Proof Of The Bible

[BreezeWood]

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partly, they are beyond confused - there could have been a serpent before they choose the apple ...

that would be the stark reality of their decision -

to then slay the serpent, to triumph over evil their prescribed task for remission and self determination ... 2 million years latter victory is yet to pass - for humanity.

 

[hobelim]

That's really what I expected. There's always a great deal of inventing terms, making up definitions and re-writing the bibles when the religioner feels his sacred cows are about to be slaughtered.

You just don't know what you are talking about. There is a language of the prophets that is figurative and the subjects hidden and not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used . This is a historical fact that has been well known for centuries. Ask any person Jewish or Gentile who ever studied Maimonides.

Even the command of Jesus to "eat my flesh" was drawn from a preexisting traditional figurative language used by Isaiah, “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods."

There is nothing made up about it. It's been written down for millenia unchanged. You just have dismissed it out of hand because of the irrational claims of superstitious fundamentalists who, just like you, never bothered to learn Jewish teaching thoughts and beliefs about their own scriptures.

 

[Hollie]

You just don't know what you are talking about. There is a language of the prophets that is figurative and the subjects hidden and not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used . This is a historical fact that has been well known for centuries. Ask any person Jewish or Gentile who ever studied Maimonides.

Even the command of Jesus to "eat my flesh" was drawn from a preexisting traditional figurative language used by Isaiah, “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods."

There is nothing made up about it. It's been written down for millenia unchanged. You just have dismissed it out of hand because of the irrational claims of superstitious fundamentalists who, just like you, never bothered to learn Jewish teaching thoughts and beliefs about their own scriptures.

You just can’t help yourself. I suspect you find these unsourced, invented translations on various websites and cut and paste them here, expecting others to accept them as true.

This is all pretty typical. When the religionist is confronted with outrageous stories that simply cannot be reconciled with contingent history or with translations that conflict, they just invent new ones.

 

[Meriweather]

When the religionist is confronted with outrageous stories

Why do you make the stories outrageous?

 

[hobelim]

This is all pretty typical. When the religionist is confronted with outrageous stories that simply cannot be reconciled with contingent history or with translations that conflict, they just invent new ones.

Let me shed some light on your ignorance.

When Jesus appeared to his disciples after the crucifiction, popping in and out of locked rooms, eating fish, ascending into heaven, Thomas poking his mortal wounds etc. they were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

In the same way Ezekiel being carried from Babylon to Jerusalem by an angel and digging through the wall of the temple, made of solid stone thirteen feet thick, with his bare hands to peek inside and see the evil being done it was an eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream.

Now these are major conflicts with reality that were never explained, just like a talking snake, because the intelligent reader, even an 8 year old child of tent dwelling nomads, already knew that only people could talk and people can't fly except in dreams just like any 8 year old child today.

It was discovering the hidden teaching that mattered to the intelligent reader, the moral of the story, the hard learned lessons of the past, not historical accuracy or scientific facts.

You read the same stories and find conflicts with reality as a reason to reject it all as nonsense which makes you seem not so intelligent, as foolish as someone rejecting the story of the three pigs as complete bullshit because every scientist knows that pigs can't talk or build houses. Or as unbelievably dumb as rejecting the story of the boy who cried wolf as complete bullshit because there is no archeological evidence that the town where the boy lived ever existed.

Well known universal literary teaching techniques understood by children stump you. Damn.

Now if you want to embarrass yourself further you can continue with your obstinate stupidity attempting to justify your vapid 'religionist' lol bigotry or you can learn something. Either way I will be more than happy to deal with whichever way you choose to respond. So, by all means, carry on.

It's all on you sweetheart.

 

[Hollie]

Why do you make the stories outrageous?

I didn't make the stories.

 

[Hollie]

Let me shed some light on your ignorance.

When Jesus appeared to his disciples after the crucifiction, popping in and out of locked rooms, eating fish, ascending into heaven, Thomas poking his mortal wounds etc. they were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams.

In the same way Ezekiel being carried from Babylon to Jerusalem by an angel and digging through the wall of the temple, made of solid stone thirteen feet thick, with his bare hands to peek inside and see the evil being done it was an eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream.

Now these are major conflicts with reality that were never explained, just like a talking snake, because the intelligent reader, even an 8 year old child of tent dwelling nomads, already knew that only people could talk and people can't fly except in dreams just like any 8 year old child today.

It was discovering the hidden teaching that mattered to the intelligent reader, the moral of the story, the hard learned lessons of the past, not historical accuracy or scientific facts.

You read the same stories and find conflicts with reality as a reason to reject it all as nonsense which makes you seem not so intelligent, as foolish as someone rejecting the story of the three pigs as complete bullshit because every scientist knows that pigs can't talk or build houses. Or as unbelievably dumb as rejecting the story of the boy who cried wolf as complete bullshit because there is no archeological evidence that the town where the boy lived ever existed.

Well known universal literary teaching techniques understood by children stump you. Damn.

Now if you want to embarrass yourself further you can continue with your obstinate stupidity attempting to justify your vapid 'religionist' lol bigotry or you can learn something. Either way I will be more than happy to deal with whichever way you choose to respond. So, by all means, carry on.

It's all on you sweetheart.

I can see you're angry and emotive but your retelling of unverified stories doesn't make those stories credible. The myth of someone ascending into heaven may play well with children at Sunday school but you're not with that audience.

