Punishment for Abortion?

[Bfgrn]

Then educate him CG! Don't just beat him over the head about his motives. Here is a perfect opportunity for you to share your beliefs in a reasonable manner and get your point across whether you believe that the woman should be punished for abortion (and how severely) or not and your reasons for that.

The OP was a bit hyperbolic, but so what... educate him about what it really means to be pro-life at least in your view.

Immie

It's not my job to education the uneducatable, Immie. I leave them in a corner, sipping koolaid and high-5ing each other on their lack of education.

Then I have to ask. Why would you even bother to come here?

If you are not here to discuss the issues and educate, "the uneducatable", then why come here at all?

Surely, it is not for the stimulating conversation.

Immie

 

[California Girl]

You may have to ask. I have no need to answer. I can tell you, without fear of contradition, that I am not here for the stimulating conversation - I get that elsewhere.

Then why are you here???

Why, when I have already declined to answer that question, do you ask it again?

 

[Immanuel]

It's not my job to education the uneducatable, Immie. I leave them in a corner, sipping koolaid and high-5ing each other on their lack of education.

Then I have to ask. Why would you even bother to come here?

If you are not here to discuss the issues and educate, "the uneducatable", then why come here at all?

Surely, it is not for the stimulating conversation.

Immie

You may have to ask. I have no need to answer. I can tell you, without fear of contradition, that I am not here for the stimulating conversation - I get that elsewhere.

No, you need not answer. I for one am glad you do come here, but, this is a message board where we pretend to discuss the issues. If the question is what punishment do pro-lifers support for abortion and a hyperbolic example is given, then set the OP straight because there might be someone who is waivering on the fence about the issue who reads your post and says, "Geez, I thought all pro-lifers thought I was evil because I had an abortion when I was 15".

Maybe, just maybe, you can point out that pro-lifers do care for the mother in a crisis pregnancy as well as the baby.

If you want a punishment for aborrtion moral logic would then indicate that abortion is murder and any successful attempt to abort the pregnacy should be met in kind.

In other words, the punishment for abortion is Death. The mother must die.

But of course, this is trying to use "an eye for an eye" moral logic which does not work in the most basic sense.

Think about it. According to moral logic, The punishment for a person that attempts or commits suicide is Death--but is that not what the perp wanted?

Moral logic therefore is a form of absurditiy in standard logic. The only way to prevent abortion is not to set a punishment after the incident but to stop it before it occurs

Therefore, the logic method to "end abortion" is to confront the problems and issues facing the mother that is leaning towards that choice and bring them away from it.

If the mother still goes through with the abortion, there is nothing that we can really do to save the child. Thus methods that lead to prevention must be encouraged. I guess you would call this the Humanistic approach.

I have to disagree.

Not all murders are punishable by death. In fact, I understand that only the most heineous of murderers are tried with the possibility of death or even life in prison without the possibility of parole.

In fact, it seems that you can get longer in prison for cruelty to animals than you can for murder.

Immie

 

[California Girl]

It's not my job to education the uneducatable, Immie. I leave them in a corner, sipping koolaid and high-5ing each other on their lack of education.

Then I have to ask. Why would you even bother to come here?

If you are not here to discuss the issues and educate, "the uneducatable", then why come here at all?

Surely, it is not for the stimulating conversation.

Immie

So, that's twice you have posted silly pics in a 'debate', and you wonder why I maintain this isn't a debate.

I don't have to make you look stupid, Bf, you do it very adequately with absolutely no assistance from anyone.

 

[Bfgrn]

Then I have to ask. Why would you even bother to come here?

If you are not here to discuss the issues and educate, "the uneducatable", then why come here at all?

Surely, it is not for the stimulating conversation.

Immie

So, that's twice you have posted silly pics in a 'debate', and you wonder why I maintain this isn't a debate.

I don't have to make you look stupid, Bf, you do it very adequately with absolutely no assistance from anyone.

You keep forgetting, this isn't a debate...how could it be, you didn't bring your moderators, judges or awards ... just your pea for a brain...


"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."
President John F. Kennedy - Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, April 27, 1961

 

[California Girl]

So, that's twice you have posted silly pics in a 'debate', and you wonder why I maintain this isn't a debate.

I don't have to make you look stupid, Bf, you do it very adequately with absolutely no assistance from anyone.

