Republican Austerity compared to Greek Austerity

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Republicans drool over the prospect of Greek type austerity.

"Now I understand why the Republicans get 1% of the vote. The richest 1%. That other 49%? Someone will have to explain to me." ~ Bill Maher


Exclusive Interview: Meet Alexis Tsipras, the Most Dangerous Man in Europe

Oligarchs are watching the rise of Greece's opposition Syriza party leader with alarm. But he may be the best, brightest hope for the people.

alexis_tsipras.jpg


Lynn Stuart Parramore
February 12, 2013

Greece has become the hellish microcosm of Europe's failed austerity policies. Politicans bargain with unscrupulous financiers as formerly middle-class people sort through garbage for food and shiver beside smoke-belching wood fires. Burdened by widespread corruption, sky-high unemployment, and plans to pay off the banks at any cost to the people, the country is headed to the breaking point.

The New Democracy party, currently in power, is struggling for dominance over left-wing Syriza, led by Alexis Tsipras, a bold young politician who many believe is Greece's brightest hope. His revolutionary idea? Economic policies linked to the needs of ordinary people. For those who benefit from the current disaster, this makes him a very dangerous man.

Recently, Tsipras visited the U.S. on a campaign to counter his opponents' image of him as a wild-eyed radical and to share his vision of a more equitable, human-centered economy. I caught up with Tsipras during his trip, and far from his opponents' portrait, I found him a pragmatic, thoughtful leader well-versed in economics and eager to discuss the details of a transformation that will benefit not only Greece, but the rest of us, too. The following interview was conducted via email following our meeting.

<snip>


L[ynn] P[aramor]: What lessons should Americans take from the Greek crisis?

A[lexis] T[sipras]: The European Union is utilizing the crisis in order to rewrite the political history of Europe. The post-war design of Europe’s economies is under revision. The celebrated "European social model" which, until recently supposedly differentiated Europe from the United States, is unravelling. At the same time, Europe is not moving in the direction of America; it is, rather, moving in the wrong direction altogether. The United States, with its federal unemployment benefit system, its Medicaid and Medicare provisions, possesses checks and balances that the Eurozone does not have. And as the nation-states of Europe are being hollowed out by austerity-driven policies, while European institutions are not stepping in to make up for the lost social, welfare and rebalancing services, today’s United States is closer to the famed European social model than Europe is!

So, the most important lesson for the United States from the Greek crisis is that it is suicidal to try to deal with the federal debt by means of an austerity which attacks federal programs, such as Social Security, whose purpose is to shield America’s social economy from both recession and internal imbalances. Basic incomes, public health provisions, public education, social cohesion, environmental protection – these are the public goods that, if depleted in the context of fiscal consolidation, will bite your people back, and in the end, jeopardize not only America’s shared prosperity but also its capacity to repay its debts. It is for this utterly pragmatic reason that we must defend our public goods, both in Europe and in America.

Americans do not have the luxury of thinking: “These things are happening in Greece. Why should we care?” If we do not emancipate our societies on both sides of the Atlantic from speculative finance and from the notion that the crisis must be paid by the weaker members of our society, America and Europe alike will continue to live under the crisis’ cloud. But if we recognize the regenerative power of democracy, of politics, of our peoples, we will be in a position to change the world for the better.
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The country of Greece will never recover, this is an entire country of over bearing parents that are bent on controlling the lives of there children, in Greece, they don't build houses, they build duplexes, so that the newly wedded child can move in with his wife ( because the economy would not permit them have there own place ). From this point as the grown child, you will have your in-laws running your life, and you will be kissing there asses, or your in-laws will just call there friend and get you fired from your job, now you have no money and are unable to support your family, so now you find yourself in a position to submit the the will of your in-laws or YOU ARE FUCKED.
This is the underlying fall of the Greek economy, this bullshit overbearing parent driven government that offers absolutely NO OPPORTUNITY to excel in life, thus they will pretend to work, as the in-laws pretend to pay them, thus the end product is a piece of shit.
Thus the fall of the Greek economy.

Ask any Greek from that country, they will verify my post on this subject.
 
