Refugees and the right to return

[Shusha]

The Treaty of Lausanne ceded all of that land to Palestine.

To the Jewish National Home

 

[Shusha]

Did they kick out the existing population?

The existing population was uprooted due to the conflict. The war in 1948, which created refugees on both sides, was a joint Arab effort to prevent Israeli (Jewish) sovereignty on any part of the territory.

Had that conflict not occurred, there would be no Arab Palestinian diaspora. So, it is disingenuous to lay responsibility for it entirely on Israel. The Arab Palestinians, as well as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq all played a part in it.

Had that conflict not occurred, there would be no Arab Palestinian diaspora.

The Zionists preplanned that conflict. About 300,00 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the 1948 war.

Link?

Approximately 250,000-300,000 Palestinians had fled or been expelled prior to the Israeli Declaration of Independence in May 1948; a fact which was named as a causus belli for the entry of the Arab League into the country, sparking the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

Right. So it was the conflict and not the purchase of land by Jews.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Did they kick out the existing population?

The existing population was uprooted due to the conflict. The war in 1948, which created refugees on both sides, was a joint Arab effort to prevent Israeli (Jewish) sovereignty on any part of the territory.

Had that conflict not occurred, there would be no Arab Palestinian diaspora. So, it is disingenuous to lay responsibility for it entirely on Israel. The Arab Palestinians, as well as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq all played a part in it.

Had that conflict not occurred, there would be no Arab Palestinian diaspora.

The Zionists preplanned that conflict. About 300,00 Palestinians became refugees before the start of the 1948 war.

Link?

Approximately 250,000-300,000 Palestinians had fled or been expelled prior to the Israeli Declaration of Independence in May 1948; a fact which was named as a causus belli for the entry of the Arab League into the country, sparking the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

Right. So it was the conflict and not the purchase of land by Jews.

Indeed, it was the Zionist military attack on Palestinian civilians.

 

[Coyote]

And ve

I would contradict that the Jewish people have their origin in modern Israel.

Don't be silly. Where did the Jewish people originate, then?

I know a Jewish family who live in California where the children and grandchildren were born. This new generation originated in California. Before that their ancestors were Austrian not Middle Eastern.

And before they were Austrian?

 

[Coyote]

Is it dependent on records of citizenship?

That is a tough call. How can you claim the right to return if there is no evidence that you have any ancestors from that place.

What do you consider "evidence"?

Well, there are Ottoman records, British records, UN records, etc. for the Palestinians. The only thing the Jews have is a shared religion with some people who lived there thousands of years ago.

Do Jews have the right to live in Palestine? Sure.

Do they have the right to invade en mass, kick out the existing population, and pig the place for themselves? No.

Do the Egyptians, Syrians etc have the right to "invade en mass"? Because if you are going to accuse the Jews of that you can't ignore the other side.

Did they kick out the existing population?

Did anyone get kicked out as a result of immigration?

 

[Coyote]

The flaw in your argument is that the founding of the nation state of Israel was done by dispossessing and displacing the indigenous Arabs. Palestine was not empty sand dunes and desert.

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds. From absentee Arab landlords who gave up title to that land in exchange for cash.. Stanford University has MANY of those original deeds in their archives. I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

Is BUYING real estate -- dispossessing and displacing? Plenty of remaining historical transactions about the land deals..

There is a bit of controversy there in that Israel's absentee land owner laws made it much more difficult for Arab landowners to reclaim their property and allowed the state to confiscate it or buy it dirt cheap.

 

[Coyote]

The flaw in your argument is that the founding of the nation state of Israel was done by dispossessing and displacing the indigenous Arabs. Palestine was not empty sand dunes and desert.

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds. From absentee Arab landlords who gave up title to that land in exchange for cash.. Stanford University has MANY of those original deeds in their archives. I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

Is BUYING real estate -- dispossessing and displacing? Plenty of remaining historical transactions about the land deals..

There is a bit of controversy there in that Israel's absentee land owner laws made it much more difficult for Arab landowners to reclaim their property and allowed the state to confiscate it or buy it dirt cheap.

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds....

Cough, cough... bullshit.

...I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

LMAO, sure, because you say so.

BOTTOM LINE: YOUR ZIONIST DEATH CULT REFUSING THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THE LAND AND THE HOMES THAT WERE STOLEN FROM THEM IS PATHETIC.

Ok then...do the

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds....

Cough, cough... bullshit.

...I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

LMAO, sure, because you say so.

