Question about Noah.
- Thread starter Taz
- Start date
Good for you. I see that you have abandoned your pointless "amino acid conspiracy theory". See, that is the danger you face when you're wholly ignorant of science and mindlessly cut and paste whatever nonsense appeals to your fundamentalist religious beliefs.Hol, See what I mean? You cut and paste and then call it pointless. You keep running around in the same angry circle.
Do you not get from your cutting and pasting that science has moved from your erroneous soup guess, to outer space as the new more educated guess? Because they found out that amino acids are programed, and chance can't program, so they had to come from somewhere else. Maybe aliens.
But as soon as they pick a new theory they run into the same wall. Regardless of where they come from, the question still exists. Who wrote their code?
I think you are out of your element () trying to explain what science can't explain, and fundie is your best shot. And me pointing that out is less than Christian, and I don't like that, so fundy away. If you make a valid point or ask a germane question, I'll respond. I'll ignore the personal attacks, as a coping mechanism, and not something that require a response.
In furtherance of your "amino acid conspiracy theory" (and because you fundies are worth a chuckle for comic relief), I have it on good authority that the below linked article is part of a vast conspiracy among those evilutionist scientists. It's all a fake.
The truth is that the jeebus was hurling boulders from Mt. Vesuvius and secretly planted the amino acids so as to play a cruel joke on you fundies.
Meteorite That Fell in 1969 Still Revealing Secrets of the Early Solar System - Scientific American
Fragments of a chemically primitive meteorite that landed near Murchison, Australia, in 1969 have long been known to harbor a variety of interesting compounds, including dozens of amino acids. But as analytic techniques become more sophisticated, the Murchison meteorite continues to reveal even more diversity and complexity in the early solar system, and new work by a team of European researchers is no exception.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Here Taz,
Evidence and Theories of a Great Flood
Hundreds of myths from around the world suggest there was a great flood -- possibly local or possibly global, depending on the story. Christians generally believe that this is Noah's flood, a global event brought on by God to cleanse the world of wickedness.
The scientific community doesn't wholly doubt the possibility of a great flood, but it has yet to answer the questions of where and when it might have happened.
There are two scientific theories in existence, one suggesting flooding around the area that is now the Black Sea and the other attributing devastating floods to a comet that struck the Earth. Let's first look at the more popular hypothesis: the flooding of the Black Sea, also known as Noah's Flood Hypothesis.
In the late 1990s, Columbia University geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman proposed that a great flood in the Middle East resulted from rising water levels at the end of the last Ice Age about 7,000 years ago. At that time, the Black Sea was a freshwater lake and the lands around it were farmlands. When the European glaciers melted, the Mediterranean Sea overflowed with a force 200 times greater than that of Niagara Falls, converting the Black Sea from fresh to saltwater and flooding the area [source: National Geographic].
National Geographic Society explorer Robert Ballard, inspired by Ryan and Pitman's hypothesis, has discovered supporting physical evidence, including an underwater river valley and ancient shoreline as well as Stone Age structures and tools beneath the Black Sea. His team has also unearthed fossils of now-extinct freshwater species dating back some 7,460 to 15,500 years.
While this theory is still being reviewed, Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, put forth his own theory about the great flood. He hypothesizes that more comets and meteors than we know have hit Earth throughout its history. He believes the seeds of great flood stories may have sprouted when a comet hit our planet about 5,000 years ago.
Masse's presumption is that a 3-mile (4.8-kilometer) wide comet crashed into the ocean off the coast of what is now Madagascar. The result? Worldwide chaos, including violent 600-foot (182.8-meter) high tsunamis and massive hurricanes spawned when superheated water vapor and aerosol particulates shot into jet streams. All of this terror was accompanied by a week of darkness caused by material expelled into the atmosphere.
Masse's theory derives from clues in cultural flood myths, including ancient petroglyphs, drawings and historical records, but it's the physical evidence he's after to make the case. Since Masse presented his idea in 2004, he's found support in the geological community.
A 600-foot high tsunami would surely leave behind a geological calling card -- and that it did. When waves are generated by such a significant impact, they create wedge-shaped configurations in the sand, known as chevrons, and when the Holocene Impact Working Group went looking for them with satellite imagery, they were able to locate such formations in Africa and Asia. Carbon dating fossils found in the chevrons will help determine if they fit within the proposed 5,000-year
Evidence and Theories of a Great Flood
Hundreds of myths from around the world suggest there was a great flood -- possibly local or possibly global, depending on the story. Christians generally believe that this is Noah's flood, a global event brought on by God to cleanse the world of wickedness.
