Radical Cleric: It's OK to Blow Yourself Up 'For Allah'

[Indofred]

Coyote brings up Thailand, where the Muslims are actually killing the Buddhists in the south because they want their own separate state, just like India had to carve out the land of Pakistan for the Muslims. [/url]

Oh dear. You forgot a bit of history there. The Thai Buddhists originally conquored those territories and subjegated or expelled the resident Muslim population. That sort of stuff remains in ethnic identities for a long time (Balkans being a good example).

India did not carve out Pakistan. The Brits did that - and very badly I might add (the partition of India was one of the world's great tragedies) - ignoring cultural identities in favor of religious identities thus forcing the eventual splitting off of Bangledesh.

About the same goes for the Muslim violence in the Philippines.
Muslims are blamed but it was Christian insurgency that started the conflict.
Christians were given land and money to settle in Moro regions and take over.

 

[Sally]

Coyote brings up Thailand, where the Muslims are actually killing the Buddhists in the south because they want their own separate state, just like India had to carve out the land of Pakistan for the Muslims. [/url]

Oh dear. You forgot a bit of history there. The Thai Buddhists originally conquored those territories and subjegated or expelled the resident Muslim population. That sort of stuff remains in ethnic identities for a long time (Balkans being a good example).

India did not carve out Pakistan. The Brits did that - and very badly I might add (the partition of India was one of the world's great tragedies) - ignoring cultural identities in favor of religious identities thus forcing the eventual splitting off of Bangledesh.

Why did the British even have to carve Pakistan out of India? Couldn't the Muslims live in a majority Hindu country, or do they feel they postively needed a country of their own? Even now, those Hindus and Christians living in Pakistan certainly don't have it easy. I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand? After all, the Muslims originated in the Saudi Peninsula so what were they doing in Thailand anyway? What is amusing actually is how one video featuring a Muslim cleric has segued into the Buddhists, while someone starts a thread whining about prisoners not have enough blankets when there are over a million refugees who have been displaced with many freezing in tents, and you had nothing to say about how ridiculous to worry about these "poor freezing prisoners" I guess posts like that get a pass, but a post with a video of a Muslim cleric saying it is OK to kill somehow has you having to tell us about the Buddhists who certainly are not running all over the place killing people.

 

[Sally]

Coyote brings up Thailand, where the Muslims are actually killing the Buddhists in the south because they want their own separate state, just like India had to carve out the land of Pakistan for the Muslims. [/url]

Oh dear. You forgot a bit of history there. The Thai Buddhists originally conquored those territories and subjegated or expelled the resident Muslim population. That sort of stuff remains in ethnic identities for a long time (Balkans being a good example).

India did not carve out Pakistan. The Brits did that - and very badly I might add (the partition of India was one of the world's great tragedies) - ignoring cultural identities in favor of religious identities thus forcing the eventual splitting off of Bangledesh.

About the same goes for the Muslim violence in the Philippines.
Muslims are blamed but it was Christian insurgency that started the conflict.
Christians were given land and money to settle in Moro regions and take over.

So tell us, Fried, what are these Muslims doing in the Philippines anyway? Now that they are there, isn't it possibly for them to live peacefully among the Philippine Catholics.

 

[Sunni Man]

So tell us, Fried, what are these Muslims doing in the Philippines anyway?

Actually, Silly-Sally, the muslims lived in the Philippines centuries before the Christian invasion of the islands. ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_Philippines

.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote brings up Thailand, where the Muslims are actually killing the Buddhists in the south because they want their own separate state, just like India had to carve out the land of Pakistan for the Muslims. [/url]

Oh dear. You forgot a bit of history there. The Thai Buddhists originally conquored those territories and subjegated or expelled the resident Muslim population. That sort of stuff remains in ethnic identities for a long time (Balkans being a good example).

India did not carve out Pakistan. The Brits did that - and very badly I might add (the partition of India was one of the world's great tragedies) - ignoring cultural identities in favor of religious identities thus forcing the eventual splitting off of Bangledesh.

Why did the British even have to carve Pakistan out of India? Couldn't the Muslims live in a majority Hindu country, or do they feel they postively needed a country of their own?

