CDZ redistribution of wealth

[danielpalos]

The point and that alternative is, that Policies Public, should promote the general welfare; and not merely serve as relatively secure investment vehicles for the wealthiest, even if at the expense of Individual Liberty for the least wealthy.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson

If only, we could convince the right to be more cognitively sonant to their alleged Cause of limited government.

I would agree with both of those statements above. I want less regulations, both so that we promote the general welfare and not the mega corporations, and because regulations inherently limit freedom, and I'd rather have to deal with the inconvenience of too much freedom, rather than too little.

The problem is, the left is really really good as *SAYING* they support these goals, but in practice, they do everything they can to do the very opposite. They shackle the public with as much overbearing regulation to control every aspect of our lives, and at the same time promote the wealthy, at the expensive of the general population.

It isn't the fault of the left that innovation only comes from the left; the right seems to prefer to "bah humbug" every Thing and try to repeal it without offering any Thing more innovative.

 

[dblack]

Is redistribution of wealth, aided by social institutions, from the top down wrong, but from up from the lower strata to the top OK?

Because socialism always fails which is the top down model.

-Geaux

no it doesn't; it is capitalism that always fails to deliver as promised without a profit motive; socialism only needs a social motive.

Yeah... which is why it fails. You don't see people swimming to Cuba from here, but rather the reverse. Argentina is not a utopia, and Venezuela has lost over a million people who fled the "social motive" you talk about.

Which socialist based country would you suggest is better than capitalism?

It may be a matter of balance. Our Founding Fathers were wise enough to limit our Socialism, to paying the debts, and providing for the common defense and general welfare of the United States, not any Thing and every Thing, as the right would have us believe.

They also limited the charters of corporations, including their profit margins, in granting them limited liability privileges. The 'corporate personhood' scam was a post-Civil War laissez faire scam.

The corporate charter is the opposite of laissez faire.

 

[ABikerSailor]

For every tax dollar that is returned to the poor and middle class? It generates about 1.63 for the economy.

For every tax dollar that is returned to the wealthy? It only generates 1.03 for the economy.

Why? Poor and middle class people spend money for basic living expenses, whereas the wealthy put it away in a bank.

 

[elektra]

For every tax dollar that is returned to the poor and middle class? It generates about 1.63 for the economy.

For every tax dollar that is returned to the wealthy? It only generates 1.03 for the economy.

Why? Poor and middle class people spend money for basic living expenses, whereas the wealthy put it away in a bank.

Nope, you got that wrong, the government takes a dollar, gives back a penny, and you claim that creates a $1.67.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I guess you missed the point about "tax dollar being returned". If I meant penny, I would have said penny.

 

[elektra]

I guess you missed the point about "tax dollar being returned". If I meant penny, I would have said penny.

The government returns pennies on the dollar, is that too difficult to understand.

 

[danielpalos]

For every tax dollar that is returned to the poor and middle class? It generates about 1.63 for the economy.

For every tax dollar that is returned to the wealthy? It only generates 1.03 for the economy.

Why? Poor and middle class people spend money for basic living expenses, whereas the wealthy put it away in a bank.

Nope, you got that wrong, the government takes a dollar, gives back a penny, and you claim that creates a $1.67.

He is referring to a positive multiplier effect.

 

[Andylusion]

The point and that alternative is, that Policies Public, should promote the general welfare; and not merely serve as relatively secure investment vehicles for the wealthiest, even if at the expense of Individual Liberty for the least wealthy.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson

If only, we could convince the right to be more cognitively sonant to their alleged Cause of limited government.

I would agree with both of those statements above. I want less regulations, both so that we promote the general welfare and not the mega corporations, and because regulations inherently limit freedom, and I'd rather have to deal with the inconvenience of too much freedom, rather than too little.

The problem is, the left is really really good as *SAYING* they support these goals, but in practice, they do everything they can to do the very opposite. They shackle the public with as much overbearing regulation to control every aspect of our lives, and at the same time promote the wealthy, at the expensive of the general population.

It isn't the fault of the left that innovation only comes from the left; the right seems to prefer to "bah humbug" every Thing and try to repeal it without offering any Thing more innovative.

Yeah.... because you can't force freedom. This is Atlas Shrugged all over again. Let's put someone in charge and force people to be free, by force.

It's illogical. The right-wing, is right about this. You can't force things to work. You have to release control, and allow the people the freedom to make their own choices.

Your system doesn't work. We've seen that over and over and over again. Out the entire economy, from one end to the other, which areas are the absolute most controlled and most regulated, and most legislated? Top 2. Which are they?

Banking and Health care. There are more regulations on those two areas, than any other aspect anywhere in our economy. This explains why we have so many office supply shortages. Remember all the paper riots? Those black market pens and pencils and dry erase boards? The crash of the highlighter and scotch tape market? You can't either? Neither can I. Why? Because we have an abundance of office supplies.