The scientific community doesn't wholly doubt the possibility of a great flood, but it has yet to answer the questions of where and when it might have happened.
There are two scientific theories in existence, one suggesting flooding around the area that is now the Black Sea and the other attributing devastating floods to a comet that struck the Earth. Let's first look at the more popular hypothesis: the flooding of the Black Sea, also known as Noah's Flood Hypothesis.
In the late 1990s, Columbia University geologists William Ryan and Walter Pitman proposed that a great flood in the Middle East resulted from rising water levels at the end of the last Ice Age about 7,000 years ago. At that time, the Black Sea was a freshwater lake and the lands around it were farmlands. When the European glaciers melted, the Mediterranean Sea overflowed with a force 200 times greater than that of Niagara Falls, converting the Black Sea from fresh to saltwater and flooding the area [source: National Geographic].
National Geographic Society explorer Robert Ballard, inspired by Ryan and Pitman's hypothesis, has discovered supporting physical evidence, including an underwater river valley and ancient shoreline as well as Stone Age structures and tools beneath the Black Sea. His team has also unearthed fossils of now-extinct freshwater species dating back some 7,460 to 15,500 years.
While this theory is still being reviewed, Bruce Masse, an environmental archaeologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, put forth his own theory about the great flood. He hypothesizes that more comets and meteors than we know have hit Earth throughout its history. He believes the seeds of great flood stories may have sprouted when a comet hit our planet about 5,000 years ago.
Masse's presumption is that a 3-mile (4.8-kilometer) wide comet crashed into the ocean off the coast of what is now Madagascar. The result? Worldwide chaos, including violent 600-foot (182.8-meter) high tsunamis and massive hurricanes spawned when superheated water vapor and aerosol particulates shot into jet streams. All of this terror was accompanied by a week of darkness caused by material expelled into the atmosphere.
Masse's theory derives from clues in cultural flood myths, including ancient petroglyphs, drawings and historical records, but it's the physical evidence he's after to make the case. Since Masse presented his idea in 2004, he's found support in the geological community.
A 600-foot high tsunami would surely leave behind a geological calling card -- and that it did. When waves are generated by such a significant impact, they create wedge-shaped configurations in the sand, known as chevrons, and when the Holocene Impact Working Group went looking for them with satellite imagery, they were able to locate such formations in Africa and Asia. Carbon dating fossils found in the chevrons will help determine if they fit within the proposed 5,000-year
Problems with a Global Flood 2nd edition
So tell us about the dinosaurs on the Ark cruise to nowhere.
The Talk.Origins Archive Post of the Month May 2004
So tell us about Noah and his immediate family repopulating the planet in just a few thousand years.
Apparently, your gawds embrace the "incest is best" paradigm.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
So, Noah and his immediate had dominant and recessive genes magically implanted by your magical gawds?
How do you know that?
And why 2 straight couples can raise a child and that child will turn out gay or two gays can raise a child who turns out to be straight.
Science can't understand why we haven't bred the left handed gene out of our species but us lefties are very persistent.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
We have already covered the population, flood vs Non flood.
Here is how it breaks down:
What growth rate is needed to get six billion people since the Flood?
It is relatively easy to calculate the growth rate needed to get today’s population from Noah’s three sons and their wives, after the Flood. With the Flood at about 4,500 years ago, it needs less than 0.5% per year growth. That’s not very much.
Of course, population growth has not been constant. There is reasonably good evidence that growth has been slow at times—such as in the Middle Ages in Europe. However, data from the Bible shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the Flood. Shem had five sons, Ham had four, and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same number of daughters, then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation, Shem had 14 grandsons, Ham, 28 and Japheth, 23, or 130 children in total. That is an average of 8.1 per couple. These figures are consisent with God’s command to ‘be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth’
Let us take the average of all births in the first two post-Flood generations as 8.53 children per couple. The average age at which the first son was born in the seven post-Flood generations in Shem’s line ranged from 35 to 29 years, with an average of 31 years, so a generation time of 40 years is reasonable. Hence, just four generations after the Flood would see a total population of over 3,000 people (remembering that the longevity of people was such that Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, etc., were still alive at that time). This represents a population growth rate of 3.7% per year, or a doubling time of about 19 years.
If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection, this requires a population growth rate of only 0.75% since the Flood, or a doubling time of 92 years—much less than the documented population growth rate in the years following the Flood.
