Zone1 Re-thinking: Why most people end up in Hell

[Cougarbear]

oh, so Hell is not eternal, as Jesus Himself says (Mt 25:31)

this is why people say Mormonism is a cult

Matt 25:31, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: " So, why are you misquoting the Bible? This is why your brand of Christianity is false.

 

[ninja007]

Who ends up in heaven? Do racist, violent, murderous slave owners who preach their faith in God end up in Heaven? How about Catholic clergy who have sexually molested young boys and girls? They have all been "saved", after all.

catholicism is a false religion.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I have touched on this topic before but I left out Most important reason:

the Cross... and "the cross"

One is the Cross of Christ, the "smaller" is our own individual crosses that He told us to carry.

The thing is, just like Christ's Cross, our own cross gets heavier as time goes by. The longer you live in this godawful world, the more difficult it is to follow Christ (and maybe you weren't following Him too well in the first place... sigh)

So yeh, it is human nature (we are all guilty of this) to want to live well in the world. That's likely why most people despise the homeless, the street people. They can't imagine living like that and automatically think they must be insane and/or on drugs... etc.. Well, I won't digress any further on that topic but the point is that we all want to live well... have a nice home, 1 or more cars, preferably 20... Most people hate deprivations and etc...

But God seems to be saying: No, you Christians are going to.. not be treated so well in this life and I am not going to deliver you from your crosses or not all of them anyway.. at least not immediately. Heaven is where all misery ends, not this... godawful place called Earth

Where did Augustine say that the same fire that tortures the damned purifies the elect?

I've seen it quoted on internet sites that Augustine said that the same fire that tortures the damned purifies the elect. Supposedly he meant by this that the fires of Purgatory and Hell are the sa...

christianity.stackexchange.com

Jesus may allude to the suffering and the rich, "eye of the needle quote" but this doesn't mean we should just desire abject poverty for salvation. I want resources to help others who may not have much. Isn't that what Jesus himself through his miracles? The curing of others was really in fact pricless if we think about it. So pursue your dreams and success and help others along the way.

 

[Lisa558]

Because you say so?

Good luck with that.

And you say that Jesus was the son of Gd and that only those who believe in him are “saved.” As if everyone else goes to hell.

Yeah, right.

 

[Lisa558]

catholicism is a false religion.

And yours is the true one?

 

[Meriweather]

catholicism is a false religion.

List three things that are false about it.

 

[theHawk]

And you say that Jesus was the son of Gd and that only those who believe in him are “saved.” As if everyone else goes to hell.

Yeah, right.

Well that is the truth. That is what he said. If you believe Jesus was a liar, then….good luck.

 

[Lisa558]

Well that is the truth. That is what he said. If you believe Jesus was a liar, then….good luck.

I don’t believe Jesus ever said such a thing. No practicing Jew would.

 

[theHawk]

I don’t believe Jesus ever said such a thing. No practicing Jew would.

Jesus was not some “practicing Jew”. He is the Messiah and the Christ.

What gets me about Jews is they think they know exactly how God is going to reveal himself. The prophets were given bits and pieces.

But feel free to spell out in detail how a “real messiah” would had or will arrive and exactly what will he do for the human race? Build a physical temple in Jerusalem?

 

[Lisa558]

Jesus was not some “practicing Jew”. He is the Messiah and the Christ.

What gets me about Jews is they think they know exactly how God is going to reveal himself. The prophets were given bits and pieces.

But feel free to spell out in detail how a “real messiah” would had or will arrive and exactly what will he do for the human race? Build a physical temple in Jerusalem?

From the Jewish perspective, yes….Jesus was a Jewish man.

What gets me about Christians is they can get quite annoyed and belligerent when people of other faiths refuse to submit to their belief system. It’s the same “my way is the only correct way” attitude one finds among leftists.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I have touched on this topic before but I left out Most important reason:

the Cross... and "the cross"

One is the Cross of Christ, the "smaller" is our own individual crosses that He told us to carry.

The thing is, just like Christ's Cross, our own cross gets heavier as time goes by. The longer you live in this godawful world, the more difficult it is to follow Christ (and maybe you weren't following Him too well in the first place... sigh)

So yeh, it is human nature (we are all guilty of this) to want to live well in the world. That's likely why most people despise the homeless, the street people. They can't imagine living like that and automatically think they must be insane and/or on drugs... etc.. Well, I won't digress any further on that topic but the point is that we all want to live well... have a nice home, 1 or more cars, preferably 20... Most people hate deprivations and etc...

But God seems to be saying: No, you Christians are going to.. not be treated so well in this life and I am not going to deliver you from your crosses or not all of them anyway.. at least not immediately. Heaven is where all misery ends, not this... godawful place called Earth

Where did Augustine say that the same fire that tortures the damned purifies the elect?

I've seen it quoted on internet sites that Augustine said that the same fire that tortures the damned purifies the elect. Supposedly he meant by this that the fires of Purgatory and Hell are the sa...

christianity.stackexchange.com

Why most people end up in Hell?

Atheism

 

[theHawk]

From the Jewish perspective, yes….Jesus was a Jewish man.

What gets me about Christians is they can get quite annoyed and belligerent when people of other faiths refuse to submit to their belief system. It’s the same “my way is the only correct way” attitude one finds among leftists.

I am not getting belligerent. The belligerent ones are usually the anti-Christs that hate Christianity. They get very upset when you start speaking the truth about Jesus.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Gravity?