Where are the problems in our economy? Banks and Health care.

Your way doesn't work. We've tried it over and over and over and over, and we keep having problems constantly.

You know who doesn't have a banking problem? Canada. Canada has one of the least regulated banking systems in the world. They didn't have a banking crash during the great depression, nor the 2008 recession.

You who doesn't have a problem in health care? The free-market medical-tourism pay-for-service hospitals operating in India, Singapore and Costa Rica. The private pay-for-service capitalist hospitals in those countries are almost completely unregulated, which is why they are cheap, and attracting customers across the world.

Again, we've done it your way. What we have, is the result of your left-wing policies being played out. All you can do, is blame us for not coming up with a fix for your bad policies? There is no fix. The fix, is to undo the bad policy, and let the system fix itself.

When you ingest poison in your tea every day, and go to your doctor and say "Fix me, the poison is killing me!" and then get mad when he has no fix, you only make yourself look bad. The doctor has no solution to you choosing to poison yourself. The solution is undo the policy of poisoning yourself. Stop eating poison. That's your "fix".

You keep demanding Republicans fix your socialist poisoning of healthcare and banking, and then blame us, like it's our fault your system doesn't work? No. Sorry. You own it.

The solution is to deregulate, reduce the controls, and let the system work.

 

[Andylusion]

I guess you missed the point about "tax dollar being returned". If I meant penny, I would have said penny.

No, we know what you said. The problem is... it's not true.

It doesn't even make logical sense. Every single dollar taken out of the economy, results in less than a dollar being put into the economy.

When the government takes a dollar, you don't get a dollar back, because the government has to pay all it's union employees, and those poor impoverished millionaire politicians that you people elected to take our money.

Who the government gives the money too, is completely irrelevant to the fact, that the money is largely consumed. The amount the government puts back into the economy, is a fraction of what it has taken, no matter what way it give the few pennies back, or who gets them.

And many times, the government gives money out to people, who produce NOTHING. So, no, I'm sorry, you are wrong.... there is no "$1.64" return on taxes stolen from the public. That's a fail.

 

[HenryBHough]

When wealth is routinely redistributed it does not take long until there is no wealth to redistribute. But that's no time to quit!

 

[there4eyeM]

Obviously, the extremely absurd present concentration of wealth in a tiny minority is unhealthy. That minority is dependent on the majority for the nation's infrastructure, defense and the markets the majority compose. With the refusal of the minority to use their intelligence and spread out the benefits, what choices remain?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The simple and only answer to the Op is

Forcibly taking from some to give to others is wrong.

Voluntary transactions between adults is not wrong even if one person profits from it

 

[Geaux4it]

Obviously, the extremely absurd present concentration of wealth in a tiny minority is unhealthy. That minority is dependent on the majority for the nation's infrastructure, defense and the markets the majority compose. With the refusal of the minority to use their intelligence and spread out the benefits, what choices remain?

The choice to buckle down while allplying risk- in hopes of being in the minority not so concerned about the majority.

Where do I sign up

-Geaux

 

[Skull Pilot]

For every tax dollar that is returned to the poor and middle class? It generates about 1.63 for the economy.

For every tax dollar that is returned to the wealthy? It only generates 1.03 for the economy.

Why? Poor and middle class people spend money for basic living expenses, whereas the wealthy put it away in a bank.

There is no government money multiplier. And the wealthy don't keep their money in a bank to earn less than one percent interest they put it in the market so as to maximize their returns.

A dollar is a dollar.

And in fact tax money returns less to the economy because not 100% of any tax dollar makes it back to the public.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Is redistribution of wealth, aided by social institutions, from the top down wrong, but from up from the lower strata to the top OK?

Isn't all taxation just legalized theft and 'redistribution of wealth?'

While some taxation's justifiable (gotta be able to build and support infrastructure and the like) too much becomes theft and unjustified.

 

[danielpalos]

The point and that alternative is, that Policies Public, should promote the general welfare; and not merely serve as relatively secure investment vehicles for the wealthiest, even if at the expense of Individual Liberty for the least wealthy.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson

If only, we could convince the right to be more cognitively sonant to their alleged Cause of limited government.

I would agree with both of those statements above. I want less regulations, both so that we promote the general welfare and not the mega corporations, and because regulations inherently limit freedom, and I'd rather have to deal with the inconvenience of too much freedom, rather than too little.

The problem is, the left is really really good as *SAYING* they support these goals, but in practice, they do everything they can to do the very opposite. They shackle the public with as much overbearing regulation to control every aspect of our lives, and at the same time promote the wealthy, at the expensive of the general population.

