Rangel: An Attack on Bush is an attack on all Americans (Merged)

[Dr Grump]

Do you have anything to add to this discussion that is marginally coherent or relevant?

 

[musicman]

Thank you. Well done.

 

[KarlMarx]

or calling people who disagree with you unAmerican or terrorist supporters?

There is a difference in comparing someone to the most evil person of the 20th century and calling someone on giving aid to the enemy.

Bush isn't Hitler, Chavez, Castro and Kim Jong Il are. Bush doesn't run death camps. He doesn't imprison people for criticizing the government. Bush's term is up in 2008, those three won't leave power voluntarily. Hugo Chavez actually did come to power using fraudulent means, that's not an opinion, that's a fact. I'm sure you couldn't go to Caracas and start criticizing Chavez in pubic, not unless you want to spend time in jail, getting tortured for real.

Jillian, did you notice, some of the things that Hugo Chavez said? Bush is the Devil, Bush is a drunk, Bush got there because of his father, Bush is a cowboy, Bush is "Mr. Danger", Bush is a coward. He simply repeated the things that the American Left has been saying about Bush for the past five years! It's no wonder that Chavez felt bold enough to swagger onto American soil after his screed at the United Nations and repeat those same things. He insulted our president, he insulted our country and he thought that Americans would embrace him like some South American Messiah! Unfortunately, at NYU, he actually did find a crowd of people who were dumb enough to admire him.

Hugo Chavez is a menace and the day is coming when I, and those who think the way I do, will be proven correct.

 

[dilloduck]

=sigh=

OK, I get it. You're going to duck and hide until you're absolutely, inescapably busted dead to rights. What a waste of time and energy; you might protest loudly that you're not a liberal, but damned if you don't ACT like one.

Clearly, dillo's point, in:



...is that it is hypocritical for liberals to criticize Chavez for doing what they themselves do 24/7/365(6).

You exercised (rather poorly and transparently, I might add) the hoary "willful and expedient blindness" gambit, in attempt to twist his meaning into:



I'll make it simple for YOU:

dillo's statement--------your pathetic attempt tp present it as something else (AKA, a lie)

THAT'S what the fuck I'm talking about.

Thanks---I was about to try to clear things up for those who want to stay in the dark but you did it for me!

 

[Dr Grump]

Bush isn't Hitler, Chavez, Castro and Kim Jong Il are. Bush doesn't run death camps. He doesn't imprison people for criticizing the government. Bush's term is up in 2008, those three won't leave power voluntarily. Hugo Chavez actually did come to power using fraudulent means, that's not an opinion, that's a fact. I'm sure you couldn't go to Caracas and start criticizing Chavez in pubic, not unless you want to spend time in jail, getting tortured for real.

Hugo Chavez is a menace and the day is coming when I, and those who think the way I do, will be proven correct.

Total crap re Chavez. Have you even read up on the guy? He does not run death camps. Chavez is looking at amending the constitution of Venezuala so he can run again, and he can as long as he can get his legislators to agree - and considering his party is in the majority - he probably will. You can criticise Chavez in Venezuala (in fact some cartoonists of the mostly RIGHT-LEANING press used to have cartoons of him as a monkey because he has american indian and negro blood - very racist, no?), however he is VERY popular amongst the poor - and guess how much of the Venezulan population is poor? The vast majority, therefore that is why he gets his numbers. Chavez is about as much a menace as my left toe nail. Just because he doesn't dance to Bush's neocon mate's tune doesn't mean he's a menace. Bone up on the guy before spouting off about him. He is not even close to being like Hitler or Kim or Stalin...You may not like socialism, as is your want, but that doesn't mean a socialist is a menace. Back up your allegations with credible links, otherwise you are spouting hot air (right-wing blogs are not credible BTW)....

 

[dilloduck]

Total crap re Chavez. Have you even read up on the guy? He does not run death camps. Chavez is looking at amending the constitution of Venezuala so he can run again, and he can as long as he can get his legislators to agree - and considering his party is in the majority - he probably will. You can criticise Chavez in Venezuala (in fact some cartoonists of the mostly RIGHT-LEANING press used to have cartoons of him as a monkey because he has american indian and negro blood - very racist, no?), however he is VERY popular amongst the poor - and guess how much of the Venezulan population is poor? The vast majority, therefore that is why he gets his numbers. Chavez is about as much a menace as my left toe nail. Just because he doesn't dance to Bush's neocon mate's tune doesn't mean he's a menace. Bone up on the guy before spouting off about him. He is not even close to being like Hitler or Kim or Stalin...You may not like socialism, as is your want, but that doesn't mean a socialist is a menace. Back up your allegations with credible links, otherwise you are spouting hot air (right-wing blogs are not credible BTW)....

What the hell is Chavez doing giving heating oil to Americans when his "people" back home are poor ?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

It's not that I was in any way reluctant to answer; I just felt sure that you knew the answer already.

I knew what your answer was going to be. I just didn't agree with it.

I wasn't in this one way or the other, until I saw "rhetorical devices" being thrown around. That sort of trips my trigger.

Like the ones that dillo was using as well. Rhetoric is a tool for debate. This is still a debate forum, right?

 

[jillian]

What the hell is Chavez doing giving heating oil to Americans when his "people" back home are poor ?

interestingly enough, Chavez puts a great deal of the oil money back into educating his people and helping them do better, something Bush's buddies, the Saud family doesn't do.

 

[musicman]

Thanks---I was about to try to clear things up for those who want to stay in the dark but you did it for me!