You really need to read the history of that region - if you did, you would realize it was not simply that "Muslims needed a country of their own" - it was a good bit more complicated than that: Partition of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even now, those Hindus and Christians living in Pakistan certainly don't have it easy.

Pakistan is a mess - for a variety of reasons - and it comprises some of the most tribal and religiously intolerant districts. The states that composed Pakistan were left largely undeveloped (in terms of infra-structure and civil service) by the British Raj, in contrast with the other parts of India. India was left with far better tools for governance.

I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand?

Who's "us"? Is there more than one voice?

Are you seriously telling me that Buddhists held the entire region before the advent of Islam? That's quite a claim to make. Historically, that area has been a mix of Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, animist and spirit worship, tiny enclaves of Jews and Christians. You seem to have the odd idea that only one group is legitimate (basically whatever group isn't Muslim). Pattani was primarily Hindu, but became a Muslim kingdom around the mid-1200's until conquored and annexed by Thailand.

You sure like to go to any lengths to defend Buddhists just so you can crap on Musllims.

After all, the Muslims originated in the Saudi Peninsula so what were they doing in Thailand anyway?

What were the Buddhists doing there? They didn't start there either.

What is amusing actually is how one video featuring a Muslim cleric has segued into the Buddhists, while someone starts a thread whining about prisoners not have enough blankets when there are over a million refugees who have been displaced with many freezing in tents, and you had nothing to say about how ridiculous to worry about these "poor freezing prisoners"

Once again I have no idea what you are talking about

or...wait a sec - are you suggesting I must read and respond to every Tom Dick and Harry thread here? If so Sally, you must have far more on your hands to sit in front of a monitor than I.

I guess posts like that get a pass, but a post with a video of a Muslim cleric saying it is OK to kill somehow has you having to tell us about the Buddhists who certainly are not running all over the place killing people.

Well Sally - if YOU feel threads like that are vital to the public interest (meaning anything that involves a violent Muslim or someone sympathetic to Palestinians) then by all means respond! Raise your voice! I heartily endorse your right to respond to any post you feel is meaningful to your worldview. Personally - I view this as a trip to the Dollar Store - a couple of gems, a few bargains, some fun games, and a lot of trash.

 

[Coyote]

So tell us, Fried, what are these Muslims doing in the Philippines anyway?

Actually, Silly-Sally, the muslims lived in the Philippines centuries before the Christian invasion of the islands. ....

Islam in the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

Don't confuse Salfly with the facts

 

[abu afak]

..
Why did the British even have to carve Pakistan out of India? Couldn't the Muslims live in a majority Hindu country, or do they feel they postively needed a country of their own? Even now, those Hindus and Christians living in Pakistan certainly don't have it easy. I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand? After all, the Muslims originated in the Saudi Peninsula so what were they doing in Thailand anyway? What is amusing actually is how one video featuring a Muslim cleric has segued into the Buddhists, while someone starts a thread whining about prisoners not have enough blankets when there are over a million refugees who have been displaced with many freezing in tents, and you had nothing to say about how ridiculous to worry about these "poor freezing prisoners" I guess posts like that get a pass, but a post with a video of a Muslim cleric saying it is OK to kill somehow has you having to tell us about the Buddhists who certainly are not running all over the place killing people.

You had it basically Right Sally despite some Misdirection attempted by Coyote.
Buddhism was their first: Before Islam even Existed/Showed up, Buddhism was widespread.

Buddhism in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early traditions

According to many historians.. around 228 BC Sohn Uttar Sthavira (one of the royal monks sent by Ashoka the Great) came to Suvarnabhumi (or Suvannabhumi) which some identify with Thailand along with other monks and sacred books.

During the 5th to 13th centuries, the Southeast Asian empires were influenced directly from India, so that these empires Essentially followed traditions of Mahāyāna Buddhism.
The Chinese pilgrim Yijing noted in his travels that in these areas, all major sects of Indian Buddhism flourished.[3]
The Srivijaya Empire to the south and the Khmer Empire to the north competed for influence, and their art expressed the rich Mahāyāna pantheon of bodhisattvas.
From the 9th to the 13th centuries, the Mahāyāna Buddhist and Hindu Khmer Empire dominated much of the Southeast Asian peninsula. Under the Khmer Empire, more than 900 temples were built in Cambodia and in neighboring Thailand.