The country of Greece will never recover, this is an entire country of over bearing parents that are bent on controlling the lives of there children, in Greece, they don't build houses, they build duplexes, so that the newly wedded child can move in with his wife ( because the economy would not permit them have there own place ). From this point as the grown child, you will have your in-laws running your life, and you will be kissing there asses, or your in-laws will just call there friend and get you fired from your job, now you have no money and are unable to support your family, so now you find yourself in a position to submit the the will of your in-laws or YOU ARE FUCKED.
This is the underlying fall of the Greek economy, this bullshit overbearing parent driven government that offers absolutely NO OPPORTUNITY to excel in life, thus they will pretend to work, as the in-laws pretend to pay them, thus the end product is a piece of shit.
Thus the fall of the Greek economy.

Ask any Greek from that country, they will verify my post on this subject.


Why project what you -feel- Greeks are thinking, when we have the answer from a
"Greek from that country." But Lynn Paramor didn't ask just any Greek, Paramor asked
the guy that will probably-----probably be the next Prime Minister of Greece.

BTW there's a poster on this M/B whose wife is Greek, maybe he'll talk to his wife then
weigh in on your projections.


Exclusive Interview: Meet Alexis Tsipras, the Most Dangerous Man in Europe

L[ynn] P]aramor]: Why has austerity been so destructive, and what is the alternative?

A[lexis] T[sipras]: It is impossible to resolve a crisis by removing liquidity from a receding economy. On the contrary, contractionary policies worsen the crisis, and this has been proved beyond reasonable doubt in the case of Greece. Unemployment becomes self-reinforcing, small firms close down, the economy dies out. At the same time, the steady deterioration becomes a pretext for further cuts in pay and salaries, for the removal of workers’ rights and other social safety nets, and for the transfer of public assets to private hands. The remedy thus turns out to be far worse than the disease.

The crisis will be resolved only if there is a plan for reconstructing the economy’s productive engine from below. From the labor market and the welfare state, where wages and pensions must be supported, to small businesses that demand credit lines and access to investment funding. Instead of imposing increasing tax rates on the poor and those who simply can no longer pay, what we need is an increase in public investment. Instead of tax relief for the rich, we need a just tax system. Instead of pressing the economy in the service of bankers, we need a banking system that serves society at large, that supports development. Only in this way can the vicious cycle of austerity and recession be broken, so that the social economy begins functioning again.


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We live in ironic times in some ways. For years now, Republicans are synonymous with all things anti-Europe. Even during President Obama's first term, "European-style Socialism" was a popular phrase uttered by them about him.

However, the current Republican plan resembles precisely the austerity-only measures that gave Europe a double-dip recession.

On this side of the pond, we went the way of spending mixed with austerity, and it has given us a fragile recovery even at a time when China is slowing down.

We were right to enact the stimulus measures we did. What we now know and what is being repeated by even conservative Wall Street types is that our stimulus should have actually been somewhat higher.

A balanced approach works. Austerity alone makes things worse.

America has to walk and chew gum at the same time and it's going to take congressional Republicans to get with the program. John Boehner must be thinking about "legacy" and I know he wants to be able to pass some things that actually help the country along. But he's stuck with unreasonable people who number well over half of the caucus he's got.

Now with Afghanistan winding down and employment slowly recovering, we're seeing the budget deficits start to get smaller, three years running now. We should see them fall some more with some of the measures that passed before the new year.

If we can make some sensible cuts that don't hurt regular folks while raising more revenue by adjusting loopholes in the tax code--which many Republicans agree with--we can both reduce the size of the deficits some more while at the same time making investments in research and development and other areas that produce results, just like the budget we saw with Bill Clinton and the Republicans, only about twice as large this time.
 
Greece is a very special case. It is in no way typical of anything in Europe.

The country was basically bankrupt a couple of years ago, and won't be in the black again for a decade or so, if that.

The same can not be said of Germany or France or even Spain, where an improvement in economic conditions would see the country right itself within a few years.
 
Greece is a great example of a heavy handed state that retards private enterprise through taxation and regulation.
It is the model for Team Obama.
 
Greece is a great example of a heavy handed state that retards private enterprise through taxation and regulation.
It is the model for Team Obama.

Um....you do realise that Greece had right wing government for years, right?

And that most of the dodgy deals which threw Greece off the cliff occured under right wing governments?

Honestly - why post if you have no idea of the facts?

Do you think guessing makes you look cool?

