Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[ding]

The quantum field is not the early universe nor is it bound by Newtonian physics.

You are discussing something that might exist outside of space and time. I am discussing something that does exist inside of space and time.

I have provided a link which agrees with my position.

You have provided nothing to support your position. Stop making shit up.

 

[Blues Man]

You are discussing something that might exist outside of space and time. I am discussing something that does exist inside of space and time.

I have provided a link which agrees with my position.

You have provided nothing to support your position. Stop making shit up.

Funny you have been telling me that something has to exist outside space and time now you tell me it doesn't.

 

[ding]

You know god exists how?

The universe spawned from the quantum vacuum via a fluctuation

we have no reason to believe that quantum vacuum is still there outside of this universe.

You like to conflate the known universe with the unknown universe/

Do you have a link describing how the quantum state is not chaotic or that it is unchanged? Because those are the claims you are making. You don't know dick about the quantum field.

 

[Blues Man]

Do you have a link describing how the quantum state is not chaotic or that it is unchanged? Because those are the claims you are making. You don't know dick about the quantum field.

Do you have a link that says god exists and must be eternal?

The thing is no one know shit about what was around before the universe came to be.

and no one can prove anything about it because it is UNKNOWN.

 

[ding]

Funny you have been telling me that something has to exist outside space and time now you tell me it doesn't.

Not exactly. I said that we know the universe was created according to the laws of nature. And through deduction we can deduce those laws had to be in place before space and time itself. And I provided links to a renowned cosmologists who stated exactly that.

You on the other hand have stated the quantum field is not chaotic and hasn't changed. You have provided no evidence to support that position.

So not exactly the same thing now is it?

 

[ding]

Do you have a link that says god exists and must be eternal?

The thing is no one know shit about what was around before the universe came to be.

and no one can prove anything about it because it is UNKNOWN.

We aren't discussing God. We are discussing how order came from chaos. A position you apparently disagree with despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

So now you are arguing no one can know anything about what happened before the universe began even as you tell us that before the universe began the quantum field was not chaotic and is unchanged now. Pick a lane.

 

[Blues Man]

Not exactly. I said that we know the universe was created according to the laws of nature. And through deduction we can deduce those laws had to be in place before space and time itself. And I provided links to a renowned cosmologists who stated exactly that.

You on the other hand have stated the quantum field is not chaotic and hasn't changed. You have provided no evidence to support that position.

So not exactly the same thing now is it?

No they didn't those laws came into existence with the known universe and you are trying to apply those laws to the unknown universe.

and we've done this too many times to rehash and we both know this conversation is going nowhere.

 

[ding]

No they didn't those laws came into existence with the known universe and you are trying to apply those laws to the unknown universe.

and we've done this too many times to rehash and we both know this conversation is going nowhere.

The universe was created according to the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. So, no. Those laws did not come into existence when space and time were created. Space and time were created according to the laws that existed before space and time. I have a link supporting this. Do you have a link supporting your belief?

 

[Blues Man]

We aren't discussing God. We are discussing how order came from chaos. A position you apparently disagree with despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

So now you are arguing no one can know anything about what happened before the universe began even as you tell us that before the universe began the quantum field was not chaotic and is unchanged now. Pick a lane.

and you say its a god

and I don;t have to pick anything.

Speculating on what existed before the known universe and what exactly happened is just that speculation.

we know the quantum field exists we know that quantum particles can defy space and time we know that a thing can exist in infinite states until we collapse a wave function.

it makes sense that these things that don't conform to our "Laws" of physics and that we cannot reconcile with Newtonian physics may have existed before our universe existed and makes a fuck of a lot more sense than a god.

 

[ding]

and you say its a god

and I don;t have to pick anything.

Speculating on what existed before the known universe and what exactly happened is just that speculation.

we know the quantum field exists we know that quantum particles can defy space and time we know that a thing can exist in infinite states until we collapse a wave function.

it makes sense that these things that don't conform to our "Laws" of physics and that we cannot reconcile with Newtonian physics may have existed before our universe existed and makes a fuck of a lot more sense than a god.

 

[Blues Man]

The universe was created according to the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. So, no. Those laws did not come into existence when space and time were created. Space and time were created according to the laws that existed before space and time. I have a link supporting this. Do you have a link supporting your belief?

how many times are you going to post that.

WEW DO NOT FUCKING KNOW WHAT WAS AROUND BEFORE THIS UNIVERSE CAME TO BE.

 

[ding]

how many times are you going to post that.

WEW DO NOT FUCKING KNOW WHAT WAS AROUND BEFORE THIS UNIVERSE CAME TO BE.

 

[Blues Man]

You cannot link to a source of knowledge that does not exist

 

[ding]

how many times are you going to post that.

WEW DO NOT FUCKING KNOW WHAT WAS AROUND BEFORE THIS UNIVERSE CAME TO BE.

Even though you just argued that you know the quantum field existed and was not chaotic and has not changed. Pick a lane.

 

[ding]

You cannot link to a source of knowledge that does not exist

So then you made up everything you said about the quantum field?

 

[Blues Man]

Even though you just argued that you know the quantum field existed and was not chaotic and has not changed. Pick a lane.

I said it was speculation

"Nothing" doesn't exist. Instead, there is "quantum foam"

Quantum physics shows that there is no such thing as "nothing." Even in a vacuum, particles can blink into and out of existence.

bigthink.com

If nothing doesn't exist then the universe didn't come from nothing.

 

[Woodznutz]

There are MANY religions, and most are thousands of years old when few were able to read, and even fewer understood scientific knowledge about the universe that is evident today.
Which religion is best? Why would you choose a religion when its leaders don't understand natural, scientific reality?

Empathy and a golden rule is all one needs to be "ethical".

The religion of Christianity is just that, following the golden rule.

James 1:27
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit* the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

This is actually the personal 'ministry' of everyone in the church. The stumbling block in this is that you must love (agapeo) yourself before you can love another "as you love (agapeo) yourself".

This is one reason that Luther (and others) consider James "the epistle of straw", as they want to attach all sorts of baggage to religion then proceed to judge you on it.

* Literally, to spy on them, to determine their needs.

 

[ding]

I said it was speculation

"Nothing" doesn't exist. Instead, there is "quantum foam"

Quantum physics shows that there is no such thing as "nothing." Even in a vacuum, particles can blink into and out of existence.

bigthink.com

If nothing doesn't exist then the universe didn't come from nothing.

And has nothing whatsoever to do with your silly claim that the quantum field isn't chaotic. Quantum mechanics is based upon uncertainty. You can't get any more chaotic than uncertainty.

But I love how you argue no one can know what happened before space and time were created from matter that never existed before unless that person is you.

 

[BreezeWood]

No one is all good or all bad. That's what makes them complex.

bing - still denies their role in life ... for admission to the everlasting as a free spirit past judgement for what they accomplished.

two strikes, and the 3rd, physiological cessation - and the rest is history.

 

[Blues Man]

And has nothing whatsoever to do with your silly claim that the quantum field isn't chaotic. Quantum mechanics is based upon uncertainty. You can't get any more chaotic than uncertainty.

But I love how you argue no one can know what happened before space and time were created from matter that never existed before unless that person is you.

I said YOU call it chaos

It is what it is as its nature demands.

And you have been telling me you know what happened before the universe came into being for quite a long time now.

I have always said we don't really know and it's all speculation and what's more it's meaningless speculation