gradually de-industrialized and government policies (such as trickle down economics) have promoted the shift of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the economic elite


In 1980 the top 1% earned 8.5% of total income. In 2007 they earned 23%.

In 1980 the bottom 90% earned 68% of total income. In 2007 they earned 53%.

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation

Sad isn't it that more and more people become worth less and less every year?

Again, idiot. The fact that you are only worth $6.50/hour is because your only skill is flipping burgers. That is NOT Walmart's fault.

 

[Dad2three]

You think the unions ruined the steel industry I take it. Wasn't what happened. But I'm sure you believe it.

Had something to do with steel manufacturers here using old technology and the Japanese using new and better technology. And it had to do with the Japanese government subsidizing the steel industry so they could sell steel below cost for American manufactures. And the US government gave no help to the American steel industry.

So with a hands off government and steel company management being stuck in the past, the American steel industry took a big hit.

Now what was it the unions did to cause all that?

You think the unions ruined the steel industry I take it.

They sure didn't save the steel industry.

NOT like conservatives 'free trade' or policy like off shoring jobs to benefit management (stock options/bonuses) AND EXTREMELY low tax rates for the 'job creators (IN CHINA) helped at all right

AND EXTREMELY low tax rates for the 'job creators (IN CHINA) helped at all right

You want job creation in the US? Perhaps we should try dropping our highest in the world corporate tax rate?

You mean RECORD Corp profits and an effective rate lower than any other nation (industrialized) at 12%?


How did the US Corp taxes effect Corps PRE REAGANOMICS when they were MUCH higher?


Expert debunks claim U.S. corporate taxes are too high

The 35 percent statutory U.S. corporate tax rate is the highest in the world. But according to a paper published earlier this month by University of Southern California law professor Edward Kleinbard, many companies don't pay anywhere near that much due to the plethora of loopholes in the tax code.
Expert debunks claim U.S. corporate taxes are too high - CBS News


Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong: The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes
Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes CTJReports




Warren Buffett: ‘It Is A Myth’ That U.S. Corporate Taxes Are High


AND YOU ARE GOING TO ADDRESS MY ACTUAL POSIT ON TAXES FOR THE 'JOB CREATORS'? LOL

Perhaps we should try dropping our highest in the world corporate tax rate?

IGNORE EVERYTHING BUBBA

"Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong: The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes

Bernie Sanders Is Right and the Tax Foundation Is Wrong The U.S. Has Very Low Corporate Income Taxes CTJReports




Warren Buffett: ‘It Is A Myth’ That U.S. Corporate Taxes Are High


AND YOU ARE GOING TO ADDRESS MY ACTUAL POSIT ON TAXES FOR THE 'JOB CREATORS'? LOL"

OR PERHAPS, PUSH THE GOP TO ACCEPT OBAMA'S PROPOSAL TO DROP IT AND GET RID OF LOOPHOLES AND WRITE OFFS AND USE THE EXTRA MONEY FOR REBUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE? LOL

Hint, guess who lobbies AGAINST dropping the tax rates? CORPORATIONS BENEFITING FROM PAYING AMONG THE LOWEST EFFECTIVE TAX RATES IN THE WORLD IN THE US!!!

 

[Ernie S.]

Dad needs to blame Rush Limbaugh, The Heritage Foundation, the Koch brothers and FOX NEWS for a failing educational system because he can't bring himself to admit that liberals HAVE controlled our educational system for quite some time now and it's in awful shape.

'Liberals' teach at educational systems, it's generally conservatives who run Ed departs (county/city/etc)...

Weird other nations that lead US in the things we score, THEY are lead by liberals??? lol

Feel free to back up your contention that conservatives "run" education departments, Dad. I think that is a claim that is totally false.

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

So you applaud teaching anarchy AND socialism?

Didn't (or couldn't) read the link huh?

"The organization that oversees the Advanced Placement curriculum, whose history course is being defended by massive, ongoing student protests in a Denver suburb, has now said that it backs those protests."


"These students recognize that the social order can -- and sometimes must -- be disrupted in the pursuit of liberty and justice. Civil disorder and social strife are at the patriotic heart of American history -- from the Boston Tea Party to the American Revolution to the Civil Rights Movement. And these events and ideas are essential within the study of a college-level, AP U.S. History course," the statement continued.




...The proposal in question would create a school board committee tasked with ensuring that all U.S. history materials taught in Jefferson County "promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free enterprise system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights." The proposal also says that instructional materials "should present positive aspects of the United States and its heritage." The committee would be directed to inform the school board of any "objectionable materials" it might encounter."


lol
Students Protesting Conservative Rewrite Of History Get Their Most Important Endorsement Yet

I read enough of it to recognize tripe.

 

[Dad2three]

In regards to education, while it is true that the US has one of the highest per capita expenditures many other countries are outperforming US students in core curriculum. It should also be considered that the US has the highest average wages in the world, which means that American teachers and other workers in the education field receive a higher salary than most in the first world. That would drive the $$$ expended per student up to a higher level than most as well. That concept is o basic even a Republican should have been able to figure that out. That said, wages for US teachers, as compared to average wages for most other countries are quite low.

Teacher Pay U.S. Ranks 22nd Out Of 27 Countries Jack Jennings

This is why I said the US needs to invest in education.

Many public schools lack sufficient text books for all of their students. A teacher friend of mine in Nebraska routinely pays for classroom supplies out of her own pocket, as do most other teachers in her school. This is not a poor inner city school, but a school in a middle class neighbourhood in the mid-West. Average salaries in the US are $55K per year. Average teacher salaries in the US are $45K. Why would anyone spend money to get a degree, and a teacher's certificate - 6 years of post-secondary education, to work for $45K per year? That's the same level of education you need to be a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant, all of which pay substantially more money.

Countries which pay teachers a salary in keeping with their level of education and experience, are outperforming the US in education, and this bodes very poorly for the economic future of the country.

Our education system is an absolute failure ... we agree. We invest more in education than any other country in the world ... we agree.

So, tell me, where does all this money go? You want more money for teachers .... forgetting, conveniently, that these are the people who have created this failed system. Why should we reward failure?

The right wing arguments against the War on Poverty/education/Etc always boil down to: See, these programs that we have underfunded or cut back or otherwise hobbled don't work now that we have broken them. So give more money to rich people!



"Here, let me show why this social program you like is so dysfunctional because we gutted funding for it, so now it should be stopped because obviously government doesn't work."

The right wing arguments against the War on Poverty/education/Etc always boil down to: See, these programs that we have underfunded or cut back

Look at the money we've spent and still spend on these programs and tell us when they've ever been underfunded.

You mean like not recognizing the good they do and instead knock of recipients money (like SNAP) and instead increase Corp welfare (also through SNAP program) like the GOP does? lol

You mean like not recognizing the good they do

You mean keeping generations of blacks trapped in poverty?

I'm against corporate welfare too.
Lets end it. Starting with green energy.

Sure you are Bubba. Sure

 

[Dad2three]

Now I have to sit through one of Dad's "spam fests" where he scours liberal internet sites to back up yet another absurd claim.

Is there any "rational" liberal out there who won't admit that the US educational system has been dominated by liberals for much of the past 30 years?

How about ONE honest conservative today? Anyone?