Putting a Face on the Healthcare Debate

[rayboyusmc]

I don't agree with the current Senate version because it simply enriches the Insurance Gangsters, but we need something to help those who for no blame of their own have lost or could never afford health care.

We are the most powerful nation in the world with a health care that is 37 in the world. We are owned by the Insurance Gangsters and their little thugs like McConnell and Boehner. I really do hope there is an afterlife where these folks have to stand in front of their creator tell how good they were and how they as true Christians loved and helped the least of their brethren.

When friends find out Alice Manning and her children don't have health insurance, they are surprised.

After all, she is an actress who has entertained troops in Germany with the USO, toured the country in one-woman shows and appeared in television commercials. Her husband, Patrick Hubbard, is a high-tech entrepreneur-turned solar energy system salesman.

"People say, 'How can you not have health insurance?'" he said. "I say ... 'It's food or health insurance.'"

The Santa Monica family has little voice in the debate over health care reform, but they have a lot at stake. They are among the more than 46 million people who lack health insurance in the U.S. That number has soared over the last decade as the price of insurance rose, employers dropped health benefits and insurers shunned people with pre-existing conditions

400% raise in premiums since 2000. Please justify that, while 45,000 of your fellow Americans die every year because they can't access health care. Even if a person doesn't give a shit about others, they should be upset at the cost we the taxpayers are paying to cover these uninsured at ERs and other medical costs.

If the Current RNC was in charge at the revolution, we would still be British subjects.



Uninsured, a family on the edge -- chicagotribune.com

 

[rightwinger]

And yet they still manage to create one red herring after another

- death panels
- socialized medicine
- free healthcare for illegals
- abortion coverage
- killing grandma

Anything it takes to prevent Americans from affordable healthcare

 

[kyzr]

And yet they still manage to create one red herring after another

- death panels
- socialized medicine
- free healthcare for illegals
- abortion coverage
- killing grandma

Anything it takes to prevent Americans from affordable healthcare

What's a red herring? Those are all facts if the dems bring 30,000,000 more people into the US healthcare system, while reducing the number of doctors and hospitals.

Making doctors and hospitals do more with less is a sure way to have the system collapse. Otherwise the only alternative is to delay treatment like in other socialized medicine states, which costs lives.
Don't you believe doctors when they say they will leave medicine because they can't afford to stay???

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I don't agree with the current Senate version because it simply enriches the Insurance Gangsters, but we need something to help those who for no blame of their own have lost or could never afford health care.

We are the most powerful nation in the world with a health care that is 37 in the world. We are owned by the Insurance Gangsters and their little thugs like McConnell and Boehner. I really do hope there is an afterlife where these folks have to stand in front of their creator tell how good they were and how they as true Christians loved and helped the least of their brethren.

When friends find out Alice Manning and her children don't have health insurance, they are surprised.

After all, she is an actress who has entertained troops in Germany with the USO, toured the country in one-woman shows and appeared in television commercials. Her husband, Patrick Hubbard, is a high-tech entrepreneur-turned solar energy system salesman.

"People say, 'How can you not have health insurance?'" he said. "I say ... 'It's food or health insurance.'"

The Santa Monica family has little voice in the debate over health care reform, but they have a lot at stake. They are among the more than 46 million people who lack health insurance in the U.S. That number has soared over the last decade as the price of insurance rose, employers dropped health benefits and insurers shunned people with pre-existing conditions

400% raise in premiums since 2000. Please justify that, while 45,000 of your fellow Americans die every year because they can't access health care. Even if a person doesn't give a shit about others, they should be upset at the cost we the taxpayers are paying to cover these uninsured at ERs and other medical costs.

If the Current RNC was in charge at the revolution, we would still be British subjects.



Uninsured, a family on the edge -- chicagotribune.com

There's nothing more disgusting than a grown man, especially someone who poses to be a Marine whining like a little school girl

You former unit members should look you up and slap you to your senses.

One more thing, as a nation we're a little over 230 years old, France, China, India, England, Egypt have all been around for a multiple of the time we've been here, yet we're the Number One economy on the planet, so clearly we're doing something right.

Grow a sac.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yup

 

[rightwinger]

And yet they still manage to create one red herring after another

- death panels
- socialized medicine
- free healthcare for illegals
- abortion coverage
- killing grandma

Anything it takes to prevent Americans from affordable healthcare

What's a red herring? Those are all facts if the dems bring 30,000,000 more people into the US healthcare system, while reducing the number of doctors and hospitals.