Ha ha - no sweat, dillo. How's the old saying go? Oh, yeah: "'Tis better to light one little candle than to listen to a bunch of bullshit" - or something like that!

 

[dilloduck]

I knew what your answer was going to be. I just didn't agree with it.



Like the ones that dillo was using as well. Rhetoric is a tool for debate. This is still a debate forum, right?

"sigh"

Liberals call Bush every name in the book.
Foreign leaders come to America and call Bush every name in the book.
Liberals tell foreign leaders not to call Bush names because they are not Americans.
Liberals think anyone should live here and be free to do anything even if they are not Americans.
Liberals are hypocritical and live by standards that they don't allow others to live by.

 

[dilloduck]

interestingly enough, Chavez puts a great deal of the oil money back into educating his people and helping them do better, something Bush's buddies, the Saud family doesn't do.

Total lie, Jillian. Bush and his buddies donate millions to charities. How can you live with yourself knowing full well you are spreading lies!

 

[Mr. P]

interestingly enough, Chavez puts a great deal of the oil money back into educating his people and helping them do better, something Bush's buddies, the Saud family doesn't do.

Big difference where that MONEY comes from too. Be our Gov doesn't own business. Can we say tax, instead? Apples oranges.:tongue1:

 

[jillian]

Total lie, Jillian. Bush and his buddies donate millions to charities. How can you live with yourself knowing full well you are spreading lies!

Did you bother reading the post, dear? I said, "Bush's buddies the Saud family". You know, the saudis... d'uh!

Or are you in such a lather that you're not reading clearly?

And the only lies I've seen sure don't come from me.

 

[jillian]

Big difference where that MONEY comes from too. Be our Gov doesn't own business. Can we say tax, instead? Apples oranges.:tongue1:

Not sure what that has to do with the Saud family.

 

[dilloduck]

Did you bother reading the post, dear? I said, "Bush's buddies the Saud family". You know, the saudis... d'uh!

Or are you in such a lather that you're not reading clearly?

And the only lies I've seen sure don't come from me.

The Sauds share the wealth too----BIG TIME.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

"sigh"

Liberals call Bush every name in the book.
Foreign leaders come to America and call Bush every name in the book.
Liberals tell foreign leaders not to call Bush names because they are not Americans.
Liberals think anyone should live here and be free to do anything even if they are not Americans.
Liberals are hypocritical and live by standards that they don't allow others to live by.

Liberals hate America.
Liberals are dumb.
Liberals are gay.
Liberals cause cancer.
Liberals kill puppies.
Liberals hate kittens.
Liberals cause tornados.


See, I can do it to.

 

[dilloduck]

Liberals hate America.
Liberals are dumb.
Liberals are gay.
Liberals cause cancer.
Liberals kill puppies.
Liberals hate kittens.
Liberals cause tornados.


See, I can do it to.

Dodge the subject with silly exagerations ?---of course you can--it's a mandatory liberal tool of distracting from the truth.

 

[KarlMarx]

interestingly enough, Chavez puts a great deal of the oil money back into educating his people and helping them do better, something Bush's buddies, the Saud family doesn't do.

That's interesting.... Hugo Chavez controls a large part of the economy... how does that not make him a dictator? Bush doesn't control the economy, except to get a tax cut in once every two terms, but he IS a dictator?

The part of Chavez educating his people and helping them do better is starting to sound like the claims people used to make about Castro. "The US Imperialists, they're not educating their people, they're not helping their people.....". Plus, who is Chavez pals with? Oh yeah, Fidel Castro... what's that saying about "birds of a feather"?

BTW... what do United States Oil Companies do? They pay taxes! Who decides where that money goes? The United States Government!!!!

Of course, the Left's answer always is .... the rich and the corporations should pay more taxes.... the answer really is... no, the Government should spend the money it has more effectively. More than 5 Trillion dollars have been spent over the past forty years to wipe out poverty, and it's still with us. Apparently, the government is mismanaged.

 

[KarlMarx]

Total crap re Chavez. Have you even read up on the guy? He does not run death camps. Chavez is looking at amending the constitution of Venezuala so he can run again, and he can as long as he can get his legislators to agree - and considering his party is in the majority - he probably will. You can criticise Chavez in Venezuala (in fact some cartoonists of the mostly RIGHT-LEANING press used to have cartoons of him as a monkey because he has american indian and negro blood - very racist, no?), however he is VERY popular amongst the poor - and guess how much of the Venezulan population is poor? The vast majority, therefore that is why he gets his numbers. Chavez is about as much a menace as my left toe nail. Just because he doesn't dance to Bush's neocon mate's tune doesn't mean he's a menace. Bone up on the guy before spouting off about him. He is not even close to being like Hitler or Kim or Stalin...You may not like socialism, as is your want, but that doesn't mean a socialist is a menace. Back up your allegations with credible links, otherwise you are spouting hot air (right-wing blogs are not credible BTW)....

OK Grump, tell you what, why don't YOU post some proof of what you claim? Convince me, if you're able that Hugo Chavez is VERY POPULAR amongst the poor, the vast majority. Convince me that those elections were not fraudulent. Convince me that his government isn't corrupt.

Furthermore, convince me that Bush and Cheney are expecting everyone to, as you say, "dance their tune"... go ahead ... and I'll decide which links I'll accept as valid, and what isn't ... just like you do with everyone else... and don't post anything that isn't conservative, it won't be accepted as credible.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Dodge the subject with silly exagerations ?---of course you can--it's a mandatory liberal tool of distracting from the truth.

I've said my peace. My Father has a saying:

"You cannot debate a man that you have to educate first."

I don't feel like educating tonight.