Removing The Burden Of America’s Original Sin

[Curried Goats]

See, there's the evidence again that your thinking is impervious to nuance and comparative values.

George Washington is NOT enlightened compared to you.
George Washington WAS enlightened when compared to peers and other men of his times.

Well I'm glad we can agree that Washington, a slaver, wasn't as enlightened as me. Lol.

He wasn't as enlightened as abolitionists or the slaves who desired to be free. So what he was as racist and bigoted and ignorant as his fellow slavers, I'm not sure what making that point accomplishes.

You know in the time of Jesus slavery was considered an unexceptional common place thing.

That's historically accurate. I don't deny that. What I deny is the notion that popularity and morality are synonymous.

One day you might grow up to discover everyone has to be seen in through the prism of
the times they lived in.
But I doubt it.

Towards what end? Certainly looking through the prism of the times helps understand the times, it doesn't absolve those times from judgement.

 

[Curried Goats]

Washington and Jefferson are on Mr. Rushmore because most people don't go through life with blinders
on and folks realize the issue of slavery doesn't define them in totality.

There you go again trying to argue morality and popularity are synonymous without actually making the argument.

There goes your Millenialism again.

More ad hominens in lieu of reasoned debate.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

And that is a type of ad hominem fallacy trying to accuse me of totalitarianism without actually proving it. There is nothing totalitarian about voters deciding to remove Confederate iconography or in voting for representatives that promise to.

So every time a group of people afflicted with Millenialism and with some rope decide to yank down a statue
because they are offended by it that's been voted on or some politician says good idea?

That's utter bullshit and I know for a fact that is a lie, though since you seem to really believe it
it's more likely a mental compulsion than actual untruth.

 

[Curried Goats]

So every time a group of people afflicted with Millenialism and with some rope decide to yank down a statue
because they are offended by it that's been voted on or some politician says good idea?

Nope. That would be vandalism.

That's utter bullshit and I know for a fact that is a lie, though since you seem to really believe it
it's more likely a mental compulsion than actual untruth.

Lol. You don't seem to understand how debate works. You have to wait until I respond or you just look like you're lashing out because you're losing the debate.

 

[alang1216]

Not really but just like the Native Americans who made slavery a ubiquitous feature of tribal life
in North America, it was blacks in Africa who made a thriving trade in selling of their fellow natives to slave traders (a practice that persists to this day in Africa) possible and profitable.

Try cracking a book and educating yourself someday.

My point was that on the subject of slavery, Native Americans were no worse than Europeans. I also believe, but can't prove, that Native Americans were more humane and tolerant of members of their own tribe than were Westerners.

 

[alang1216]

You hear what you want to hear.

Thanks. And you hear what you want to hear.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

No we didn't, and yet millions of children still learn that Nazi's are pieces of shit. Imagine that.

Are you claiming children don't realize slavery was a terrible evil somehow and we have to
go around like woke vigilantes sand blasting names off of schools or pulling down
statues to make everything right? Just bizarre and absurd.

This is the same sick compulsion that causes people to become victims of their own
outdated social posts from a decade ago that have been dug up by social shame addicts.
It's millenialsim, once again, i.e. the need to signal virtue and show how perfect you are
by taking down some unaware person or historical figure.

What a way to spend one's life!

And that is a type of ad hominem fallacy trying to accuse me of totalitarianism without actually proving it. There is nothing totalitarian about voters deciding to remove Confederate iconography or in voting for representatives that promise to.

Res ipsa loquitur....the thing proves itself.

Your actions are totalitarian in nature.
Just like in the Soviet Union when statues, busts, paintings, references to Joe Stalin were
suddenly all removed from public view. Totalitarianism pure and simple.
Like history itself had been wiped clean by party officials. That's okay though.
How could you possibly know about your predilection? And how fascist it is at it's root.

Well your personal anecdote is obviously indicative of larger social truths because that's exactly how those work.

Is it? Can you site a source for that or have you given up because I'm your intellectual superior and all you have left are these none arguments?

A well known social phenomenon needs no citation from me. We all understand our zeitgeist.

Unlike your absurd claims
of "mental superiority". If you actually were mentally superior you would never be so gauche
as to brag about it. Res ipsa loquitur again. The thing proves itself.
You obviously feel insecure and I can't blame you. You should.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

My point was that on the subject of slavery, Native Americans were no worse than Europeans. I also believe, but can't prove, that Native Americans were more humane and tolerant of members of their own tribe than were Westerners.

I disagree because ALL Europeans were not enslaving others though the custom of making the losers
in tribal war into slaves was a ubiquitous feature of Native American life.

Not every tribe did it, Southwestern and Northwestern tribes were not likely to go to war
but for a majority of large tribes, wars of acquisition let to slavery.

Your other suspicion can't be confirmed and there is no way of comparing the English monarchy
and it's subjects, for instance. And how the Navajos behaved towards it's own.
I do know members of other tribes were not treated particularly well.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Nope. That would be vandalism.

And no statues have ever been simply pulled over? Really?

Lol. You don't seem to understand how debate works. You have to wait until I respond or you just look like you're lashing out because you're losing the debate.

Your points don't seem to me to be worth waiting for.

