Presentism: do the past and the future exist?

[zaangalewa]

I once met a man that said he was a time traveler.

This idea of time-travel has titanic problems. To our presence in present are showed windows of all pasts of the universe - but no windows to the future. In case we are really "riding on a raszor blade" between past and future in the present and the scientific paradigma is really true that energy is not able to be created and/or to be destroyed (but only a transformed) - then I do not see any way how the energy of the mass of a body is able to be destroyed in universe "razor blade X" and created in universe "razor blade Y" so a time travel could be possible.

 

[Care4all]

Well, the argument would be that the past only exists as a memory, or electrical impulses in the brain, but what’s gone is gone and your future doesn’t exist yet. That’s the argument.

Not saying you can’t plan for the future, but, some would say that the actual future doesn’t exist, only the very moment you are experiencing right now. Some do believe that the future exists, however.

What is Science saying on this???

 

[Dekster]

And how do you explain that you are able to drink milk or that our planet moves around the sun?



From what material do you make your tool "time" and how and why did you make this tool?

You make the tool of time out of glass and sand, or metal parts that go tic toc, whichever you prefer. I am able to drink milk due to viscosity and gravity and our planet moves around the sun due to gravity and momentum.

in a couple hundred million years your day will be 25 hours because the moon is moving further away and that is how humans calculate a big part of its "time". They'll still be able to drink milk and the planet will still orbit the sun, but the Days of Our Lives will need a bigger hourglass in its opening credits.

 

[zaangalewa]

You make the tool of time out of glass and sand, or metal parts that go tic toc, whichever you prefer. I am able to drink milk due to viscosity and gravity and our planet moves around the sun due to gravity and momentum.

Is this your answer to the problem that you think time is only a psychological reality? What did I do not understand?

in a couple hundred million years your day will be 25 hours because the moon is moving further away and that is how humans calculate a big part of its "time". They'll still be able to drink milk and the planet will still orbit the sun, but the Days of Our Lives will need a bigger hourglass in its opening credits.

Okay? ... Why feel US-Americans always to be attacked when someone else says something? ... Hmmm ... What do you understand when you say "time is a pure human construct"? Your examples here show that t4ime is not a pure human construct. In 25 million years you will not drink milk - but it still will be possible to drink milk - independent from a really existing drinker of milk or the real existence of milk, isn't it?



Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ·
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν.
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.

Solange du lebst, scheine.
Traure über nichts.
Vom kurzer Dauer ist das Leben.
Das Ende bringt die Zeit von selbst.

 

[Dekster]

Is this your answer to the problem that you think time is only a psychological reality? What did I do not understand?



Okay? ... Why feel US-Americans always to be attacked when someone else says something? What dio you understand when you say "time is a pure human construct"? Your examples here show that time is not a pure human construct.

Perhaps they don't show it to you because you don't want to admit that it is a human construct. We do not operate on a universal time clock or calendar even on this planet as different people prefer to mark time differently. Being a human construct, time is flexible like that.

 

[zaangalewa]

Perhaps they don't show it to you because you don't want to admit that it is a human construct.

Sorry - but what do you think what are thoughts? Laws for nature?

We do not operate on a universal time clock or calendar even on this planet as different people prefer to mark time differently.

Our planet turns around that's why the sun shines on different places. It exists not any real reason to make different time zones except on psychological reasons. Concrete example: At 12:00 o'clock MET is everywhere on our planet the same time - only the names for this time are different because morning is on the other side of evening.

Being a human construct, time is flexible like that.

I fear if you like to stretch time in a significant way then you and all life on our planet will not survive the black hole which you need to stretch 1 second to 2 seconds for an alien who visits Alpha-Centaury.

 

[Blaster]

Five eerie pictures that 'prove time travel exists' leaving experts baffled

Claims of time travel seem to be getting more and more frequent as conspiracy fans collect their "evidence" that movement between certain points in time is very possible

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Kilroy2]

But you not may get a second look - as you are doing in a book or a film or a song for example. What you did not notice is lost.

Time gives not many chances. "Do it, now!" she says. "But I do what I think" you answer "My spirit, my intellect, my rationality is timeless." ... Indeed a new interesting thought for me. ... "How to paralyze time?" ... "By parallelization"? ... Time as a serial flow forces attentiveness and forces us to think in (alternating, parallel) possibilities - and forces us to believe, forces us to do the right things in which we are only able to believe with plausibility. Andn if we are wrong then we are lost.

