Debate Now Rational Discussion Thread - The National Debt Paradox

[sparky]

And other players factor in.........

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~S~

 

[Votto]

And other players factor in.........


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~S~

Yep

 

[MisterBeale]

It appears this road will sneak in digital IDs here?

GENIUS Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Epstein’s Hidden Reach, Digital IDs & a Turning Point | Whitney Webb & Mark Goodwin​

Sep 27, 2025
"Whitney Webb and Mark Goodwin join Marty to examine how surveillance infrastructure expands under the Trump administration through Palantir contracts and digital ID implementation. The discussion covers stable coin legislation driving global capital flight, Vietnam's mass debanking requiring biometric verification, and California's new hate speech laws targeting social media platforms. They analyze how domestic terrorism rhetoric justifies pre-crime surveillance technology, drawing parallels to Operation Gladio's strategy of tension. The conversation explores how Agenda 2030 goals continue through ESG scores and financial control mechanisms, while examining the transhumanist philosophies of tech elites like Peter Thiel. They discuss Patriot Act expansion into cryptocurrency surveillance and the importance of building local resilience networks outside digital control systems."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Lots and lots of information all over about how many think it will be done through devaluation and crypto. Now even the Russians and Chinese are expecting it.

This was a good explanation I thought.

Russia Says U.S. Planning $37 Trillion Crypto Reset​

1.9M views 5 days ago

Run by the “Good Guys” at Palantir

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I've asked the same Q quite a few times woodie......there appears no simple answer , seems we've 'kicked the can down the road' to the point where we can no longer do so.


Maybe it's time to admit we're a bankrupt nation brought on by a failed system via all those creatures from jekyll island we were warned about......before the quantitative sleazing starts again.....

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I'm reading many countries are hoarding gold lately , seems they realize every fiat in human hx crashed/burned.

but these are smaller countries with better GNP/GND ratios who aren't over their heads in debt.

meanwhile, in the USofA, i'll wager more dust exists in Ft Knox than gold, and our federal reserve is neither federal nor a reserve.....~S~

What ever happened to the audit of Fort Knox?

 

[cnm]

Thus any attempt to alleviate this burden through a budgetary process is essentially impossible under the current system because Congress can replace any reductions with even more spending.

Congress can replace the reductions Congress makes?
Be that as it may, Congress is irrelevant in the US now, Shirley?

 

[task0778]

The only answer is painful and it involves living within our means and paying off the debt.

This right here is the only solution that will work long term IMHO. Until spending is under control to be no greater than revenue, debt and deficits will continue to grow until such time as to become unsustainable.


The debt grows daily as the government spends more than it collects in taxes. Interest payments now consume $879.9 billion annually—more than the cost of Medicare or national defense.

US National Debt: $37.8 Trillion and Growing

As of October 3, 2025, the total gross national debt stands at $37.85 trillion. This massive debt load equals more than $109,000 for every person in America.ContentsWhat the National Debt MeasuresTwo Types of Government DebtWho Owns America’s DebtHistorical Context: How America Got HereMeasuring...

govfacts.org

And it's going up and will continue to increase until spending is limited to or less than revenue. Unfortunately, I do not see that happening until enough people realize the fiscal trouble we're in. Some people say it's not a problem, all we gotta do is create more money out of thin air. Also known as debt monetization, I think that can be done if done wisely and spread out over years, even decades. But it requires fiscal discipline, you just can't solve the problem while you're still creating deficits and more debt.

 

[Cassandro]

This right here is the only solution that will work long term IMHO. Until spending is under control to be no greater than revenue, debt and deficits will continue to grow until such time as to become unsustainable.

What "solution" is that? What is the first (or next) step to be taken? Spending will only become "under control" when there is no more (or valueless) money to be spent. Is that your plan?

P.S. Deficits and debt are two different things. Budgets may be temporarily balanced, but they will never pay down the debt.

 

[Concerned American]

This right here is the only solution that will work long term IMHO. Until spending is under control to be no greater than revenue, debt and deficits will continue to grow until such time as to become unsustainable.


The debt grows daily as the government spends more than it collects in taxes. Interest payments now consume $879.9 billion annually—more than the cost of Medicare or national defense.

US National Debt: $37.8 Trillion and Growing

As of October 3, 2025, the total gross national debt stands at $37.85 trillion. This massive debt load equals more than $109,000 for every person in America.ContentsWhat the National Debt MeasuresTwo Types of Government DebtWho Owns America’s DebtHistorical Context: How America Got HereMeasuring...

govfacts.org

And it's going up and will continue to increase until spending is limited to or less than revenue. Unfortunately, I do not see that happening until enough people realize the fiscal trouble we're in. Some people say it's not a problem, all we gotta do is create more money out of thin air. Also known as debt monetization, I think that can be done if done wisely and spread out over years, even decades. But it requires fiscal discipline, you just can't solve the problem while you're still creating deficits and more debt.

Will Rogers said, "If you find yourself in a hole, quit digging." Words to live by.

