Proof Of The Bible

[surada]

It means Adam's sin of disobeying God and eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Do you know you still have SINFUL NATURE? You've lied on this board before. There you go.

Actually original sin wasn't Christian doctrine until the 5th century.

Origin andHistory of the Doctrine of Original Sin

 

[surada]

There's a reason why Jews and Muslims don't believe in original sin.

 

[AsherN]

It means Adam's sin of disobeying God and eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Do you know you still have SINFUL NATURE? You've lied on this board before. There you go.

What makes you think he didn't just pass the test. God created Man with freewill. that was a test of freewill.

 

[surada]

What makes you think he didn't just pass the test. God created Man with freewill. that was a test of freewill.

Boy, are you a breath of fresh air.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually original sin wasn't Christian doctrine until the 5th century.

Are you saying that before that no one believed Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and the consequences of their choice affected no one but themselves?

Jews and Muslims don't believe Adam and Eve ever disobeyed God?

 

[AsherN]

Are you saying that before that no one believed Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and the consequences of their choice affected no one but themselves?

Jews and Muslims don't believe Adam and Eve ever disobeyed God?

Don't know about Muslims, but Jews discuss that story through the lens of whether it was disobedience or a test of freewill. And then did Adam pass the test or not. We certainly do not believe in original sin.

 

[surada]

Are you saying that before that no one believed Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and the consequences of their choice affected no one but themselves?

Jews and Muslims don't believe Adam and Eve ever disobeyed God?

Good question. I know Muslims don't think Eve was at fault. They also believe that God forgave Adam and Eve.

 

[Meriweather]

Don't know about Muslims, but Jews discuss that story through the lens of whether it was disobedience or a test of freewill. And then did Adam pass the test or not. We certainly do not believe in original sin.

Perhaps it is an Orthodox Jew belief? Do Jews still wait three years to eat fruit off a new tree? The thought behind this account was that God did intend for the fruit to be eaten, but Adam and Eve chose to jump the gun and partake early, an act of disobedience (i.e. sin)? Eating the fruit early also had an affect on all their descendants?

 

[Meriweather]

Good question. I know Muslims don't think Eve was at fault. They also believe that God forgave Adam and Eve.

Has anyone ever doubted they were forgiven?

 

[AsherN]

Perhaps it is an Orthodox Jew belief? Do Jews still wait three years to eat fruit off a new tree? The thought behind this account was that God did intend for the fruit to be eaten, but Adam and Eve chose to jump the gun and partake early, an act of disobedience (i.e. sin)? Eating the fruit early also had an affect on all their descendants?

It is normative Jewish belief. I don't know what orthodox do in Israel, I know there is a wait.
The account has nothing to do with waiting and is likely more of a test of freewill. God says "don't", what will they do with freewill.

 

[james bond]

What makes you think he didn't just pass the test. God created Man with freewill. that was a test of freewill.

It says so in the Bible.

To eat the forbidden fruit was the ONLY thing that Adam and Eve could have done to go AGAINST God. They could have swore, told dirty jokes, drank beer and whiskey. Maybe one could have physically abused the other or abused the animals. They could have had Cain and Abel and one still killed the other, but we would still be in paradise.

That said, the horrible incidents would not have happened because sin would not be in their nature. They and us would have a SINLESS NATURE and joyfully live with God on Earth forever in our physical bodies.

Adam and Eve had domain over heaven on Earth living with God and they did, but it was short-lived. Do I wish ill will FOREVER on Adam and Eve and not forgive them? It's TEMPTING as we don't know what happened to them.

 

[AsherN]

It says so in the Bible.

To eat the forbidden fruit was the ONLY thing that Adam and Eve could have done to go AGAINST God. They could have swore, told dirty jokes, drank beer and whiskey. Maybe one could have physically abused the other or abused the animals. They could have had Cain and Abel and one still killed the other, but we would still be in paradise.

That said, the horrible incidents would not have happened because sin would not be in their nature. They and us would have a SINLESS NATURE and joyfully live with God on Earth forever in our physical bodies.