You keep forgetting, this isn't a debate...how could it be, you didn't bring your moderators, judges or awards ... just your pea for a brain...


"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."
President John F. Kennedy - Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, April 27, 1961

Quoting Kennedy doesn't impress anyone, little man. You wouldn't know 'debate' if it bit your ass.

 

[Bfgrn]

So, that's twice you have posted silly pics in a 'debate', and you wonder why I maintain this isn't a debate.

I don't have to make you look stupid, Bf, you do it very adequately with absolutely no assistance from anyone.

You keep forgetting, this isn't a debate...how could it be, you didn't bring your moderators, judges or awards ... just your pea for a brain...


"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."
President John F. Kennedy - Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, April 27, 1961

Quoting Kennedy doesn't impress anyone, little man. You wouldn't know 'debate' if it bit your ass.

Kennedy impresses me... You COULDN'T debate if your ass depended on it...

 

[amrchaos]

Then I have to ask. Why would you even bother to come here?

If you are not here to discuss the issues and educate, "the uneducatable", then why come here at all?

Surely, it is not for the stimulating conversation.

Immie

You may have to ask. I have no need to answer. I can tell you, without fear of contradition, that I am not here for the stimulating conversation - I get that elsewhere.

No, you need not answer. I for one am glad you do come here, but, this is a message board where we pretend to discuss the issues. If the question is what punishment do pro-lifers support for abortion and a hyperbolic example is given, then set the OP straight because there might be someone who is waivering on the fence about the issue who reads your post and says, "Geez, I thought all pro-lifers thought I was evil because I had an abortion when I was 15".

Maybe, just maybe, you can point out that pro-lifers do care for the mother in a crisis pregnancy as well as the baby.

If you want a punishment for aborrtion moral logic would then indicate that abortion is murder and any successful attempt to abort the pregnacy should be met in kind.

In other words, the punishment for abortion is Death. The mother must die.

But of course, this is trying to use "an eye for an eye" moral logic which does not work in the most basic sense.

Think about it. According to moral logic, The punishment for a person that attempts or commits suicide is Death--but is that not what the perp wanted?

Moral logic therefore is a form of absurditiy in standard logic. The only way to prevent abortion is not to set a punishment after the incident but to stop it before it occurs

Therefore, the logic method to "end abortion" is to confront the problems and issues facing the mother that is leaning towards that choice and bring them away from it.

If the mother still goes through with the abortion, there is nothing that we can really do to save the child. Thus methods that lead to prevention must be encouraged. I guess you would call this the Humanistic approach.

I have to disagree.

Not all murders are punishable by death. In fact, I understand that only the most heineous of murderers are tried with the possibility of death or even life in prison without the possibility of parole.

In fact, it seems that you can get longer in prison for cruelty to animals than you can for murder.

Immie

Life in prison also tends to follow the "eye for an Eye" concept of Morality--it is not very successfull when applied to murder. It has the potential to fail in its application to abortion, it will fail for punishments agaisnt suicides. What I mean by fail is that it does not deter the "crime" significantly and in many cases can promote it in certain circumstances.

Prevention techniques are the most plausible solutions. Do not let a situation devolve to a point where abortion is considered necessary.

 

[Anguille]

Irrational people have no problem with fetuses being born alive and then thrown into the garbage..

And that's exactly what happens when young girls are denied access to abortion.

 

[Anguille]

I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..

Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??

As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??

Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??

I am curious..

Good question. I'm also wondering how would the 'pro-life' crowd deal with that. Let's see if we get some honest thought-out answers.

Don't hold your breath. It seems only eots is being logical and true to his beliefs that abortion is a crime that should be punished.

 

[Anguille]

I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..

Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??

As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??

Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??

I am curious..

I would have suggested you post this in the flame zone - because that it what it is. It is not a serious attempt to debate abortion. It is a rather pathetic attempt to enflame.

It's a legitimate question. If you can't address it because it makes you squirm, then maybe you have some re-evaluation of your opinions to do.

 

[Anguille]

1) Abortion will never be made illegal.

2) Making abortion illegal will not eliminate them.

3) This debate is not about punishment. It is about the value of a human life and whether or not to save or take that life.

4) This debate is about how to minimize the number of abortions and quite frankly, I do not believe that overturning Roe is the best way to do that now. If Roe had not been decided as it had, then things might be different, but Roe was decided and now almost 40 years later and 50 million+ lives lost we have to deal with it.