BOTTOM LINE: YOUR ZIONIST DEATH CULT REFUSING THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THE LAND AND THE HOMES THAT WERE STOLEN FROM THEM IS PATHETIC.

Do the Jewish people have the same right of return or does it only apply to non Jews?

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is a tough call. How can you claim the right to return if there is no evidence that you have any ancestors from that place.

What do you consider "evidence"?

Well, there are Ottoman records, British records, UN records, etc. for the Palestinians. The only thing the Jews have is a shared religion with some people who lived there thousands of years ago.

Do Jews have the right to live in Palestine? Sure.

Do they have the right to invade en mass, kick out the existing population, and pig the place for themselves? No.

Do the Egyptians, Syrians etc have the right to "invade en mass"? Because if you are going to accuse the Jews of that you can't ignore the other side.

Did they kick out the existing population?

Did anyone get kicked out as a result of immigration?

Not much initially...but...The Zionists and Britain colluded to colonize Palestine. Britain's military ran cover for the Zionists while they created "a state within a state" in Palestine. (Britain's words not mine.) When Britain planned to leave Palestine the Zionists rolled their military across Palestine attacking the civilians and driving them out of their homes. This plan was hindered by the Arab armies who entered Palestine in May of 1948. By this time about 300,000 Palestinian had already become refugees.

BTW, define immigrant.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Right of Return Conference Day 2: Joseph Massad Keynote Address

 

[ProudVeteran76]

Right of Return Conference Day 2: Joseph Massad Keynote Address

Yawn.... Not going to happen

 

[Shusha]

Not much initially...but...The Zionists and Britain colluded to colonize Palestine. Britain's military ran cover for the Zionists while they created "a state within a state" in Palestine. (Britain's words not mine.) When Britain planned to leave Palestine the Zionists rolled their military across Palestine attacking the civilians and driving them out of their homes. This plan was hindered by the Arab armies who entered Palestine in May of 1948. By this time about 300,000 Palestinian had already become refugees.
.

Really? You are trying to convince us that there was no conflict until May of 1948 and the Arabs were just sitting around peacefully drinking tea until the mean old evil Jooooos started randomly attacking them?

Immigration of Jews (return) did not cause an Arab diaspora. Conflict caused it. The same conflict which is still on-going. Arabs refuse to consider Jewish sovereignty. The Jewish people refuse to consider the destruction of their nation. (Again).

At this point Arabs refuse to even consider having Jews live next to them. Hence the whole silly "settlements" argument.

The intent of the Arab return is only another method to try to destroy Israel cloaked in fake humanitarianism. We can tell it's fake because no one wants to talk about actual humanitarian actions like getting the Arab Palestinians out of refugee camps and concrete and barbed wire prisons.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not much initially...but...The Zionists and Britain colluded to colonize Palestine. Britain's military ran cover for the Zionists while they created "a state within a state" in Palestine. (Britain's words not mine.) When Britain planned to leave Palestine the Zionists rolled their military across Palestine attacking the civilians and driving them out of their homes. This plan was hindered by the Arab armies who entered Palestine in May of 1948. By this time about 300,000 Palestinian had already become refugees.
.

Really? You are trying to convince us that there was no conflict until May of 1948 and the Arabs were just sitting around peacefully drinking tea until the mean old evil Jooooos started randomly attacking them?

Immigration of Jews (return) did not cause an Arab diaspora. Conflict caused it. The same conflict which is still on-going. Arabs refuse to consider Jewish sovereignty. The Jewish people refuse to consider the destruction of their nation. (Again).

At this point Arabs refuse to even consider having Jews live next to them. Hence the whole silly "settlements" argument.

The intent of the Arab return is only another method to try to destroy Israel cloaked in fake humanitarianism. We can tell it's fake because no one wants to talk about actual humanitarian actions like getting the Arab Palestinians out of refugee camps and concrete and barbed wire prisons.

Arabs refuse to consider Jewish sovereignty.

Arabs refuse to consider Jewish sovereignty inside Palestine.

You have to complete the sentence to understand the problem.

 

[Eloy]

Sephardim who had been living in South America until lately with citizenship of countries there are able have their right of return respected by the Spanish government since their forebears were expelled from their homeland in Andalucía.

Right. So why wouldn't they also have the right to return to their original homeland in Israel, Judea and Samaria?

The original homeland of the Sephardi is Spain. Spain is where they get their name from and their culture as well as identity and self determination is part of Jewish Spain.