Adam and Eve had domain over heaven on Earth living with God and they did, but it was short-lived. Do I wish ill will FOREVER on Adam and Eve and not forgive them? It's TEMPTING as we don't know what happened to them.

It still does not contradict that it was a test by God. Freewill either exists or it does not.

 

[hobelim]

Either you love your enemies or you don't. If we get to interpret it as we wish, it was meaningless.

As I said, how love is expressed necessarily differs depending on the situation. This same Jesus who said to love your enemies upbraided his enemies daily with righteous indignation......

How is ruthlessly exposing errors, publicly embarrassing the potentates of darkness, and teaching the only right way to interpret and comply with divine law that fulfills the promise of life and abundant blessings in the sanctuary of God on earth interpreting it as we wish whoever we is?

How is seeing what is there meaningless?

 

[hobelim]

So you don't think you could sin before then lol? It's one thing to to fall for or believe in a lie, but another to lie.

Before Adam and Eve took the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they were blind since their eyes were opened only after they disobeyed the command of God and ate it.

Jesus said, "If you were blind you would not be guilty of sin." John 9:41

This shows that people are not sinners until they learn the difference between good and evil and deliberately choose to defy the commands of God once they are made aware of his will.

You worship an unequalled three in one coequal god that became a man who was crucified so that your sins would be forgiven and teach others to do the same which amounts to murder.

Your beliefs about God do not correspond to any real living being ever in existence.

Are you blind or evil?

 

[james bond]

It still does not contradict that it was a test by God. Freewill either exists or it does not.

Huh. I never said anything about contradicting the test by God. No one is questioning whether we have free will or not. Why are you bugging me? What is your take on all this?

 

[james bond]

Before Adam and Eve took the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they were blind since their eyes were opened only after they disobeyed the command of God and ate it.

How could Adam and Eve be blind when the only thing they could do to GO AGAINST GOD was to eat the forbidden fruit? They didn't know the reason why they couldn't eat the fruit, but they knew it was forbidden by God. Thus, they DISOBEYED GOD!

I doubt any of us are blind to their original sin. If I was Adam, then I would know the one thing. A & E didn't have a sinful nature until afterward, so it was their choice. However, it turned out their choice was not theirs alone as we, as descendants, ended up paying for their sin, too. We lost God the Father from our universe and had to be saved by Jesus.

 

[hobelim]

How could Adam and Eve be blind when the only thing they could do to GO AGAINST GOD was to eat the forbidden fruit? I doubt any of us are blind to their original sin. If I was Adam, then I would know the one thing. A & E didn't have a sinful nature until afterward, so it was their choice.

Their eyes were opened only after they ate the fruit which implies that before they were just blind, just like Jesus ascending into Heaven implies that he first descended into hell and preached to the dead like you who have been beguiled by a talking serpent into defying the law of God against idolatry, the worship of false gods like a the trinity, a matzo made by human hands, or even a righteous Jewish man like Jesus.

However, it turned out their choice was not theirs alone as we, as descendants, ended up paying for their sin, too. We lost God the Father from our universe and had to be saved by Jesus.

Again, are you blind to the evil that you are perpetuating or have you made evil a deliberate choice?

Are you deceived or a deceiver?

 

[AsherN]

Huh. I never said anything about contradicting the test by God. No one is questioning whether we have free will or not. Why are you bugging me? What is your take on all this?

It was a test by God and we passed. God wanted us to know the difference between good and evil. The concept of "original sin" is repugnant.

 

[james bond]

It was a test by God and we passed. God wanted us to know the difference between good and evil. The concept of "original sin" is repugnant.

Huh. Where do you get such beliefs?

 

[hobelim]

Has anyone ever doubted they were forgiven?

Did you read the story? They died, were expelled from Eden, never to return to the realm of "living beings" and lived out the rest of their days in confusion, earning their bread through labor, the sweat of their brow, thinking, produced only thorns and thistles until they died the second death.

Sheesh! Does anyone doubt that they weren't? Cause and effect isn't about crime and punishment. Without bearing fruit worthy of repentance there is no forgiveness.