Making doctors and hospitals do more with less is a sure way to have the system collapse. Otherwise the only alternative is to delay treatment like in other socialized medicine states, which costs lives.
Don't you believe doctors when they say they will leave medicine because they can't afford to stay???

Its a fact as Republicans prefer to let those 30 million people die rather than allow them to get affordable heathcare.

What ever happened to supply and demand? As the demand increases the market will adjust to meet the demand. Why would doctors leave medicine? Do doctors in Canada nad England leave because they have socialized medicine? If socialized medicine costs lives, why do they have a higher life expectancy than the US?

 

[The Rabbi]

And yet they still manage to create one red herring after another

- death panels
- socialized medicine
- free healthcare for illegals
- abortion coverage
- killing grandma

Anything it takes to prevent Americans from affordable healthcare

What's a red herring? Those are all facts if the dems bring 30,000,000 more people into the US healthcare system, while reducing the number of doctors and hospitals.

Making doctors and hospitals do more with less is a sure way to have the system collapse. Otherwise the only alternative is to delay treatment like in other socialized medicine states, which costs lives.
Don't you believe doctors when they say they will leave medicine because they can't afford to stay???

Its a fact as Republicans prefer to let those 30 million people die rather than allow them to get affordable heathcare.

What ever happened to supply and demand? As the demand increases the market will adjust to meet the demand. Why would doctors leave medicine? Do doctors in Canada nad England leave because they have socialized medicine? If socialized medicine costs lives, why do they have a higher life expectancy than the US?

DO you ever tire of lying? Or is it just second nature to you?
Republicans have floated a plan that would insure those same people at a fraction of the cost of the Democratic plan. Of course it got no hearing at all in the post partisan Obama years.
Supply and demand is still very operative. It posits that if there are artificial controls on price then equilibrium will become skewed. Set the price too low, which is what the Senate just voted to do, and you will have many fewer providers. Care will become rationed. Which is exactly what happens in England. Too few providers, long waiting lists, people consigned to die because there is too much demand and not enough supply.
This is the Democratic plan: We want you to die because there isn't enough medicine to go around.
The Democrats, the party of Fuck You.

 

[rightwinger]

What's a red herring? Those are all facts if the dems bring 30,000,000 more people into the US healthcare system, while reducing the number of doctors and hospitals.

Making doctors and hospitals do more with less is a sure way to have the system collapse. Otherwise the only alternative is to delay treatment like in other socialized medicine states, which costs lives.
Don't you believe doctors when they say they will leave medicine because they can't afford to stay???

Its a fact as Republicans prefer to let those 30 million people die rather than allow them to get affordable heathcare.

What ever happened to supply and demand? As the demand increases the market will adjust to meet the demand. Why would doctors leave medicine? Do doctors in Canada nad England leave because they have socialized medicine? If socialized medicine costs lives, why do they have a higher life expectancy than the US?

DO you ever tire of lying? Or is it just second nature to you?
Republicans have floated a plan that would insure those same people at a fraction of the cost of the Democratic plan. Of course it got no hearing at all in the post partisan Obama years.
Supply and demand is still very operative. It posits that if there are artificial controls on price then equilibrium will become skewed. Set the price too low, which is what the Senate just voted to do, and you will have many fewer providers. Care will become rationed. Which is exactly what happens in England. Too few providers, long waiting lists, people consigned to die because there is too much demand and not enough supply.
This is the Democratic plan: We want you to die because there isn't enough medicine to go around.
The Democrats, the party of Fuck You.

More wingnut myths about British healthcare. Why is it rated so much higher than ours? Why is the life expectancy higher in England? Why is it that nobody in England goes bankrupt or loses their home because they got sick?
If the healthcare providers are being driven out, why is it we don't see an influx of doctors from England, France and Canada? Our hospitals are filled with doctors from third world countries. Doctors from countries with national healthcare stay there

 

[The Rabbi]

British healthcare delivers substandard care in every category of illness. Survival of major illnesses is far lower than in the U.S. All of this is fact. You dont see doctors coming here because there are many fewer doctors to begin with. People just dont spend years of their lives to make middling salaries.
Everything I have written is factual and slams the Democratic bill in its face. People who fail to learn the lessons of other countries will fail to see the disaster that is coming.

 

[rightwinger]

British healthcare delivers substandard care in every category of illness. Survival of major illnesses is far lower than in the U.S. All of this is fact. You dont see doctors coming here because there are many fewer doctors to begin with. People just dont spend years of their lives to make middling salaries.
Everything I have written is factual and slams the Democratic bill in its face. People who fail to learn the lessons of other countries will fail to see the disaster that is coming.

