Zone1 Purgatory makes perfect sense.

[ninja007]

Philippians 3:9​

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[ninja007]

Romans 8:30​

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.​

 

[ninja007]

John 3:16​

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[ninja007]

Our works reflect on rewards in heaven–not to get us to heaven. Jesus bore all our sins (1 Pet. 2:24). There are no sins left for purgatory to cleanse because it was all done by Jesus on the cross. This is why Jesus said, “It is finished!” (John 19:30).

 

[ninja007]

1 Cor. 3:15 does not teach purgatory as a place we go to in order to have some of our sins cleansed from us. It teaches that even though the person is justified by faith and cannot face damnation, his works will, however, be judged on “that day.” Those works which are good will survive the fires of judgment the way gold, silver, and precious stones can survive fire. But false works will be consumed the way fire consumes wood, hay, and straw. What is left has no bearing on whether or not we are saved. It has to do with rewards in heaven.

Paul goes on to say in 1 Cor. 4:5, “Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.”

 

[ninja007]

Question

What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?​

Answer

The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church?

On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine and his successors promoted progressively became a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Following are a few examples:

Most Roman Catholic beliefs and practices regarding Mary are completely absent from the Bible. Where did those beliefs come from? The Roman Catholic view of Mary has far more in common with the Isis mother-goddess religion of Egypt than it does with anything taught in the New Testament. Interestingly, the first hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

The Lord’s Supper being a consumption of the literal body and blood of Jesus is not taught in the Bible. The idea that bread and wine are miraculously transformed into the literal body and blood of Jesus (transubstantiation) is not biblical. However, several ancient pagan religions, including Mithraism, which was very popular in the Roman Empire, had some form of “theophagy” (the eating of one’s god) as a ritualistic practice.

Roman Catholicism has “saints” one can pray to in order to gain a particular blessing. For example, Saint Gianna Beretta Molla is the patron saint of fertility. Francis of Assisi is the patron saint of animals. There are multiple patron saints of healing and comfort. Nowhere is even a hint of this taught in Scripture. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these and many other categories. Many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, and the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for cities as well.

The idea that the Roman bishop is the vicar of Christ, the supreme leader of the Christian Church, is utterly foreign to the Word of God. The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, again, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. After the western half of the Roman Empire collapsed, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus.

Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and church tradition. Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the idolatrous people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church? | GotQuestions.org

What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church? When did the Catholic Church begin? Is the Catholic Church a mixture of true Christianity with other non-Christian religions?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[The Irish Ram]

Purgatory is Catholic dogma. It contradicts Paul who said, "Absent from the body is present with the Lord."
Believe Paul...

 

[zaangalewa]

salvation is a free gift,period.

Says a lazybone who doesn't like to do anything for this what is called "salvation" in the English speaking world? If you would call it "healing" instead of salvation - would you say in this case your own healing depends only on your doctor?

 

[zaangalewa]

Purgatory is Catholic dogma. It contradicts Paul who said, "Absent from the body is present with the Lord."
Believe Paul...

Where and when said Paul such a nonsense?

 

[zaangalewa]

Philippians 3:9​

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Romans 8:30​

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.​

John 3:16​

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Our works reflect on rewards in heaven–not to get us to heaven. Jesus bore all our sins (1 Pet. 2:24). There are no sins left for purgatory to cleanse because it was all done by Jesus on the cross. This is why Jesus said, “It is finished!” (John 19:30).

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it.

...

So what? Let me answer with this words: You learned to hate Catholics. And for this hate you learned to misuse the bible - a book (of the books) which we Catholics made to avoid misunderstandings.

And in reality here on planet Earth never any Catholic did do anything bad to you, isn't it? Perhaps except Barbara, who did not like to marry you because she did not like to live in your own personal hell.

How far is from the truth what I said here, allknowing gnome? And did you ever think about what ninja-assassinators or agent 007-killers have to do with the Christian religion?

 

[Mashmont]

Jesus perfects us.

He perfects us through suffering. AKA Purgatory.

 

[Mashmont]

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You do what all Protestants do when we discuss this; Imply that Catholics think Jesus' suffering on the cross and our works on earth are mutually exclusive. I'm saying you need both of them.

If you don't love others, which requires good works, you do not enter Heaven.

 

[Calypso Jones]

except that praying for the dead is not a biblical concept. The bible says...the dead know nothing. Perhaps this is partly to explain why Maccabees was left out of the bible.

 

[zaangalewa]

except that praying for the dead is not a biblical concept. The bible says...the dead know nothing. Perhaps this is partly to explain why Maccabees was left out of the bible.

When I was 12 years old my father died. I spoke a long time with him. The contacts became more seldom and one day I heard it is impossible to do so and others told me it's a sin to do so. But what's the real problem? I think today it was perhaps real and/or had been an illusion - ¿how to know? - but I am still convinced love is able to overbridge all thinkable times and all thinkable dimensions and to overbridge death is also not any problem for loving hearts. I will see how god really made it after the end of my time - but I am sure he made everything in the best of all possible ways - perhaps even a little better.

 

[Mashmont]

except that praying for the dead is not a biblical concept. The bible says...the dead know nothing. Perhaps this is partly to explain why Maccabees was left out of the bible.

Maccabees is in the Catholic Bible.

 

[ninja007]

You do what all Protestants do when we discuss this; Imply that Catholics think Jesus' suffering on the cross and our works on earth are mutually exclusive. I'm saying you need both of them.

If you don't love others, which requires good works, you do not enter Heaven.

incorrect; you do that because you are ALREADY saved; not in order to get saved- and yes loving others is a work. you cannot mix law or good works with grace.

 

[ninja007]

He perfects us through suffering. AKA Purgatory.

bible verse?

 

[ninja007]

Maccabees is in the Catholic Bible.

macabees isnt in the bible. it should not be.

 

[ninja007]

...

So what? Let me answer with this words: You learned to hate Catholics. And for this hate you learned to misuse the bible - a book (of the books) which we Catholics made to avoid misunderstandings.

And in reality here on planet Earth never any Catholic did do anything bad to you, isn't it? Perhaps except Barbara, who did not like to marry you because she did not like to live in your own personal hell.

How far is from the truth what I said here, allknowing gnome? And did you ever think about what ninja-assassinators or agent 007-killers have to do with the Christian religion?

i dont hate catholics, i love them enough to tell them the truth. and i grew up catholic.

 

[zaangalewa]

i dont hate catholics, i love them enough to tell them the truth. and i grew up catholic.

You did for sure not grew up as a Catholic. You use a very reduced way to interpret the bible which remembers me to the nonsense Kalif Osman had made when he had created the Quran.