 

[Eloy]

It is understandable that those who were left after the destruction of the European Jews in Nazi occupied land during the Second World War would feel insecure. This insecurity motivated some Jews, the Zionists, to quit Europe and establish a new homeland where they could feel they belonged simply because they were Jews. This is not the same thing as the establishment of a nation state and the British who believed they owned Palestine in the last century because they had a defunct League of Nations Mandate, did not mean a homeland would be created at the expense of the indigenous Arab Palestinians.

And yet - it ended up recognizing a portion of Mandate to be under control of a predominantly Jewish state. The Palis HAD the entire West Bank under Jordanian Mandate for a couple decades.

Spoiler: And what did they DO with that opportunity?

They attacked the Capitol of Jordan , got their asses kicked out, and later on the King RENOUNCED all claim to the West Bank --- because he REFUSED to deal with them ever again

The British have done a lot of harm in our world. They left behind a divided Ireland on sectarian grounds in 1922 which causes trouble to this day. They left behind a partitioned India on religious grounds in 1947 and Pakistan is now India's worst enemy. They divided tribes in Africa so that, e.g. the Babakusu are partly in N/W Kenya and E Uganda, also leaving behind in 1961 a system of apartheid in racist South Africa which has only recently been ended due to world opprobrium. Leaving behind a problem of mass immigration of European Jews into Palestine which became so unmanageable that they left there with their tail between their legs and opening the way for a Jewish state in 1948. They are currently holding on to islands of Argentina and even part of the Spanish mainland. They have a lot to answer for.

 

[Eloy]

The flaw in your argument is that the founding of the nation state of Israel was done by dispossessing and displacing the indigenous Arabs. Palestine was not empty sand dunes and desert.

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds. From absentee Arab landlords who gave up title to that land in exchange for cash.. Stanford University has MANY of those original deeds in their archives. I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

Is BUYING real estate -- dispossessing and displacing? Plenty of remaining historical transactions about the land deals..

It is bizarre bordering on the ridiculous to believe that absentee landlords have a right to sell the sovereignty of land to a foreign state. Absentee landlords or current land speculators cannot sell sovereignty which belongs to the inhabitants of a land.

 

[Eloy]

The new secret alliance between Israel, Egypt, UAE, Jordan and the future Kurdistan, means the Palestine question is MOOT! The PLO and Hezbollah can either work peacefully as Minority parties, and end violent resistance, or live under Police rule. The time for a two state solution has passed!
The only champions Palestinian Arabs have are western progressives, and they are going down quickly. The world knows it, but loony left dreams on.

Even the Israelis avoid attempting to offer a solution by calling names of those whom they seek to influence.

 

[Eloy]

And ve

I would contradict that the Jewish people have their origin in modern Israel.

Don't be silly. Where did the Jewish people originate, then?

I know a Jewish family who live in California where the children and grandchildren were born. This new generation originated in California. Before that their ancestors were Austrian not Middle Eastern.

And before they were Austrian?

The Garden of Eden I suppose. Who knows?

 

[Eloy]

The flaw in your argument is that the founding of the nation state of Israel was done by dispossessing and displacing the indigenous Arabs. Palestine was not empty sand dunes and desert.

The major urban areas of Israel were acquired by VALID land deeds. From absentee Arab landlords who gave up title to that land in exchange for cash.. Stanford University has MANY of those original deeds in their archives. I posted them here numerous times. But the collection got moved back to the basement and the links are gone.

Is BUYING real estate -- dispossessing and displacing? Plenty of remaining historical transactions about the land deals..

There is a bit of controversy there in that Israel's absentee land owner laws made it much more difficult for Arab landowners to reclaim their property and allowed the state to confiscate it or buy it dirt cheap.

Asking for land documents before Palestinian refugees can return to their land would be like Swiss banks requiring death certificates from Auschwitz-Birkenau before valuables can be withdrawn by Jewish next-of-kin. It is obscene.

 

[Shusha]

Arabs refuse to consider Jewish sovereignty inside Palestine.

But you do realize this makes it an unsolvable problem, yes? And it is the Arab ideology which makes it an unsolvable problem. And that the people who are suffering while the problem remains unsolved are the Arab Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

The original homeland of the Sephardi is Spain. Spain is where they get their name from and their culture as well as identity and self determination is part of Jewish Spain.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you don't believe the Jewish people came originally from Israel and Judah? (You do realize that last is where they got their name and their culture from, right?). You are seriously trying to tell me you believe that the Jewish people originated in Spain?

Unbelievable.