And yet British healthcare (18th) is consistently considered to be overall superior to the US which ranks a pathetic 37th right above Slovinia

 

[Truthmatters]

It just blows me away how little facts mean to the right

 

[Neotrotsky]

British healthcare delivers substandard care in every category of illness. Survival of major illnesses is far lower than in the U.S. All of this is fact. You dont see doctors coming here because there are many fewer doctors to begin with. People just dont spend years of their lives to make middling salaries.
Everything I have written is factual and slams the Democratic bill in its face. People who fail to learn the lessons of other countries will fail to see the disaster that is coming.

the left loves to use the 37 ranking from the WHO (UN)- one problem they are garbage like the 40 thousand something they like to use

1) the rankings included a positive factor for having socialized medicine, so if two countries were equal in all ways except one was socialized and the other was not- the one with socialized medicine would get higher score

2) see: WSJ: In the Wrangle Over Health Care, a Low Rating for the U.S. System Keeps Emerging Despite Evident Shortcomings in Study


The underlying data about each nation generally weren't available. So WHO researchers calculated the relationship between those factors and other, available numbers, such as literacy rates and income inequality. Such measures, they argued, were linked closely to health in those countries where fuller health data were available. Even though there was no way to be sure that link held in other countries, they used these literacy and income data to estimate health performance.

Philip Musgrove, the editor-in-chief of the WHO report that accompanied the rankings, calls the figures that resulted from this step "so many made-up numbers," and the result a "nonsense ranking." Dr. Musgrove, an economist who is now deputy editor of the journal Health Affairs, says he was hired to edit the report's text but didn't fully understand the methodology until after the report was released. After he left the WHO, he wrote an article in 2003 for the medical journal Lancet criticizing the rankings as "meaningless."

3) Also from the article:
And yet many people apparently do. The 37th place ranking is often cited in today's overhaul debate, even though, in some ways, the U.S. actually ranked a lot higher. Specifically, it placed 15th overall, based on its performance in the five criteria. But for the most widely publicized form of its rankings, the WHO took the additional step of adjusting for national health expenditures per capita, to calculate each country's health-care bang for its bucks. Because the U.S. ranked first in spending, that adjustment pushed its ranking down to 37th. Dominica, Costa Rica and Morocco ranked 42nd, 45th and 94th before adjusting for spending levels, compared to the U.S.'s No. 15 ranking. After adjustment, all three countries ranked higher than the U.S.

4) Infant mortality- the US is the only country that counts miscarriages in the calculation.
All other countries don't count any child until has come to full birth


Like anything with for the left, it serves a purpose for them; but it can be thrown under the bus when it no longer serves that purpose. As an example, their own plan, based on the numbers they want to use, will doom 420,482 people to death since it does cover anyone for 4 years.

Guess what, they don't like to talk about that ..- go figure

 

[The Rabbi]

British healthcare delivers substandard care in every category of illness. Survival of major illnesses is far lower than in the U.S. All of this is fact. You dont see doctors coming here because there are many fewer doctors to begin with. People just dont spend years of their lives to make middling salaries.
Everything I have written is factual and slams the Democratic bill in its face. People who fail to learn the lessons of other countries will fail to see the disaster that is coming.

And yet British healthcare (18th) is consistently considered to be overall superior to the US which ranks a pathetic 37th right above Slovinia

See the comments by Neotrotsky below which pretty well blow your argument to smithereens. Now maybe you'll stick your head back in teh sand.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't agree with the current Senate version because it simply enriches the Insurance Gangsters, but we need something to help those who for no blame of their own have lost or could never afford health care.

We are the most powerful nation in the world with a health care that is 37 in the world. We are owned by the Insurance Gangsters and their little thugs like McConnell and Boehner. I really do hope there is an afterlife where these folks have to stand in front of their creator tell how good they were and how they as true Christians loved and helped the least of their brethren.

When friends find out Alice Manning and her children don't have health insurance, they are surprised.

After all, she is an actress who has entertained troops in Germany with the USO, toured the country in one-woman shows and appeared in television commercials. Her husband, Patrick Hubbard, is a high-tech entrepreneur-turned solar energy system salesman.

"People say, 'How can you not have health insurance?'" he said. "I say ... 'It's food or health insurance.'"

The Santa Monica family has little voice in the debate over health care reform, but they have a lot at stake. They are among the more than 46 million people who lack health insurance in the U.S. That number has soared over the last decade as the price of insurance rose, employers dropped health benefits and insurers shunned people with pre-existing conditions

400% raise in premiums since 2000. Please justify that, while 45,000 of your fellow Americans die every year because they can't access health care. Even if a person doesn't give a shit about others, they should be upset at the cost we the taxpayers are paying to cover these uninsured at ERs and other medical costs.