 

[Lisa558]

I am not getting belligerent. The belligerent ones are usually the anti-Christs that hate Christianity. They get very upset when you start speaking the truth about Jesus.

It’s because it’s not “the truth” to the majority of people in different religions. And going around with the stated attitude that “I am right and you are wrong” does get people upset.

And there’s no such thing as an “anti-Christ.” Even that label reeks of disdain.

 

[theHawk]

It’s because it’s not “the truth” to the majority of people in different religions. And going around with the stated attitude that “I am right and you are wrong” does get people upset.

And there’s no such thing as an “anti-Christ.” Even that label reeks of disdain.

But you are claiming he isn’t the Messiah or the Son of God. So you are just as much saying “I am right and you are wrong”.

Of course there are anti-Christs. Anyone who does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior is an anti-Christ, but especially the ones that hate him, his message, and Christians.

 

[Lisa558]

But you are claiming he isn’t the Messiah or the Son of God. So you are just as much saying “I am right and you are wrong”.

No. I have said repeatedly that different religions can believe different things. You belong to a religion that says Jesus was son of Gd, and I belong to a religion that says he wasn’t.

Of course there are anti-Christs. Anyone who does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior is an anti-Christ, but especially the ones that hate him, his message, and Christians.

I know of nobody who hates Jesus. And I said in my OP that he was a good Jewish man who taught traditional Jewish values (like many who came before and after him.) And I know of nobody who hates Christians as a group - just those who go around telling non-Christians they are wrong….Jews are cursed….Gd is angry at Jew…..etc, etc., etc.

And of course I hate Christians who walk into the house and blow out our Shabbat candles and scratch J E W across the hood of our family’s new car.

But let’s not pretend that Christians are so “persecuted.” Not after what Jews have had to contend with.

 

[nomadic5]

Jesus may allude to the suffering and the rich, "eye of the needle quote" but this doesn't mean we should just desire abject poverty for salvation. I want resources to help others who may not have much. Isn't that what Jesus himself through his miracles? The curing of others was really in fact pricless if we think about it. So pursue your dreams and success and help others along the way.

well, what does a person do after praying to God about needing more resources and God seems to say No you don't... doesn't give you what you think you NEED (not want but need)?

I don't get it and no one u/stands God completely. That's why it is BAD... dangerous for mere humans to presume that they know what God thinks. We all do it but some people make a whole life out of it, it seems.. preaching health/wealth/prosperity... Well, even if you have all that, you are going to lose it some day.. have to leave it with who knows who and leave it all behind to face judgment.

So maybe that is why God leaves some people without an abundance of resources..? He is preparing them for another world?

it's a thought... but again, no one can claim to know exactly what God thinks.. When Job was suffering and wondering why God allowed all thesuffering, God finally spoke to him and said something like this

Where were you when I created the earth and the sky? (and etc)--------

the implication is: maybe God doesn't like humans presuming on Him?

 

[nomadic5]

And yours is the true one?

and which one is it?

there are thousands to choose from... which is not good, as God established ONE Church..

 

[nomadic5]

Jesus was not some “practicing Jew”. He is the Messiah and the Christ.

What gets me about Jews is they think they know exactly how God is going to reveal himself. The prophets were given bits and pieces.

But feel free to spell out in detail how a “real messiah” would had or will arrive and exactly what will he do for the human race? Build a physical temple in Jerusalem?

What gets me about the Jews is this:

What more could they possibly ask for in a Messiah?

Jesus brought people back from the dead... changed water into wine.. walked on water..

and I could go on and on about all He did and said... would like to know what they are waiting for?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What gets me about the Jews is this:
What more could they possibly ask for in a Messiah?
Jesus brought people back from the dead... changed water into wine.. walked on water ... and I could go on and on about all He did and said... would like to know what they are waiting for?

Have you ever considered the possibility that those things never happened?

Early Christians wanted to believe that Jesus could work miracles and was “the Messiah” … so after his death the stories about him grew, and indeed it is possible that Jesus tried to fulfill some of the popular Jewish expectations of what a Messiah would be like while he still lived. There were many would-be “Messiahs” in those days who had followings … for a time anyway.

Also, the Jewish “Messiah” was often then seen as more of a political liberator, or “King of the Jews,” who would save Israel and usher in the Jewish God’s rule on earth — not just get crucified as thousands of others did, including thousands of followers of Spartacus and other non-Jewish rebels. It was a time of longing for a “new dispensation” when society seemed at a dead end and corruption was everywhere. It was also a period of revolutionary “nationalism” in Israel.

Indeed, the “Holy Land” saw the last great national (and fanatical religious) revolt against Rome a few decades afterwards. Its failure turned the Jews and others to look away from “this world” and any hope of national salvation and look toward heaven. Some Jews even accepted a more passive vision of the Messiah’s coming — one that would not immediately bring heaven and earth together, but rather just a quickly passing “son of god” who “died for our sins.”

The Jews had long had a sort of national / tribal “guilt complex” about God punishing them for not following his strict commandments. Now that belief was transformed and “individualized” and made available to the non-Jewish world by Christianity. The Jewish religion’s hard edges and tribalism were rejected, allowing eventually for the Roman Empire and Church to accept the new Christian religion and even use it to keep rebellious movements from arising. Psychologically it must have brought great comfort to millions.