New Democracy (Greek: &#925;&#941;&#945; &#916;&#951;&#956;&#959;&#954;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#943;&#945;, Néa Dimokratía, literally New Republic, also known by its acronym &#925;&#916;, ND) is the main centre-right political party and one of the two major parties in Greece. Its leader, Antonis Samaras, is the Prime Minister of Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democracy_(Greece)
 
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Greece is a great example of a heavy handed state that retards private enterprise through taxation and regulation.
It is the model for Team Obama.

Um....you do realise that Greece had right wing government for years, right?

And that most of the dodgy deals which threw Greece off the cliff occured under right wing governments?

Honestly - why post if you have no idea of the facts?

Do you think guessing makes you look cool?

New Democracy (Greek: &#925;&#941;&#945; &#916;&#951;&#956;&#959;&#954;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#943;&#945;, Néa Dimokratía, literally New Republic, also known by its acronym &#925;&#916;, ND) is the main centre-right political party and one of the two major parties in Greece. Its leader, Antonis Samaras, is the Prime Minister of Greece.

New Democracy (Greece) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You understand that "right wing" in Greece is not right wing in AMerica, right?

Neg rep for stupidity and bad judgment.
 
Greece is a great example of a heavy handed state that retards private enterprise through taxation and regulation.
It is the model for Team Obama.

Um....you do realise that Greece had right wing government for years, right?

And that most of the dodgy deals which threw Greece off the cliff occured under right wing governments?

Honestly - why post if you have no idea of the facts?

Do you think guessing makes you look cool?

New Democracy (Greek: &#925;&#941;&#945; &#916;&#951;&#956;&#959;&#954;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#943;&#945;, Néa Dimokratía, literally New Republic, also known by its acronym &#925;&#916;, ND) is the main centre-right political party and one of the two major parties in Greece. Its leader, Antonis Samaras, is the Prime Minister of Greece.

New Democracy (Greece) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I looked at your link.

Ideology: Liberal conservatism
Conservatism
Christian democracy
Pro-Europeanism

Then I clicked on this:
Political position: Centre-right

and got this:

The centre-right also referred to as the moderate right, describes adherence to views leaning to the right but closer to the centre on the left-right political spectrum than other right wing variants.

and then I had to laugh!

How many labels do we need?

I must be tired. :eusa_angel:
 
You understand that "right wing" in Greece is not right wing in AMerica, right?

Neg rep for stupidity and bad judgment.

When you are proven wrong, it's aways nice to be honest enough to admit it - rather than the neg rep the people who just got you up to speed.

btw. "Right wng" means "right wing" in Greece and the US.
 
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You understand that "right wing" in Greece is not right wing in AMerica, right?

Neg rep for stupidity and bad judgment.

When you are proven wrong, it's aways nice to be honest enough to admit it - rather than the neg rep the people who just got you up to speed.

Thanks for admitting I was able to educate you in this. I accept your humble apology.
 
Greece and the United States are so different in so many ways that a comparison of the results of applying "austerity" is next to impossible.

If I recall correctly, the Greeks retire at 53 or so and leech off the government and their children until they die at a ripe old age.

I am 70, still working and have nightmares at the thought of my children having to assist me as my body shrivels up around its bones. I want to be shot in the ass by a jealous husband!
 
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Greece is a great example of a heavy handed state that retards private enterprise through taxation and regulation.
It is the model for Team Obama.

Um....you do realise that Greece had right wing government for years, right?

Horseshit. Did they cut spending? Did cut regulations? Did they reduce the size of government? They were only "right-wing" in the crypto-euro socialist sense of the term. In other words, they wanted to plunge into the socialist toilet bowl at half the speed of the "left-wing" government.

And that most of the dodgy deals which threw Greece off the cliff occured under right wing governments?

What "dodgy deals?"
 
You understand that "right wing" in Greece is not right wing in AMerica, right?

Neg rep for stupidity and bad judgment.

When you are proven wrong, it's aways nice to be honest enough to admit it - rather than the neg rep the people who just got you up to speed.

btw. "Right wng" means "right wing" in Greece and the US.

European socialists like you keep telling us that Democrats aren't socialist, so we can just discard any opinions you have about the "right-wing" in America.
 
BriPat -

The US Democrats patently are not socialist, and anyone who thinks they are has never been to a socialist country.

Many US Dems are in fact identical to the social democrats infesting Europe.
But thanks for playing. Now go take your opinions somwhere else.
 