Australian Aborigines—cultural traditions connect to Noah
In addition to population figures, there is much other evidence against the supposed long ages of Aboriginal occupation of Australia—the observed rapid deterioration of supposedly ancient paintings, for example.
Furthermore, many Aboriginal tribes have stories, long predating their contact with Christian missionaries, of a global Flood, sometimes with startling similarities to the Bible’s account, but with sufficient differences to show that they were not recently incorporated into their folklore following contacts with missionaries. It is stretching credulity to suggest that these stories have been maintained by word-of-mouth for 40 to 60 thousand years, or that they were invented and just by chance have these incredible similarities to the Bible account.
The Aboriginal population and their stories are much more in line with their having been a nomadic/‘gypsy’ people who found themselves in Australia relatively recently—certainly after the biblical Flood.
A remarkable coincidence?
The Jews are descendants of Jacob (also called Israel). The number of Jews in the world in 1930, before the Nazi Holocaust, was estimated at 18 million. This represents a doubling in population, on average, every 156 years, or 0.44% growth per year since Jacob. Since the Flood, the world population has doubled every 155 years, or grown at an average of 0.45% per year. There is agreement between the growth rates for the two populations. Is this just a lucky coincidence?
Hardly. The figures agree because the real history of the world is recorded in the Bible
What if people had been around for one million years?
Evolutionists claim that mankind evolved from apes about a million years ago. If the population had grown at just 0.01% per year since then (doubling only every 7,000 years), there could be 1043 people today—that’s a number with 43 zeros after it. This number is so big that not even the Texans have a word for it! To try to put this number of people in context, say each individual is given ‘standing room only’ of about one square metre per person. However, the land surface area of the whole Earth is ‘only’ 1.5 x 1014 square metres. If every one of those square metres were made into a world just like this one, all these worlds put together would still ‘only’ have a surface area able to fit 1028 people in this way. This is only a tiny fraction of 1043 (1029 is 10 times as much as 1028, 1030 is 100 times, and so on). Those who adhere to the evolutionary story argue that disease, famine and war kept the numbers almost constant for most of this period, which means that mankind was on the brink of extinction for most of this supposed history.
Here is how it breaks down:
What growth rate is needed to get six billion people since the Flood?
It is relatively easy to calculate the growth rate needed to get today’s population from Noah’s three sons and their wives, after the Flood. With the Flood at about 4,500 years ago, it needs less than 0.5% per year growth. That’s not very much.
Of course, population growth has not been constant. There is reasonably good evidence that growth has been slow at times—such as in the Middle Ages in Europe. However, data from the Bible shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the Flood. Shem had five sons, Ham had four, and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same number of daughters, then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation, Shem had 14 grandsons, Ham, 28 and Japheth, 23, or 130 children in total. That is an average of 8.1 per couple. These figures are consisent with God’s command to ‘be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth’
Let us take the average of all births in the first two post-Flood generations as 8.53 children per couple. The average age at which the first son was born in the seven post-Flood generations in Shem’s line ranged from 35 to 29 years, with an average of 31 years, so a generation time of 40 years is reasonable. Hence, just four generations after the Flood would see a total population of over 3,000 people (remembering that the longevity of people was such that Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, etc., were still alive at that time). This represents a population growth rate of 3.7% per year, or a doubling time of about 19 years.
If there were 300 million people in the world at the time of Christ’s Resurrection, this requires a population growth rate of only 0.75% since the Flood, or a doubling time of 92 years—much less than the documented population growth rate in the years following the Flood.
Australian Aborigines—cultural traditions connect to Noah
In addition to population figures, there is much other evidence against the supposed long ages of Aboriginal occupation of Australia—the observed rapid deterioration of supposedly ancient paintings, for example.
Furthermore, many Aboriginal tribes have stories, long predating their contact with Christian missionaries, of a global Flood, sometimes with startling similarities to the Bible’s account, but with sufficient differences to show that they were not recently incorporated into their folklore following contacts with missionaries. It is stretching credulity to suggest that these stories have been maintained by word-of-mouth for 40 to 60 thousand years, or that they were invented and just by chance have these incredible similarities to the Bible account.
The Aboriginal population and their stories are much more in line with their having been a nomadic/‘gypsy’ people who found themselves in Australia relatively recently—certainly after the biblical Flood.
A remarkable coincidence?
