Rangel: An Attack on Bush is an attack on all Americans (Merged)

[musicman]

Don't dodge the question. What would you think it means?

Ah - so you choose to travel further down dishonesty's seductive path: now it is I who am dodging the question! This is disappointing, otf. You know perfectly well what dillo meant; you are attempting to employ the willful, expedient blindness of the liberal. That's the bad thing about the "fence" - it's a short fall to the wrong side.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I wonder if Rangel would now agree with Pat Robertson?
Seems Robertson was on the right track. However he was forced to apologize for his remarks. I'm sure Chavez won't be apologizing.

One likely and self-serving reason for his uncalled-for insults is that Chavez is up for re-election in December. Anti-Americanism sells well in world-wide Socialist circles.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Ah - so you choose to travel further down dishonesty's seductive path: now it is I who am dodging the question! This is disappointing, otf. You know perfectly well what dillo meant; you are attempting to employ the willful, expedient blindness of the liberal. That's the bad thing about the "fence" - it's a short fall to the wrong side.

What the fuck are you talking about? Here, I'll make it easy.

Question----------->Answer

You see, I ask a question. You give an answer.

Hint: The answer is not: onthefence is a liberal.

 

[jillian]

I wonder if Rangel would now agree with Pat Robertson?
Seems Robertson was on the right track. However he was forced to apologize for his remarks. I'm sure Chavez won't be apologizing.

One likely and self-serving reason for his uncalled-for insults is that Chavez is up for re-election in December. Anti-Americanism sells well in world-wide Socialist circles.

Well... you know how it is... he's talking to his "base".

 

[Dr Grump]

One likely and self-serving reason for his uncalled-for insults is that Chavez is up for re-election in December.

B-B-b-but I thought he was a dictator! It must be so! All the neocons and conservatives on this board AND John Bolton say it's true!!

 

[Bullypulpit]

'we keep the family fights within the family

Just like any family with an alcoholic member. Keep it all quiet and all in the family. Keep enabling the alcoholic. Doesn't get any more dysfunctional that that.

 

[musicman]

=sigh=

OK, I get it. You're going to duck and hide until you're absolutely, inescapably busted dead to rights. What a waste of time and energy; you might protest loudly that you're not a liberal, but damned if you don't ACT like one.

Clearly, dillo's point, in:

It's the truth----Liberals have said the exact same things (and worse) about Bush and now you think Rangel is some great guy by telling some foreigner that he CAN'T do that???????? WHY EXACTLY CAN"T THEY SAY THE SAME THING THAT LIBERALS SAY?

...is that it is hypocritical for liberals to criticize Chavez for doing what they themselves do 24/7/365(6).

You exercised (rather poorly and transparently, I might add) the hoary "willful and expedient blindness" gambit, in attempt to twist his meaning into:

Second, are you actually saying that it is okay for foreign Heads of State to disrespect and American President on US soil? Because that is how this reads.

I'll make it simple for YOU:

dillo's statement--------your pathetic attempt tp present it as something else (AKA, a lie)

THAT'S what the fuck I'm talking about.

 

[Dr Grump]

dillo's statement--------your pathetic attempt tp present it as something else (AKA, a lie)

THAT'S what the fuck I'm talking about.

But your credibility on the matter takes a dive when Dillo BLATANTLY lies and you give him a free pass on it...go figure...

 

[CrimsonWhite]

=sigh=

OK, I get it. You're going to duck and hide until you're absolutely, inescapably busted dead to rights. What a waste of time and energy; you might protest loudly that you're not a liberal, but damned if you don't ACT like one.

Exactly how does a liberal act? BTW, liberals call me conservative. What does that tell you?

Clearly, dillo's point is that it is hypocritical for liberals to criticize Chavez for doing what they themselves do 24/7/365(6).

Thank you for answering the question, finally. That may be your take. Good for you. The problem is that conservatives have garnered so much animosity toward the left(and vice versa) it is impossible for the other side to admit when they agree. Instead, Rangel's statement is lessed to nothing more than an election year parlor trick. If John Shimkus(R) of Illinois had said the same thing, would you consider it election year shenanigans or would it be automatically genuine?

You don't have to answer.

 

[musicman]

But your credibility on the matter takes a dive when Dillo BLATANTLY lies and you give him a free pass on it...go figure...