After the decline of Buddhism in India, missions of monks from Sri Lanka gradually converted Burmese Buddhism to Theravāda, and in the next two centuries also brought Theravāda Buddhism to the areas of Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, where it supplanted previous forms of Buddhism.[4] Theravada Buddhism was made the state religion only with the establishment of the Thai kingdom of Sukhothai in the 13th century AD.[5]

 

[Coyote]

..
Why did the British even have to carve Pakistan out of India? Couldn't the Muslims live in a majority Hindu country, or do they feel they postively needed a country of their own? Even now, those Hindus and Christians living in Pakistan certainly don't have it easy. I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand? After all, the Muslims originated in the Saudi Peninsula so what were they doing in Thailand anyway? What is amusing actually is how one video featuring a Muslim cleric has segued into the Buddhists, while someone starts a thread whining about prisoners not have enough blankets when there are over a million refugees who have been displaced with many freezing in tents, and you had nothing to say about how ridiculous to worry about these "poor freezing prisoners" I guess posts like that get a pass, but a post with a video of a Muslim cleric saying it is OK to kill somehow has you having to tell us about the Buddhists who certainly are not running all over the place killing people.

You had it basically Right Sally despite some Misdirection attempted by Coyote.
Buddhism was their first: Before Islam even Existed/Showed up, Buddhism was widespread.

Buddhism in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early traditions

According to many historians.. around 228 BC Sohn Uttar Sthavira (one of the royal monks sent by Ashoka the Great) came to Suvarnabhumi (or Suvannabhumi) which some identify with Thailand along with other monks and sacred books.

During the 5th to 13th centuries, the Southeast Asian empires were influenced directly from India, so that these empires Essentially followed traditions of Mahāyāna Buddhism.
The Chinese pilgrim Yijing noted in his travels that in these areas, all major sects of Indian Buddhism flourished.[3]
The Srivijaya Empire to the south and the Khmer Empire to the north competed for influence, and their art expressed the rich Mahāyāna pantheon of bodhisattvas.
From the 9th to the 13th centuries, the Mahāyāna Buddhist and Hindu Khmer Empire dominated much of the Southeast Asian peninsula. Under the Khmer Empire, more than 900 temples were built in Cambodia and in neighboring Thailand.

After the decline of Buddhism in India, missions of monks from Sri Lanka gradually converted Burmese Buddhism to Theravāda, and in the next two centuries also brought Theravāda Buddhism to the areas of Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, where it supplanted previous forms of Buddhism.[4] Theravada Buddhism was made the state religion only with the establishment of the Thai kingdom of Sukhothai in the 13th century AD.[5]

What preceded the Buddhists?

 

[abu afak]

..
Why did the British even have to carve Pakistan out of India? Couldn't the Muslims live in a majority Hindu country, or do they feel they postively needed a country of their own? Even now, those Hindus and Christians living in Pakistan certainly don't have it easy. I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand? After all, the Muslims originated in the Saudi Peninsula so what were they doing in Thailand anyway? What is amusing actually is how one video featuring a Muslim cleric has segued into the Buddhists, while someone starts a thread whining about prisoners not have enough blankets when there are over a million refugees who have been displaced with many freezing in tents, and you had nothing to say about how ridiculous to worry about these "poor freezing prisoners" I guess posts like that get a pass, but a post with a video of a Muslim cleric saying it is OK to kill somehow has you having to tell us about the Buddhists who certainly are not running all over the place killing people.

You had it basically Right Sally despite some Misdirection attempted by Coyote.
Buddhism was their first: Before Islam even Existed/Showed up, Buddhism was indeed widespread.

Buddhism in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early traditions

According to many historians.. around 228 BC Sohn Uttar Sthavira (one of the royal monks sent by Ashoka the Great) came to Suvarnabhumi (or Suvannabhumi) which some identify with Thailand along with other monks and sacred books.