 

[Curried Goats]

Are you claiming children don't realize slavery was a terrible evil somehow and we have to
go around like woke vigilantes sand blasting names off of schools or pulling down
statues to make everything right? Just bizarre and absurd.

Red herring. I infact don't think children need statues of slavers dotting the landscape to learn that slavery was bad and I think the statues and names should be removed through Democratic measures, not vandalism.

This is the same sick compulsion that causes people to become victims of their own
outdated social posts from a decade ago that have been dug up by social shame addicts.

What sick compulsion? The one were you accuse me of supporting vandalism without evidence?

It's millenialsim, once again, i.e. the need to signal virtue and show how perfect you are
by taking down some unaware person or historical figure.

Another ad hominem. Actually the same one. Just on repeat.

Your actions are totalitarian in nature.

Which ones superficially? Prove it.

Just like in the Soviet Union when statues, busts, paintings, references to Joe Stalin were
suddenly all removed from public view. Totalitarianism pure and simple.

Lol. Not quite a convincing argument.

Like history itself had been wiped clean by party officials. That's okay though.
How could you possibly know about your predilection? And how fascist it is at it's root.

We can add fascist to the list of names you call me when you run out room for reason.

A well known social phenomenon needs no citation from me. We all understand our zeitgeist.

No proof as I suspected.

Unlike your absurd claims
of "mental superiority". If you actually were mentally superior you would never be so gauche
as to brag about it. Res ipsa loquitur again. The thing proves itself.

In this case I have proven it. All your arguments fall flat and rely on falsehoods and personal attacks.

You obviously feel insecure and I can't blame you. You should.

I don't. Not in the slightest. Lol.

 

[Curried Goats]

And no statues have ever been simply pulled over? Really?

Who said no statues have ever been subject to vandalism? Can you provide evidence I've claimed this?

Your points don't seem to me to be worth waiting for.

Your responses are definitely worth laughing at however. Lol.

 

[alang1216]

I disagree because ALL Europeans were not enslaving others though the custom of making the losers
in tribal war into slaves was a ubiquitous feature of Native American life.

I'm not sure where this info comes from since you yourself wrote that not all tribes practiced it. Native American slavery seems much more complex and nuanced than the European chattel model.

 

[percysunshine]

The British caused all this stuff....which is why there was a revolution.

 

[Porthos]

4. One of the sub-text lies is that the stone-age Indians who greeted the European were Rousseau’s ‘noble savages.’
They were certainly savages.
These were basically the sort one thinks of as cave-dwellers, some three millennia behind the colonists in every way imaginable.

What is rarely provided is the nature of those Indians. They were hardly ‘Noble Savages,’ nature-loving and welcoming to the Europeans.



5. “The Holocene extinction, otherwise referred to as the sixth mass extinction or Anthropocene extinction, is an ongoing extinction event of species during the present Holocene epoch …as a result of human activity.[3][4][5] The included extinctions span numerous families of bacteria, fungi, plants[6][7][8] and animals, including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates. With widespread degradation of highly biodiverse habitats …

The Holocene extinction includes the disappearance of large land animals known as megafauna, starting at the end of the last glacial period. … – with few exceptions – megafauna of the mainland was largely unaffected until a few hundred years ago.[16]

The most popular theory is that human overhunting of species added to existing stress conditions as the extinction coincides with human emergence. Although there is debate regarding how much human predation affected their decline, certain population declines have been directly correlated with human activity,…. After early humans migrated to the Americas about 13,000 BP, their hunting and other associated ecological impacts led to the extinction of many megafaunal species there.”


That would be those ‘noble savages,’ who drove herds of buffalo over cliffs, hunted other animals to extinction, and burned forests to flush out their prey.



6. “The Native Americans were the first genocidal warlords on the continent. They stole the continent from the Holocene Megafauna and slaughtered them into extinction.

For centuries Native Americans had the land and did virtually nothing with it; that is, in terms of emancipating themselves from an animistic biological and cyclical lifestyle. The notion of progress lay unknown to them. They existed outside the historical process.”

Must be a fake picture

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I'm not sure where this info comes from since you yourself wrote that not all tribes practiced it.

That's my impression.

Native American slavery seems much more complex and nuanced than the European chattel model.

If you are in a tribal war, not all that uncommon, and you lose, and aren't murdered, you become a slave. Period!
Is that "complex and nuanced" to you? Call a shrink.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Who said no statues have ever been subject to vandalism? Can you provide evidence I've claimed this?

I actually didn't say that! Maybe you should read more carefully.

Your responses are definitely worth laughing at however. Lol.

That means a lot coming from you.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Red herring. I infact don't think children need statues of slavers dotting the landscape to learn that slavery was bad and I think the statues and names should be removed through Democratic measures, not vandalism.

Well in places like Portland and Seattle there have been lots of statues simply pulled down.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

What sick compulsion? The one were you accuse me of supporting vandalism without evidence?

The sick compulsion of millenialmania. In all it's flavors.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Lol. Not quite a convincing argument.

LOL indeed. You are the one who needs to go around removing statues of Stalin (euphemistically speaking, of course.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

We can add fascist to the list of names you call me when you run out room for reason.

It fits nicely, doesn't it?