You're not very good at this game either, Dr Grump. You're trying to magnify a conversational generalization into some sort of deliberately misleading misquotation. It doesn't fly; anyone comprehending the context of this thread can see that. Your hysterical attempt to create something out of nothing exposes the vacuity of your argument. You're like the Clinton Machine protesting that documentary: all you're doing is telling on yourself.

 

[Mr. P]

Looks like the Democrats can't be crazy liberal nutjobs all the time...

I saw the tape on this, BRAVO!

 

[insein]

Chavez was playing to a crowded Harlem church. He said how American Blacks are born with a death sentence and have no chance to live in this horrible country. He said that President Bush is the reason for all the problems the black man faces in this country. Sounds familiar huh? Maybe because democrats like Rangel have been preaching this for years.

Charlie Rangel about 1 year ago calls Pres. Bush Bull Connor.
http://www.nysun.com/article/20495

President Bush Is 'Our Bull Connor,' Harlem's Rep. Charles Rangel Claims

By MEGHAN CLYNE - Staff Reporter of the Sun
September 23, 2005

WASHINGTON - Comparing President Bush to the Birmingham, Ala., police commissioner whose resistance to the civil rights movement became synonymous with Southern racism, Rep. Charles Rangel said yesterday of the president: "George Bush is our Bull Connor."

Mr. Rangel's metaphoric linkage of Mr. Bush to the late Theophilus "Bull" Connor - who in 1963 turned fire hoses and attack dogs on blacks, including Martin Luther King Jr., demonstrating in favor of equal rights - met with wild applause and cheering at a Congressional Black Caucus town hall meeting, part of the organization's 35th Annual Legislative Conference.

Yesterday's town hall meeting was a highlight of the four-day conference, which today will feature an anti-Iraq-war forum with a roving, protesting anti-war mother, Cindy Sheehan; a prominent New York black activist, the Reverend Al Sharpton, and a former president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Kweisi Mfume. The conference culminates in a gala tomorrow evening.

Mr. Rangel, a Democrat who has represented Harlem for almost 35 years, spent his portion of yesterday's forum reminiscing about the civil rights struggles of the 1960s, and calling on his audience to undertake similar action today, inciting them to "revolution" after the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina and particularly its impact on indigent blacks in the Gulf Coast region.

The storm, he said, showed that "if you're black in this country, and you're poor in this country, it's not an inconvenience - it's a death sentence." Denouncing Mr. Bush for waging "a war that we cannot win under any stretch of our imagination" instead of providing for those devastated by the hurricane, Mr. Rangel left his audience with a parting thought.

"If there's one thing that George Bush has done that we should never forget, it's that for us and for our children, he has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all," the congressman said.

A White House spokesman, Kenneth Lisaius, said: "I don't think we would dignify any such inflammatory comments with a reaction."

Joining Mr. Rangel as town hall participants were Senator Clinton, a Democrat of New York; Senator Obama, a Democrat of Illinois; an entertainer and left-leaning activist, Harry Belafonte, and the conference's two cochairmen, Rep. Danny Davis, a Democrat of Illinois, and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, a Democrat of Texas.

Lets see.

Chavez (Sept 06): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

Rangel (Sept 05): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

What am i missing here? Rangel is sincere when he puts down Chavez for saying the same things he did because.....?

 

[Annie]

Well one democrat stuck to his position:

http://www.radioiowa.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=020BFC5A-FA7D-42CC-9BA6A4ED9DA063B8

Harkin defends Venezuelan President's U-N speech against Bush

by Darwin Danielson

Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, a democrat, today defended Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's United Nations speech in which Chavez called President George Bush the devil. Harkin said the comments were "incendiary", then went on to say, "Let me put it this way, I can understand the frustration, ah, and the anger of certain people around the world because of George Bush's policies." Harkin continued what has been frequent criticism of the president's foreign policy.

Harkin says Bush came to office saying he wanted a new humility in foreign policy in reaching out to other countries, but Harkin says Bush's actual policy has been heavy handed. Harkin says the anger against Bush is generated from the Iraq war, which Harkin says was "unnecessary."

Harkin says, "We tend to forget that a few days after 9-1-1 thousands, thousands of Iranians marched in a candlelight procession in Teheran in support of the United States. Every Muslim country was basically on our side. Just think, in five years, President Bush has squandered all that." Harkin says the U.S. has put billions of dollars into the Iraq war, when it could be helping poor countries with things like clean water, medical aid and education.