Even if there is no do over as it is the past, it is a lesson learned. The lesson can be told to others. It also can be ignored or forgotten. Still history does repeat itself with new or the same players.

The issue is do you go with the flow or create your own flow. If you are lost then your in trouble. You have lost control. Then you are the leaf floating down that river.

Still its best to be prepared and be in a boat with a paddle floating down that river.

Then you spot the waterfall up ahead and the realization is that someone is an idiot.

 

[zaangalewa]

Even if there is no do over as it is the past, it is a lesson learned. The lesson can be told to others. It also can be ignored or forgotten. Still history does repeat itself with new or the same players.

History cannot be blamed - for nothing. Panta rei. Nothing is two times the same. Our intentional ignorance is the problem. Currently all mankind seems to be on a way to the 19th, 18th or 17th century - but not on the way in the 21st century to the 22nd century.

The issue is do you go with the flow or create your own flow.

No one is able to create only a second. Time is a gift of god. And how the old Irish said - frustrated sometimes from history but nevertheless true: "When god created time he made a lot". A whole universe full of time.

If you are lost then your in trouble.

First you are in trouble - then you are lost or you will win.

You have lost control.

About what?

Then you are the leaf floating down that river.

I never liked to be anything else. It's nice to feel all the water around. To live and to die is the same.

Still its best to be prepared and be in a boat with a paddle floating down that river.

Sports is also nice. But it exists a problem in your view to the world: You are not able to be outside of the river time.

Then you spot the waterfall up ahead and the realization is that someone is an idiot.

Who thinks not to be an idiot is an idiot. The problem is only on what level of idiocy to be an idiot.

 

[ThisIsMe]

At first blush one would think you need to sober up.

But let's go with this as a reasonable question from a reasonable person.

1. If there is no past, explain memory.
2. If there is no future, explain why anything matters.

Memories would be a present moment representation of a past event that no longer exists. The idea behind Presentism is just that the moment in time you are experiencing is all that there is, once a moment passes, it’s gone from existence, the next moment ahead of you has t been created yet, you only live from moment to moment…something like that.

as to question 2, everything matters because while the future hasn’t been written, you plan for things you hope will happen, but until they happen…they are not yet in existence.

The idea that a your future already exists is kind of a perplexing one. If it were set already, then it’s both scary and beautiful at the same time. Scary in that there’s nothing you can do to change it and you are just on a ride that has is headed to a determined end, but also beautiful in that every mistake you’ve ever made was one that you could not have prevented, because it was pre determined that you would do it (this actually gets more into biblical predestination, but it kinda ties into Presentism).

Also, if the future already exists, then wouldn’t it mean that it already happened, actually making it your past that you haven’t experienced yet? There are those who believe the past, present, and future exist simultaneously.

At first blush one would think you need to sober up.

I don’t really drink but, this is just one of of those topics that interests me. Not saying I believe it, because i don’t know, but it is one that has an interesting theory behind it, just from a purely thought experiment point of view.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Sounds like the Stephen king short story The Langoliers, where little monster things eat the past, always just behind the present

Heard about it but haven’t seen it. Might check it out.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I once met a man that said he was a time traveler.

Did he give you the winning lottery numbers? If not…what’s the point?

 

[Blaster]

Did he give you the winning lottery numbers? If not…what’s the point?

He told me he would work for food.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What is Science saying on this???

Well, it’s more of a philosophical question. Nobody can actually prove the past or future “currently” exists. The idea that everything that exists…you, the car you drive, the food you eat, everything, no longer exists in the past, and do not exist in the future. Everything about you and the world around you only exist in the very moment, the very split second you are experiencing right now. In other words, the car you drive doesn’t exist yesterday, and it doesn’t exist tomorrow either, every moment you experience is created, lived, and deleted in a fraction of a nanosecond. That’s something that can’t be scientifically measured.

I understand the concept is fringe, but that’s what makes it so interesting

 

[ThisIsMe]

He told me he would work for food.

View attachment 847325

That’s sad, being a time traveler…you’d think he’d be able to improve his situation…

 

[Foxfyre]

Memories would be a present moment representation of a past event that no longer exists. The idea behind Presentism is just that the moment in time you are experiencing is all that there is, once a moment passes, it’s gone from existence, the next moment ahead of you has t been created yet, you only live from moment to moment…something like that.

as to question 2, everything matters because while the future hasn’t been written, you plan for things you hope will happen, but until they happen…they are not yet in existence.