During the 5th to 13th centuries, the Southeast Asian empires were influenced directly from India, so that these empires Essentially followed traditions of Mahāyāna Buddhism.
The Chinese pilgrim Yijing noted in his travels that in these areas, all major sects of Indian Buddhism flourished.[3]
The Srivijaya Empire to the south and the Khmer Empire to the north competed for influence, and their art expressed the rich Mahāyāna pantheon of bodhisattvas.
From the 9th to the 13th centuries, the Mahāyāna Buddhist and Hindu Khmer Empire dominated much of the Southeast Asian peninsula. Under the Khmer Empire, more than 900 temples were built in Cambodia and in neighboring Thailand.

After the decline of Buddhism in India, missions of monks from Sri Lanka gradually converted Burmese Buddhism to Theravāda, and in the next two centuries also brought Theravāda Buddhism to the areas of Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia, where it supplanted previous forms of Buddhism.[4] Theravada Buddhism was made the state religion only with the establishment of the Thai kingdom of Sukhothai in the 13th century AD.[5]

What preceded the Buddhists?

NOT ISLAM.
You were Caught Lying my friend.
Again, Sally basically had it right.

I was always under the impression that Buddism was in existence way before Islam. Can you tell us if Buddhism came after the onset of Islam so that the Buddhists expelled the Muslims from Thailand?

Are you seriously telling me that Buddhists held the entire region before the advent of Islam? That's quite a claim to make. Historically, that area has been a mix of Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, animist and spirit worship, tiny enclaves of Jews and Christians. You seem to have the odd idea that only one group is legitimate (basically whatever group isn't Muslim). Pattani was primarily Hindu, but became a Muslim kingdom around the mid-1200's until conquored and annexed by Thailand.

You sure like to go to any lengths to defend Buddhists just so you can crap on Musllims.

You tried a Strawman never claimed by Sally, who Did have it basically Right.
In fact, "entire region" which she didn't claim, but you Strawmanned is probably true if one includes Buddhism and Hinduism, NOT Islam, which had little but minor trade settlements before the 12th C., while Buddhism WAS "widepread".

SO..
Having been OUTED in your Lie, you try a new Strawman/Deflection: "what was before that?"
It sure wasn't Non-existent Islam.
So Who cares!
The point has been made: you took a big fall.
`

 

[Peterf]

When people are driven by desperation they can easily resort desperate methods.

Even the usually peaceful Buddhist's of Japan during WWII perfected the art of the Kamikaze pilot tactic in a bid to save their nation. ...

Desperation drives a Muslim convert in London to go and hack someone to death?

Don't think so. He said he's doing it because he's a true Muslim and doing it for Allah.

Lets take him for his word.

You are absolute right Roudy. I'm afraid that the pols are so afraid of the dreaded 'white backlash' that they will say any stupid thing: PM Cameron, immediately after, Pvt Rigby's murder, "This had nothing to do with Islam" though, of course, it had everything to do with Islam.

Genocide bombers are approved of by most Imans and by a good proportion of Muslims even, as surveys show, those brought up and educated in England.

 

[Coyote]

NOT ISLAM.
You were Caught Lying my friend.
Again, Sally basically had it right.

Point granted - Buddhists preceded Islam in Asia.

SO..
Having been OUTED in your Lie, you try a new Strawman/Deflection: "what was before that?"
It sure wasn't Non-existent Islam.
So Who cares!
The point has been made: you took a big fall.
`

Touche

 

[Roudy]

The man is a dick.
Suicide is a mortal sin in Islam; you go to hell.

One of the most Bogus and common claims of Islamist apologists.

Suicide - from say depression - Is a Sin in Islam.
But 'MARTYRDOM', - Blowing yourself up and taking others with you for the cause - is the highest possible calling and the ONLY way to get an instant ticket to Heaven for You and Yours.
Which is why it's so common from Palestine to Iraq (daily), Pakistan, etc.

One of the great LIES for Allah, is claiming "suicide is forbidden" when, in fact, 'Martyrdom is glorious'.
`

Yeah...and Bill Clinton never had sex with Monica, which of course depends on the meaning of is, and suicide and martyr and jihad.

 

[Roudy]

Buddhists can be very violent.

Yeah I know, the whole civilized world is actively looking for those evil Buddhists. And up is down and white is black.

 

[irosie91]

Buddhists can be very violent.