 

[insein]

Chavez was playing to a crowded Harlem church. He said how American Blacks are born with a death sentence and have no chance to live in this horrible country. He said that President Bush is the reason for all the problems the black man faces in this country. Sounds familiar huh? Maybe because democrats like Rangel have been preaching this for years.

Charlie Rangel about 1 year ago calls Pres. Bush Bull Connor.
http://www.nysun.com/article/20495



Lets see.

Chavez (Sept 06): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

Rangel (Sept 05): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

What am i missing here? Rangel is sincere when he puts down Chavez for saying the same things he did because.....?

Hopefully, because he is an American.

Jimmy Carter was an American and a President. Does that make him any less of a traitor?

 

[musicman]

Thank you for answering the question, finally.

It's not that I was in any way reluctant to answer; I just felt sure that you knew the answer already.

That may be your take. Good for you. The problem is that conservatives have garnered so much animosity toward the left(and vice versa) it is impossible for the other side to admit when they agree. Instead, Rangel's statement is lessed to nothing more than an election year parlor trick. If John Shimkus(R) of Illinois had said the same thing, would you consider it election year shenanigans or would it be automatically genuine?

You don't have to answer.

I wasn't in this one way or the other, until I saw "rhetorical devices" being thrown around. That sort of trips my trigger.

 

[Dr Grump]

You're not very good at this game either, Dr Grump. You're trying to magnify a conversational generalization into some sort of deliberately misleading misquotation. It doesn't fly; anyone comprehending the context of this thread can see that. Your hysterical attempt to create something out of nothing exposes the vacuity of your argument. You're like the Clinton Machine protesting that documentary: all you're doing is telling on yourself.

See OTF's last post to you. That about sums it up and his reasoning (one which I shared in case you hadn't guessed - and you hadn't obviously). Even if Dillo's "generalisation" was "obvious" it was a more serious breech IMO. As for playing a game, that is one thing I try NOT to do. I leave that to the right-wing spin doctors like you...after all, you need to stick at what your'e good at...and spinning certainly seems to be your forte (and getting bent out of shape over nothing). As for being hysterical, another blatant lie. Not even close. Me pointing out your own foiables after you attempting (badly) to point out others must stick in your craw. However, trying to magnify MY contribution to a degree it doesn't deserve shows your own desperation....

 

[Mr. P]

Chavez was playing to a crowded Harlem church. He said how American Blacks are born with a death sentence and have no chance to live in this horrible country. He said that President Bush is the reason for all the problems the black man faces in this country. Sounds familiar huh? Maybe because democrats like Rangel have been preaching this for years.

Charlie Rangel about 1 year ago calls Pres. Bush Bull Connor.
http://www.nysun.com/article/20495



Lets see.

Chavez (Sept 06): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

Rangel (Sept 05): Rallies with Cindy Sheehan. Says Iraq is a sham. Says black Americans are put down by Bush.

What am i missing here? Rangel is sincere when he puts down Chavez for saying the same things he did because.....?

Hopefully, because he is an American. I hope, transcends stuff like politics, I hope.

 

[Mr. P]

Jimmy Carter was an American and a President. Does that make him any less of a traitor?

Well, no. But do you see Carter making a comment?

 

[jillian]

Jimmy Carter was an American and a President. Does that make him any less of a traitor?

Interesting... I guess it's only unAmerican to insult Bush... you can say whatever you want about Dem presidents.

The hypocrisy really is interesting to watch.

 

[musicman]

See OTF's last post to you. That about sums it up and his reasoning (one which I shared in case you hadn't guessed - and you hadn't obviously). Even if Dillo's "generalisation" was "obvious" it was a more serious breech IMO. As for playing a game, that is one thing I try NOT to do. I leave that to the right-wing spin doctors like you...after all, you need to stick at what your'e good at...and spinning certainly seems to be your forte (and getting bent out of shape over nothing). As for being hysterical, another blatant lie. Not even close. Me pointing out your own foiables after you attempting (badly) to point out others must stick in your craw. However, trying to magnify MY contribution to a degree it doesn't deserve shows your own desperation....

Do you have anything to add to this discussion that is marginally coherent or relevant?