The idea that a your future already exists is kind of a perplexing one. If it were set already, then it’s both scary and beautiful at the same time. Scary in that there’s nothing you can do to change it and you are just on a ride that has is headed to a determined end, but also beautiful in that every mistake you’ve ever made was one that you could not have prevented, because it was pre determined that you would do it (this actually gets more into biblical predestination, but it kinda ties into Presentism).

Also, if the future already exists, then wouldn’t it mean that it already happened, actually making it your past? There are those who believe the past, present, and future exist simultaneously.



I don’t really drink but, this is just one of of those topics that interests me. Not saying I believe it, because i don’t know, but it is one that has an interesting theory behind it, just from a purely thought experiment point of view.

I think it is interesting too as it gives a bit of a workout in critical thinking.

But I neither think we are just robots programmed to live a certain life without any say in the matter, or that the present is all that there is.

I know that I did not read all the books in my library at this very moment, but I know what is in them. Easter Island, the pyramids, Notre Dame Cathedral etc. all exist now and they existed when I was a child. The past existed. For sure we cannot change one single thing of the past but it is important to understand that our present is not all there is, that humankind has learned, grown, changed, become better. And we also learn from our past what choices we made that made some things worse and learn from that.

To know whether the past still exists, however, we'll just have to wait until we figure out how to go fast enough to revisit it as Einstein theorized that we could.

Now I am reasonably certain that the future does not already exist or else we would be those programmed robots with no choice in what we think, say, do, hope for. But I do have a future unless I die right now. And the choices I make now will be a huge factor in the life I lead in that future and the choices we collectively make will be a large factor in what kind of world we will live in.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I think it is interesting too as it gives a bit of a workout in critical thinking.

But I neither think we are just robots programmed to live a certain life without any say in the matter, or that the present is all that there is.

I know that I did not read all the books in my library at this very moment, but I know what is in them. Easter Island, the pyramids, Notre Dame Cathedral etc. all exist now and they existed when I was a child. The past existed. For sure we cannot change one single thing of the past but it is important to understand that our present is not all there is, that humankind has learned, grown, changed, become better. And we also learn from our past what choices we made that made some things worse and learn from that.

To know whether the past still exists, however, we'll just have to wait until we figure out how to go fast enough to revisit it as Einstein theorized that we could.

Now I am reasonably certain that the future does not already exist or else we would be those programmed robots with no choice in what we think, say, do, hope for. But I do have a future unless I die right now. And the choices I make now will be a huge factor in the life I lead in that future and the choices we collectively make will be a large factor in what kind of world we will live in.

The best visual representation of the concept is, turn on motion trails in your mouse cursor on your computer. Now imagine the motion trail goes both ways. Some believe that’s how existence works. Your past leaving a trail behind you and your future being the trail in front of you. Presentism is the mouse trails turned off. Where the mouse was no longer is there and where the mouse is going isn’t set yet, but still we push the mouse toward that destination…

 

[Foxfyre]

The best visual representation of the concept is, turn on motion trails in your mouse cursor on your computer. Now imagine the motion trail goes both ways. Some believe that’s how existence works. Your past leaving a trail behind you and your future being the trail in front of you. Presentism is the mouse trails turned off. Where the mouse was no longer is there and where the mouse is going isn’t set yet, but still we push the mouse toward that destination…

There has to be a destination to push for it. And if it requires an hour or so for my bread to rise I have to believe there is a future for it to rise into.

With no past or no future, there would be no need for clocks or watches or the date and time shown on our computers. Time would be meaningless. But it exists so there is your argument for past and future.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

One wonders why The Sage of Main Street disagreed with my Post #10 which I thought rather reasonable given the OP when he/she went into all sorts of non sequitur posts?

Otherwise I rather appreciate the OP's difficult philosophical and perhaps even scientific question that is outside the mainstream.

Time Travel Is a Profitable Hollywood Lie

Implying that memory is a "living past" is a non sequitur. Likewise, saying that the future will come is not a proof of its present existence somewhere out there. But quack scientists do believe in a separate and continuing existence of both the past and the future.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Sounds like the Stephen king short story The Langoliers, where little monster things eat the past, always just behind the present

Carrie On, Carrion