The Jews are descendants of Jacob (also called Israel). The number of Jews in the world in 1930, before the Nazi Holocaust, was estimated at 18 million. This represents a doubling in population, on average, every 156 years, or 0.44% growth per year since Jacob. Since the Flood, the world population has doubled every 155 years, or grown at an average of 0.45% per year. There is agreement between the growth rates for the two populations. Is this just a lucky coincidence?
Hardly. The figures agree because the real history of the world is recorded in the Bible
What if people had been around for one million years?
Evolutionists claim that mankind evolved from apes about a million years ago. If the population had grown at just 0.01% per year since then (doubling only every 7,000 years), there could be 1043 people today—that’s a number with 43 zeros after it. This number is so big that not even the Texans have a word for it! To try to put this number of people in context, say each individual is given ‘standing room only’ of about one square metre per person. However, the land surface area of the whole Earth is ‘only’ 1.5 x 1014 square metres. If every one of those square metres were made into a world just like this one, all these worlds put together would still ‘only’ have a surface area able to fit 1028 people in this way. This is only a tiny fraction of 1043 (1029 is 10 times as much as 1028, 1030 is 100 times, and so on). Those who adhere to the evolutionary story argue that disease, famine and war kept the numbers almost constant for most of this period, which means that mankind was on the brink of extinction for most of this supposed history.
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The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
DNA. Gene research, and magically implanted by their parents.
It's obvious why you refuse to identify the source of your silliness: your fundie creation ministries.
We both know that your christian Madrassahs will further this nonsense which is why they don't publish in peer reviewed journals.
Here's another source that refutes creationist fantasies.
The whole silly Flood story - SkepticReport
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
References
Louis Pasteur (1822–1895), Creation 14(1):16–19).
Joseph Lister: father of modern surgery, Creation 14(2):48-51)
Morris, H.M., World population and Bible chronology, Creation Research Society Quarterly 3(3):7–10, 1966.
In the Days of Peleg. However, his naming could have been prophetic, like Methuselah, who died in the year of the Flood and whose name means ‘When he dies, it shall be sent’. If this is true, then Babel could have been some time after Peleg’s birth, but during his lifetime.
Sensational dinosaur blood report! Creation 19(4):42–3, 1997.
A better model of the Stone Age, Journal of Creation 2(1):88–102, 1986 and Part 2, Journal of Creation 3(1):73–95, 1988.
How long have Aborigines been in Australia? Creation 15(3):48–50,
Louis Pasteur (1822–1895), Creation 14(1):16–19).
Joseph Lister: father of modern surgery, Creation 14(2):48-51)
Morris, H.M., World population and Bible chronology, Creation Research Society Quarterly 3(3):7–10, 1966.
In the Days of Peleg. However, his naming could have been prophetic, like Methuselah, who died in the year of the Flood and whose name means ‘When he dies, it shall be sent’. If this is true, then Babel could have been some time after Peleg’s birth, but during his lifetime.
Sensational dinosaur blood report! Creation 19(4):42–3, 1997.
A better model of the Stone Age, Journal of Creation 2(1):88–102, 1986 and Part 2, Journal of Creation 3(1):73–95, 1988.
How long have Aborigines been in Australia? Creation 15(3):48–50,
Well of course. Your information comes from a fundamentalist creation ministry. You have a preconceived bias and you flaunt that by using one of the worst examples of bible thumping charlatans: Henry Morrs.
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
actually, we know your arguments were made up long after Jesus died on the cross, and are all hearsay......
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
PostmodernProph
....fully immersed....
gays, alcoholics, sickle cell anemia.....all sorts of genetic abnormalities.....
Ellipsis
Senior Member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 505
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It's not pertinent to anything going on in my life. Sure Christianity started out as a cult, and that changes my life how? My employer started out as a small business, is that also supposed to end my world?
Amazing that you assume that. Whatever happened, happened, the only difference to me is what I can get out of the story to apply in my life. I wasn't alive back then, so whatever happened back then is neat to know, but I'm only truly interested in what I can apply in my life today, things I can physically go and do. Rather or not the bible is bullshit doesn't help me keep my weight under control, get out of debt, etc, so I just don't care either way. I find parts of the bible helpful and I don't require you or anyone else to see the same things as helpful to you because, again, your life doesn't apply to mine.
I have no idea. Whoever converted, converted, and whoever didn't, didn't, either way I still have two double-shifts to work this weekend so it doesn't matter; it doesn't change anything.
I'm not trying to recruit you. Believe whatever you want.
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