The country of Greece will never recover, this is an entire country of over bearing parents that are bent on controlling the lives of there children, in Greece, they don't build houses, they build duplexes, so that the newly wedded child can move in with his wife ( because the economy would not permit them have there own place ). From this point as the grown child, you will have your in-laws running your life, and you will be kissing there asses, or your in-laws will just call there friend and get you fired from your job, now you have no money and are unable to support your family, so now you find yourself in a position to submit the the will of your in-laws or YOU ARE FUCKED.
This is the underlying fall of the Greek economy, this bullshit overbearing parent driven government that offers absolutely NO OPPORTUNITY to excel in life, thus they will pretend to work, as the in-laws pretend to pay them, thus the end product is a piece of shit.
Thus the fall of the Greek economy.

Ask any Greek from that country, they will verify my post on this subject.
I am dual Greek/American and much of what you say is true. Greece, in many respects, is a big village and the people are deeply traditional. However, you belabored the point.
 
.
Republicans drool over the prospect of Greek type austerity.

"Now I understand why the Republicans get 1% of the vote. The richest 1%. That other 49%? Someone will have to explain to me." ~ Bill Maher


Exclusive Interview: Meet Alexis Tsipras, the Most Dangerous Man in Europe

Oligarchs are watching the rise of Greece's opposition Syriza party leader with alarm. But he may be the best, brightest hope for the people.

alexis_tsipras.jpg


Lynn Stuart Parramore
February 12, 2013

Greece has become the hellish microcosm of Europe's failed austerity policies. Politicans bargain with unscrupulous financiers as formerly middle-class people sort through garbage for food and shiver beside smoke-belching wood fires. Burdened by widespread corruption, sky-high unemployment, and plans to pay off the banks at any cost to the people, the country is headed to the breaking point.

The New Democracy party, currently in power, is struggling for dominance over left-wing Syriza, led by Alexis Tsipras, a bold young politician who many believe is Greece's brightest hope. His revolutionary idea? Economic policies linked to the needs of ordinary people. For those who benefit from the current disaster, this makes him a very dangerous man.

Recently, Tsipras visited the U.S. on a campaign to counter his opponents' image of him as a wild-eyed radical and to share his vision of a more equitable, human-centered economy. I caught up with Tsipras during his trip, and far from his opponents' portrait, I found him a pragmatic, thoughtful leader well-versed in economics and eager to discuss the details of a transformation that will benefit not only Greece, but the rest of us, too. The following interview was conducted via email following our meeting.

<snip>


L[ynn] P[aramor]: What lessons should Americans take from the Greek crisis?

A[lexis] T[sipras]: The European Union is utilizing the crisis in order to rewrite the political history of Europe. The post-war design of Europe’s economies is under revision. The celebrated "European social model" which, until recently supposedly differentiated Europe from the United States, is unravelling. At the same time, Europe is not moving in the direction of America; it is, rather, moving in the wrong direction altogether. The United States, with its federal unemployment benefit system, its Medicaid and Medicare provisions, possesses checks and balances that the Eurozone does not have. And as the nation-states of Europe are being hollowed out by austerity-driven policies, while European institutions are not stepping in to make up for the lost social, welfare and rebalancing services, today’s United States is closer to the famed European social model than Europe is!

So, the most important lesson for the United States from the Greek crisis is that it is suicidal to try to deal with the federal debt by means of an austerity which attacks federal programs, such as Social Security, whose purpose is to shield America’s social economy from both recession and internal imbalances. Basic incomes, public health provisions, public education, social cohesion, environmental protection – these are the public goods that, if depleted in the context of fiscal consolidation, will bite your people back, and in the end, jeopardize not only America’s shared prosperity but also its capacity to repay its debts. It is for this utterly pragmatic reason that we must defend our public goods, both in Europe and in America.

Americans do not have the luxury of thinking: “These things are happening in Greece. Why should we care?” If we do not emancipate our societies on both sides of the Atlantic from speculative finance and from the notion that the crisis must be paid by the weaker members of our society, America and Europe alike will continue to live under the crisis’ cloud. But if we recognize the regenerative power of democracy, of politics, of our peoples, we will be in a position to change the world for the better.
.

What fracking austerity?

Does anyone actually pay enough attention to understand that what Europeans call austerity is the same thing we cal tax increases?
 

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