Your Ezekiel story is cute but why would you expect grownups to accept such nonsense?

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't make the stories.

Yes, you did. Instead of reading the stories as the original author intended, you read and proclaim something else entirely. You have your own story.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, you did. Instead of reading the stories as the original author intended, you read and proclaim something else entirely. You have your own story.

That's quite a frantic claim and of course, you provided nothing to support that claim.

 

[surada]

S

That's quite a frantic claim and of course, you provided nothing to support that claim.

. Some of the stories are pure fiction written to teach a lesson.. like the book of Jonah.

 

[Meriweather]

That's quite a frantic claim and of course, you provided nothing to support that claim.

Can't even tell the difference between matter-of-fact and frantic? Anyone of your recent posts support what is simply a peaceful observation.

 

[Hollie]

Can't even tell the difference between matter-of-fact and frantic? Anyone of your recent posts support what is simply a peaceful observation.

I didn't anticipate you would be able to support your statement.

 

[Hollie]

S. Some of the stories are pure fiction written to teach a lesson.. like the book of Jonah.

Probably, yes, considering a multitude of largely unknown authors. But that leads us into that Cul de Sac where the fundamentalists insisting on literal interpretation vs. those who insist that they, and they alone, hold a figurative interpretation that supercedes all others.

I think we need to acknowledge that Arks sailing the seas, men living for 900 years, animal sacrifice, human sacrifice etc., warps the concept of reality. The gods might have taken the time to edit the books written about them but chose not to. They might have taken the time to require the reader to understand allegory vs. literal rendering of the tales but they chose not to.

What we're left with are outrageous tales and fables written by fearful and superstitious people during a period in time when life was harsh and the ebb and flow of life was dictated by events and forces little understood at the time so various gods and demons, most of which were passed down from earlier times, were the causes of existence

 

[surada]

Probably, yes, considering a multitude of largely unknown authors. But that leads us into that Cul de Sac where the fundamentalists insisting on literal interpretation vs. those who insist that they, and they alone, hold a figurative interpretation that supercedes all others.

I think we need to acknowledge that Arks sailing the seas, men living for 900 years, animal sacrifice, human sacrifice etc., warps the concept of reality. The gods might have taken the time to edit the books written about them but chose not to. They might have taken the time to require the reader to understand allegory vs. literal rendering of the tales but they chose not to.

What we're left with are outrageous tales and fables written by fearful and superstitious people during a period in time when life was harsh and the ebb and flow of life was dictated by events and forces little understood at the time so various gods and demons, most of which were passed down from earlier times, were the causes of existence

Some books like the book of Daniel is a history of what happened. It explains the reign of Antiochus IV and the Maccabean revolt.

 

[Meriweather]

I didn't anticipate you would be able to support your statement.

Not with you, anyway. I have had time to read what you have written, but not enough time to enter into the discussion. Sorry.

 

[Hollie]

Not with you, anyway. I have had time to read what you have written, but not enough time to enter into the discussion. Sorry.

Good strategy. ''You're entirely wrong but I'm not able to explain why".

 

[Hollie]

Some books like the book of Daniel is a history of what happened. It explains the reign of Antiochus IV and the Maccabean revolt.

That may be. With an amalgam of authors contributing over the course of many decades, I would expect the bible to present just what we see; a somewhat disjointed collection of tales and fables so the book itself ranges from fact to fiction, from literalism to metaphor and humans are then asked to pick and choose which aspects are literal and which are not. Ultimately, we are required to make rational assessments, It boils down to facts: Either these things happened, or they didn't. Either the message is a true one, or it's a false one.

 

[hobelim]

I can see you're angry and emotive but your retelling of unverified stories doesn't make those stories credible. The myth of someone ascending into heaven may play well with children at Sunday school but you're not with that audience.

Your Ezekiel story is cute but why would you expect grownups to accept such nonsense?

Angry and emotive? lol... Don't be silly. I am not angry about anything, you are just embarrassed.

And what nonsense? That the authors never intended for the stories to be taken literally by the intelligent? That the authors never saw a need to specify that certain stories were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams because anyone with a second grade education, even the least intelligent person out there, is already well acquainted with reality ??

That fantastical stories that contradict reality and cannot be verified by science or archeology still covey truth about reality? Did you never take a course in literature or creative writing?

Did you sleep through kindergarten, first, and second grade? What was the cause of your demise?

 

[Woodznutz]

That may be. With an amalgam of authors contributing over the course of many decades, I would expect the bible to present just what we see; a somewhat disjointed collection of tales and fables so the book itself ranges from fact to fiction, from literalism to metaphor and humans are then asked to pick and choose which aspects are literal and which are not. Ultimately, we are required to make rational assessments, It boils down to facts: Either these things happened, or they didn't. Either the message is a true one, or it's a false one.

It boils down to actions in response to what you've read. God says, choose life. Sadly, most have chosen death.

 

[Hollie]

What nonsense? That the authors never saw a need to specify that certain stories were eyewitness accounts of what was seen and heard in dreams because anyone with a second grade education, even the least intelligent person out there, is already well acquainted with reality ??

That fantastical stories that contradict reality and cannot be verified by science or archeology still covey truth about reality?

Did you sleep through kindergarten, first, and second grade? What was the cause of your demise?

I'm impressed that you know with certainty what a collection of unknown authors intended. 100% certainty with 0% facts is quite impressive.

Will a part of your religious anger include fashioning dolls into images of people and then plunging large needles into them?