 

[task0778]

What "solution" is that? What is the first (or next) step to be taken? Spending will only become "under control" when there is no more (or valueless) money to be spent. Is that your plan?

No, that would be a pretty stupid plan. I don't know if a balanced budget amendment is needed or if Congress can control themselves to restrict spending relative to revenue on a regular basis for quite some time (decades). Doubt it though, in either case. Valueless money is the result of creating more money out of thin air to the point where it loses it's value; in other words monetizing the debt. Don't do it.

P.S. Deficits and debt are two different things. Budgets may be temporarily balanced, but they will never pay down the debt.

Budgets are a framework where no money at all is allocated or spent. You're right, budgets do not pay down the debt, but they do provide a framework for how to spend federal revenues. But they mean nothing if Congress ignores a balanced budget and spends as much as they want to. Deficits are the amount on money spent over a specific year, while debt is the total amount of money the federal gov't owes. If deficits are not less than revenues received in a given year then debt is increased, right? I thought everyone knew that.

 

[Concerned American]

Budgets may be temporarily balanced, but they will never pay down the debt.

Au contraire. The debt becomes one of the line items in the budget. Eventually, as in your personal finances, the debt will be paid down given there is no deficit spending--i.e. a balanced budget.

 

[Cassandro]

If deficits are not less than revenues received in a given year then debt is increased, right? I thought everyone knew that.

If expenditures are more than revenues, then a deficit will result. This will cause more borrowing and debt unless additional revenues are found. Everyone knows this but few have any solutions to end this cycle.

 

[Concerned American]

Everyone knows this but few have any solutions to end this cycle.

There are solutions, but few have the fiscal discipline to accomplish it. The ONLY real solution is to reduce spending to less than revenue and pay down the debt. It isn't easy but it can be done. There are many of us who have overcome the cycle and are living debt-free and building wealth as a direct result.

 

[task0778]

If expenditures are more than revenues, then a deficit will result. This will cause more borrowing and debt unless additional revenues are found. Everyone knows this but few have any solutions to end this cycle.

JMO, but I don't believe we have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Yeah, we can raise revenue somewhat, but the real lifting is in spending cuts, to the point where expenditures cannot be more than revenues. More money is not the answer.

 

[Concerned American]

JMO, but I don't believe we have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Yeah, we can raise revenue somewhat, but the real lifting is in spending cuts, to the point where expenditures cannot be more than revenues. More money is not the answer.

I believe most spending problems would take care themselves if we came to the realization that we cannot be the world's charity. That isn't what government's mission should be. We are in debt and we shouldn't be borrowing to support the less fortunate--if the private sector wants to support that, more power to them.

 

[task0778]

I believe most spending problems would take care themselves if we came to the realization that we cannot be the world's charity. That isn't what government's mission should be. We are in debt and we shouldn't be borrowing to support the less fortunate--if the private sector wants to support that, more power to them.

By world's charities are you talking about foreign aid to other countries? Yeah, we oughta be taking a look at that, not sure if we still do but for awhile we were giving money to China.

The current deficit is what, $1.8 trillion a year? We ain't giving that much money away overseas. Here at home is another story, I do not support the federal gov't subsidizing housing, education, and health care. IMHO, those things belong at the state level for them to determine what to do about them.

Sooner or later we're gonna have to bite the bullet and the longer it takes to do it the worse the problem gets. Clearly we ain't there yet though.

 

[Concerned American]

I do not support the federal gov't subsidizing housing, education, and health care. IMHO, those things belong at the state level for them to determine what to do about them.

Foreign aid is a big part of it, but by charity, I am including this ^^^. I don't think the government should be a charity. These are things that define the character of the nation. It belongs in the private sector. Not forced on the tax payer. Taxes are for the benefit of the populace as a whole--not the individual.

 

[Cassandro]

I apologize for introducing ideas that are beyond your conceptual capabilities.

 

[Concerned American]

I apologize for introducing ideas that are beyond your conceptual capabilities.

Topic. It is your OP, please stick to it and ditch the adhoms.

 

[Cassandro]

Topic. It is your OP, please stick to it and ditch the adhoms.

Here are the ideas which I presented in the OP which you have failed to address in any meaningful way:

Two ideas that are now being discussed are revaluing the Treasury's gold reserves and issuing gold backed securities at lower interest rates. While neither will solve this problem alone, the may be necessary ingredients for a more lasting solution. What if they were both announced this year, followed by a (one-time) balanced budget announced at the end of the fiscal year (due to gold revaluation and tariff revenue)? In the mean time, a combination of increased money supply and lower interest rates would cause the dollar (and the nominal Debt) to lose value. This could provide the impetus for creating an alternative gold backed currency which would allow conversion of old currency and debt at a specified ratio. This would give a "haircut" to existing creditors, but would be attractive to new investors. If gold continues its preferred status, it might be a win-win situation in the long run (emphasis added)

Instead, you merely called it "smoke and mirrors" and "currency manipulation." If you feel that pointing this out constitutes a personal attack on you, then so be it.