Yeah I know, the whole civilized world is actively looking for those evil Buddhists. And up is down and white is black.

Someone should ALERT ------HOMELAND SECURITY immediately----an interesting
stat is ----there are about a many Buddhists in the USA as there are muslims------
thus-----there MUST BE LOTS OF BUDDHIST TERRORISM going on...........right?????

 

[aris2chat]

Now Hamas's cry is "First Israel, then the rest of the World"
A variation of "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people"

Hamas did not win the popular vote. the only reason hamas candidates won their seats is because too many Fatah candidates ran for the same seats and split the vote. There cannot be a an election without unity, or at least cooperation the tha PA. Fatah has to be allowed to run in gaza. Right now Fatah is not allowed to operate in Gaza.
If hamas ran their own election right now, they would get 99.9% of the vote because only hamas members could run. Much like syrian elections.

 

[irosie91]

Sally----for the record-----your thread title is not accurate -----there is
nothing "RADICAL" about support of suicide bombers in islam -----
the recognized authority in islamic law-----by the OVERWHELMING
MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS----of the entire world is the AL AZHAR UNIVERSITY
group of KORANIC SCHOLARS of Egypt-----that groups absolutely declines to
repudiate that HOLY SHAHID practice of suicide bombers for the glory of
allah. Do not be deceived by the ODD ----case -----here and there

 

[Coyote]

Now Hamas's cry is "First Israel, then the rest of the World"
A variation of "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people"

Hamas did not win the popular vote. the only reason hamas candidates won their seats is because too many Fatah candidates ran for the same seats and split the vote. There cannot be a an election without unity, or at least cooperation the tha PA. Fatah has to be allowed to run in gaza. Right now Fatah is not allowed to operate in Gaza.
If hamas ran their own election right now, they would get 99.9% of the vote because only hamas members could run. Much like syrian elections.

The other reason Hamas did so well, from what I've read - is corruption. Fatah was riddled with it and Hamas promised "change".

 

[irosie91]

Now Hamas's cry is "First Israel, then the rest of the World"
A variation of "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people"

Hamas did not win the popular vote. the only reason hamas candidates won their seats is because too many Fatah candidates ran for the same seats and split the vote. There cannot be a an election without unity, or at least cooperation the tha PA. Fatah has to be allowed to run in gaza. Right now Fatah is not allowed to operate in Gaza.
If hamas ran their own election right now, they would get 99.9% of the vote because only hamas members could run. Much like syrian elections.

The other reason Hamas did so well, from what I've read - is corruption. Fatah was riddled with it and Hamas promised "change".

oh ---ok what I heard---(just heard) is that HAMAS had the money for ----
HUMANITARIAN GOOD DEEDS ------------something like Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.
I have no link------is that fact ok???

 

[aris2chat]

Everyone had to give to Hamas. They did bring in services in the beginning, now nothing functions without Hamas getting paid.
They just put a new coat of paint on it.

Now Hamas's cry is "First Israel, then the rest of the World"
A variation of "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people"

Hamas did not win the popular vote. the only reason hamas candidates won their seats is because too many Fatah candidates ran for the same seats and split the vote. There cannot be a an election without unity, or at least cooperation the tha PA. Fatah has to be allowed to run in gaza. Right now Fatah is not allowed to operate in Gaza.
If hamas ran their own election right now, they would get 99.9% of the vote because only hamas members could run. Much like syrian elections.

The other reason Hamas did so well, from what I've read - is corruption. Fatah was riddled with it and Hamas promised "change".

oh ---ok what I heard---(just heard) is that HAMAS had the money for ----
HUMANITARIAN GOOD DEEDS ------------something like Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.
I have no link------is that fact ok???

 

[Coyote]

Everyone had to give to Hamas. They did bring in services in the beginning, now nothing functions without Hamas getting paid.
They just put a new coat of paint on it.

The other reason Hamas did so well, from what I've read - is corruption. Fatah was riddled with it and Hamas promised "change".

oh ---ok what I heard---(just heard) is that HAMAS had the money for ----
HUMANITARIAN GOOD DEEDS ------------something like Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.
I have no link------is that fact ok???

Exactly - they are just as corrupt and incompetent at actual governance - actually more so.