If the Current RNC was in charge at the revolution, we would still be British subjects.



Uninsured, a family on the edge -- chicagotribune.com

There's nothing more disgusting than a grown man, especially someone who poses to be a Marine whining like a little school girl

You former unit members should look you up and slap you to your senses.

One more thing, as a nation we're a little over 230 years old, France, China, India, England, Egypt have all been around for a multiple of the time we've been here, yet we're the Number One economy on the planet, so clearly we're doing something right.

Grow a sac.

The only reason America has the Number One economy is that there are no more lands across the sea, undefended against our technology and teaming with abundant resources.

Thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that the land that came to be known as 'America' has thus far survived the rape.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It just blows me away how little facts mean to the right

The extreme right is just like the extreme left. They LOVE facts, as long as they agree with them.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't agree with the current Senate version because it simply enriches the Insurance Gangsters, but we need something to help those who for no blame of their own have lost or could never afford health care.

We are the most powerful nation in the world with a health care that is 37 in the world. We are owned by the Insurance Gangsters and their little thugs like McConnell and Boehner. I really do hope there is an afterlife where these folks have to stand in front of their creator tell how good they were and how they as true Christians loved and helped the least of their brethren.



400% raise in premiums since 2000. Please justify that, while 45,000 of your fellow Americans die every year because they can't access health care. Even if a person doesn't give a shit about others, they should be upset at the cost we the taxpayers are paying to cover these uninsured at ERs and other medical costs.

If the Current RNC was in charge at the revolution, we would still be British subjects.



Uninsured, a family on the edge -- chicagotribune.com

There's nothing more disgusting than a grown man, especially someone who poses to be a Marine whining like a little school girl

You former unit members should look you up and slap you to your senses.

One more thing, as a nation we're a little over 230 years old, France, China, India, England, Egypt have all been around for a multiple of the time we've been here, yet we're the Number One economy on the planet, so clearly we're doing something right.

Grow a sac.

The only reason America has the Number One economy is that there are no more lands across the sea, undefended against our technology and teaming with abundant resources.

Thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that the land that came to be known as 'America' has thus far survived the rape.

Do you have the slightest fucking clue what you are even trying to say?

 

[AVG-JOE]

There's nothing more disgusting than a grown man, especially someone who poses to be a Marine whining like a little school girl

You former unit members should look you up and slap you to your senses.

One more thing, as a nation we're a little over 230 years old, France, China, India, England, Egypt have all been around for a multiple of the time we've been here, yet we're the Number One economy on the planet, so clearly we're doing something right.

Grow a sac.

The only reason America has the Number One economy is that there are no more lands across the sea, undefended against our technology and teaming with abundant resources.

Thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that the land that came to be known as 'America' has thus far survived the rape.

Do you have the slightest fucking clue what you are even trying to say?

Yes.

America owes its prowess to the rich land and resources, including the human resources, that were used to create 'America'.

 

[The Rabbi]

The only reason America has the Number One economy is that there are no more lands across the sea, undefended against our technology and teaming with abundant resources.

Thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that the land that came to be known as 'America' has thus far survived the rape.

Do you have the slightest fucking clue what you are even trying to say?

Yes.

America owes its prowess to the rich land and resources, including the human resources, that were used to create 'America'.

Russia has much more resources and many more people than America does and is an economic backwater.
Meanwhile Taiwan or Japan have very few natural resources and are world economic powers.
Pretty much blows your pitiful little theory all to hell I guess.

 

[Meister]

The only reason America has the Number One economy is that there are no more lands across the sea, undefended against our technology and teaming with abundant resources.

Thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that the land that came to be known as 'America' has thus far survived the rape.

Do you have the slightest fucking clue what you are even trying to say?

Yes.

America owes its prowess to the rich land and resources, including the human resources, that were used to create 'America'.

Our resources, natural and human are very much a plus. But, I think our form of government, and freedoms, including freedom of thought give credence to how successful we are.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Do you have the slightest fucking clue what you are even trying to say?

Yes.

America owes its prowess to the rich land and resources, including the human resources, that were used to create 'America'.

Russia has much more resources and many more people than America does and is an economic backwater.
Meanwhile Taiwan or Japan have very few natural resources and are world economic powers.
Pretty much blows your pitiful little theory all to hell I guess.

Not if you understand the history of the exploitation and harvest of resources here compared to Europe and Asia, and have a world-view of European (Western Civilization) involvement in that history.