5) Minimizing abortion is going to take education and compassion among other things, but punishing the mother is not going to do that.

Immie

Well said!! Do you believe in punishing the abortion providers?

 

[California Girl]

You keep forgetting, this isn't a debate...how could it be, you didn't bring your moderators, judges or awards ... just your pea for a brain...


"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."
President John F. Kennedy - Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, April 27, 1961

Quoting Kennedy doesn't impress anyone, little man. You wouldn't know 'debate' if it bit your ass.

Kennedy impresses me... You COULDN'T debate if your ass depended on it...

I said quoting Kennedy doesn't impress anyone. If you can't even read a ******* seven word sentence without misunderstanding it, why on earth would anyone take anything you say seriously?

I debate in a real debate forum - this ain't it. My point - you make vast asssumptions about me based on your own idiotic bias. Fool.

 

[bodecea]

I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..

Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??

As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??

Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??

I am curious..

Good question. I'm also wondering how would the 'pro-life' crowd deal with that. Let's see if we get some honest thought-out answers.

I've tried to engage many on that issue. They almost always cut n' run.

 

[bodecea]

I would have suggested you post this in the flame zone - because that it what it is. It is not a serious attempt to debate abortion. It is a rather pathetic attempt to enflame.

No, it's a very legitimate question... you right wingers love to whine, complain and fearmonger, but you never consider the ramifications of your self centered beliefs. For your solutions to work people need to just evaporate...

IF abortion were illegal, would you arrest, charge and prosecute women that have an abortion?

IF abortion were illegal, would you be willing to pay for a woman's prenatal care if she agreed to carry the baby full term?

If severe medical complications left that same woman disabled, would you be willing to pay for her life long care?

If not, then STFU and mind your own business...


Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde

Shove it up your ass, Bf. I will post whatever I want, whereever I want, whenever I want - unless Gunny, or a Mod tells me different.

It is this kind of dumbass behavior that justifies my contention that there is no serious debate on this forum. Because you - and one or two others - are too ******* stupid to understand the difference between asking genuine questions and starting off from a stance of enflaming others.

That's why you're an idiot and I am not.

See? This is an example of what happens when you ask a anti-legalized abortion person that awkward question.

 

[bodecea]

Yea, opening with a statement about executing young girls for aborting babies is most definitely a way to start a real debate on abortion.

I find it sad that, instead of actually trying to start a REASONED debate on abortion - the OP chose instead to start with the same old left wing mantra instead of any real thought.

Then educate him CG! Don't just beat him over the head about his motives. Here is a perfect opportunity for you to share your beliefs in a reasonable manner and get your point across whether you believe that the woman should be punished for abortion (and how severely) or not and your reasons for that.

The OP was a bit hyperbolic, but so what... educate him about what it really means to be pro-life at least in your view.

Immie

It's not my job to education the uneducatable, Immie. I leave them in a corner, sipping koolaid and high-5ing each other on their lack of education.

Uh Huh....

 

[California Girl]

No, it's a very legitimate question... you right wingers love to whine, complain and fearmonger, but you never consider the ramifications of your self centered beliefs. For your solutions to work people need to just evaporate...

IF abortion were illegal, would you arrest, charge and prosecute women that have an abortion?

IF abortion were illegal, would you be willing to pay for a woman's prenatal care if she agreed to carry the baby full term?

If severe medical complications left that same woman disabled, would you be willing to pay for her life long care?

If not, then STFU and mind your own business...


Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde

Shove it up your ass, Bf. I will post whatever I want, whereever I want, whenever I want - unless Gunny, or a Mod tells me different.

It is this kind of dumbass behavior that justifies my contention that there is no serious debate on this forum. Because you - and one or two others - are too ******* stupid to understand the difference between asking genuine questions and starting off from a stance of enflaming others.

That's why you're an idiot and I am not.

See? This is an example of what happens when you ask a anti-legalized abortion person that awkward question.

So, the fact that I addressed the stupid questions doesn't mean squat to you. No surprise there - just another ******* whiner.

 

[Neser Boha]

No, it's a very legitimate question... you right wingers love to whine, complain and fearmonger, but you never consider the ramifications of your self centered beliefs. For your solutions to work people need to just evaporate...