It isn't the fault of the left that innovation only comes from the left; the right seems to prefer to "bah humbug" every Thing and try to repeal it without offering any Thing more innovative.

Yeah.... because you can't force freedom. This is Atlas Shrugged all over again. Let's put someone in charge and force people to be free, by force.

It's illogical. The right-wing, is right about this. You can't force things to work. You have to release control, and allow the people the freedom to make their own choices.

Your system doesn't work. We've seen that over and over and over again. Out the entire economy, from one end to the other, which areas are the absolute most controlled and most regulated, and most legislated? Top 2. Which are they?

Banking and Health care. There are more regulations on those two areas, than any other aspect anywhere in our economy. This explains why we have so many office supply shortages. Remember all the paper riots? Those black market pens and pencils and dry erase boards? The crash of the highlighter and scotch tape market? You can't either? Neither can I. Why? Because we have an abundance of office supplies.

Where are the problems in our economy? Banks and Health care.

Your way doesn't work. We've tried it over and over and over and over, and we keep having problems constantly.

You know who doesn't have a banking problem? Canada. Canada has one of the least regulated banking systems in the world. They didn't have a banking crash during the great depression, nor the 2008 recession.

You who doesn't have a problem in health care? The free-market medical-tourism pay-for-service hospitals operating in India, Singapore and Costa Rica. The private pay-for-service capitalist hospitals in those countries are almost completely unregulated, which is why they are cheap, and attracting customers across the world.

Again, we've done it your way. What we have, is the result of your left-wing policies being played out. All you can do, is blame us for not coming up with a fix for your bad policies? There is no fix. The fix, is to undo the bad policy, and let the system fix itself.

When you ingest poison in your tea every day, and go to your doctor and say "Fix me, the poison is killing me!" and then get mad when he has no fix, you only make yourself look bad. The doctor has no solution to you choosing to poison yourself. The solution is undo the policy of poisoning yourself. Stop eating poison. That's your "fix".

You keep demanding Republicans fix your socialist poisoning of healthcare and banking, and then blame us, like it's our fault your system doesn't work? No. Sorry. You own it.

The solution is to deregulate, reduce the controls, and let the system work.

dear dudes on the right,

It is Always going to be Your Fault whenever the right cannot make more money through Faith in Capitalism to lower our Tax burden even with recourse to an official Mint.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The simple and only answer to the Op is

Forcibly taking from some to give to others is wrong.

Voluntary transactions between adults is not wrong even if one person profits from it

I would argue that right or wrong corporate greed has to be stopped.
Anyone who has looked at the circular model will notice that , in the medium run,
all income from corporations comes from the goods and services consumed from households. Gathering wealth in such a fashion is unhealthy for the economy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Is redistribution of wealth, aided by social institutions, from the top down wrong, but from up from the lower strata to the top OK?

Isn't all taxation just legalized theft and 'redistribution of wealth?'

While some taxation's justifiable (gotta be able to build and support infrastructure and the like) too much becomes theft and unjustified.

Not all tax dollars are given to the people via government ham handed social engineering scams some of the money actually

The simple and only answer to the Op is

Forcibly taking from some to give to others is wrong.

Voluntary transactions between adults is not wrong even if one person profits from it

I would argue that right or wrong corporate greed has to be stopped.
Anyone who has looked at the circular model will notice that , in the medium run,
all income from corporations comes from the goods and services consumed from households. Gathering wealth in such a fashion is unhealthy for the economy.

All those transactions are voluntary therefore legitimate.

And if no one can profit from the movement of goods and services then there is no economy.

 

[Staidhup]

Ever sense the dawn of man there has always been a very few possessing the greatest amount of wealth. Its a fact of life some are successful, others are not. Get over it. The only difference being that in our "modern" world there is now a belief that justify's the desire to covet the possessions of another within the context of equality without assuming the sacrifice and put forth the effort to provide for the future. In this "modern" world we are blasted with mass advertising, having to keep up with the Jones, and living for the moment, toys and all, the perfect materialistic world, a fools paradise.
I for one remain content with the rewards I have received from my labor and hard work. I only wish we could have been able to retain a larger share. My regret is that we lived well within our means and didn't trust in anyone to provide for our future. Now if the government will only honor my Social Security benefits and leave me alone I will be content.

 

[danielpalos]

The simple and only answer to the Op is

Forcibly taking from some to give to others is wrong.

Voluntary transactions between adults is not wrong even if one person profits from it

I would argue that right or wrong corporate greed has to be stopped.
Anyone who has looked at the circular model will notice that , in the medium run,
all income from corporations comes from the goods and services consumed from households. Gathering wealth in such a fashion is unhealthy for the economy.

We really should blame our elected representatives for not coming up with better policies public, that provide better market based metrics than rule-of-State law on a potentially for profit-basis.