IF abortion were illegal, would you arrest, charge and prosecute women that have an abortion?

IF abortion were illegal, would you be willing to pay for a woman's prenatal care if she agreed to carry the baby full term?

If severe medical complications left that same woman disabled, would you be willing to pay for her life long care?

If not, then STFU and mind your own business...


Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live; it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde

Shove it up your ass, Bf. I will post whatever I want, whereever I want, whenever I want - unless Gunny, or a Mod tells me different.

It is this kind of dumbass behavior that justifies my contention that there is no serious debate on this forum. Because you - and one or two others - are too ******* stupid to understand the difference between asking genuine questions and starting off from a stance of enflaming others.

That's why you're an idiot and I am not.

See? This is an example of what happens when you ask a anti-legalized abortion person that awkward question.

No, that is just a ***** that likes the smell of her own farts above anything else. I wish people stopped reacting to her self-indulgent bullshit and focused on the topic of this thread instead. A girl can dream...

 

[California Girl]

Shove it up your ass, Bf. I will post whatever I want, whereever I want, whenever I want - unless Gunny, or a Mod tells me different.

It is this kind of dumbass behavior that justifies my contention that there is no serious debate on this forum. Because you - and one or two others - are too ******* stupid to understand the difference between asking genuine questions and starting off from a stance of enflaming others.

That's why you're an idiot and I am not.

See? This is an example of what happens when you ask a anti-legalized abortion person that awkward question.

No, that is just a ***** that likes the smell of her own farts above anything else. I wish people stopped reacting to her self-indulgent bullshit and focused on the topic of this thread instead. A girl can dream...

Hot damn, you guys are a bunch of ******* whiners. I answered the ******* ridiculous question.... address what I said, nahhhhh, let's continue whining because we can't cope with a supposed right winger who doesn't fit in the box you have defined for me.

That makes you the stupid *****, and me a smart *****.

 

[Immanuel]

You may have to ask. I have no need to answer. I can tell you, without fear of contradition, that I am not here for the stimulating conversation - I get that elsewhere.

No, you need not answer. I for one am glad you do come here, but, this is a message board where we pretend to discuss the issues. If the question is what punishment do pro-lifers support for abortion and a hyperbolic example is given, then set the OP straight because there might be someone who is waivering on the fence about the issue who reads your post and says, "Geez, I thought all pro-lifers thought I was evil because I had an abortion when I was 15".

Maybe, just maybe, you can point out that pro-lifers do care for the mother in a crisis pregnancy as well as the baby.

If you want a punishment for aborrtion moral logic would then indicate that abortion is murder and any successful attempt to abort the pregnacy should be met in kind.

In other words, the punishment for abortion is Death. The mother must die.

But of course, this is trying to use "an eye for an eye" moral logic which does not work in the most basic sense.

Think about it. According to moral logic, The punishment for a person that attempts or commits suicide is Death--but is that not what the perp wanted?

Moral logic therefore is a form of absurditiy in standard logic. The only way to prevent abortion is not to set a punishment after the incident but to stop it before it occurs

Therefore, the logic method to "end abortion" is to confront the problems and issues facing the mother that is leaning towards that choice and bring them away from it.

If the mother still goes through with the abortion, there is nothing that we can really do to save the child. Thus methods that lead to prevention must be encouraged. I guess you would call this the Humanistic approach.

I have to disagree.

Not all murders are punishable by death. In fact, I understand that only the most heineous of murderers are tried with the possibility of death or even life in prison without the possibility of parole.

In fact, it seems that you can get longer in prison for cruelty to animals than you can for murder.

Immie

Life in prison also tends to follow the "eye for an Eye" concept of Morality--it is not very successfull when applied to murder. It has the potential to fail in its application to abortion, it will fail for punishments agaisnt suicides. What I mean by fail is that it does not deter the "crime" significantly and in many cases can promote it in certain circumstances.

Prevention techniques are the most plausible solutions. Do not let a situation devolve to a point where abortion is considered necessary.

I am not sure what you are getting at here.

My point was that many murders get off with what most of us would consider light sentences. Even when convicted a murderer will get off with little or no time. To be clear, I may be thinking of things you would consider, "negligent homicide" types of murder.

Would one consider abortion, first degree murder or something less "attrocious"?

Immie