CDZ Posting Solutions for Gun Violence

[Picaro]

Not every town was a boom town, full of drunken rowdy morons, but yes, they did indeed impose gun control, usually draconian controls, whenever the need struck them. The country has always had gun control laws, and the individual states enforced them however they wished. The Feds did nothing, because it was understood it was up to the states, including who qualified as being in their militias. The 2nd restricts the Fed's power, as do all the other Amendments.

Too bad original intent is meaningless, has been since 1861. The law is whatever some judge wants to claim it is. The Constitution is happily ignored, by both left and right wing hacks.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not every town was a boom town, full of drunken rowdy morons, but yes, they did indeed impose gun control, usually draconian controls, whenever the need struck them. The country has always had gun control laws, and the individual states enforced them however they wished. The Feds did nothing, because it was understood it was up to the states, including who qualified as being in their militias. The 2nd restricts the Fed's power, as do all the other Amendments.

Too bad original intent is meaningless, has been since 1861. The law is whatever some judge wants to claim it is. The Constitution is happily ignored, by both left and right wing hacks.

As of 1849 , the Walker Colt, we out grew the power of the last half of the 2nd amendment. We went into a what might be called a Firearms Industrial Explosion right after that where we out grew out weapons. This is why the Civil War was only a preview of the carnage of the wars to come. The Civil war was the last war fought with the more traditional weapons that our Fore Fathers addressed. But it was introducing the weapons to come where more casualties were done by Artillery than anything else when Grapeshot was introduced. And the Civil War was where the exploding ball was introduced in war. The Union introduced the Gatling Gun in battle in 1862.

The first solution we have is to admit that we have outgrown our weapons many times over. We are just too good at killing each other and have found automated ways of doing it.

One of the solutions is to change the society of the Gun. And I think we all can see the troubles of doing that. If it can be done, it's going to be long and painful for some who will go kicking a screaming (and shooting) into the night. I don't see the human race ever being civilized enough to not try and kill itself. It's just not in our DNA.

But I do see us finding solutions where we can overcome that programming we have ingrained into your genes. Otherwise, we would have ended it decades ago.

 

[Picaro]

Not every town was a boom town, full of drunken rowdy morons, but yes, they did indeed impose gun control, usually draconian controls, whenever the need struck them. The country has always had gun control laws, and the individual states enforced them however they wished. The Feds did nothing, because it was understood it was up to the states, including who qualified as being in their militias. The 2nd restricts the Fed's power, as do all the other Amendments.

Too bad original intent is meaningless, has been since 1861. The law is whatever some judge wants to claim it is. The Constitution is happily ignored, by both left and right wing hacks.

As of 1849 , the Walker Colt, we out grew the power of the last half of the 2nd amendment. We went into a what might be called a Firearms Industrial Explosion right after that where we out grew out weapons. This is why the Civil War was only a preview of the carnage of the wars to come. The Civil war was the last war fought with the more traditional weapons that our Fore Fathers addressed. But it was introducing the weapons to come where more casualties were done by Artillery than anything else when Grapeshot was introduced. And the Civil War was where the exploding ball was introduced in war. The Union introduced the Gatling Gun in battle in 1862.

The first solution we have is to admit that we have outgrown our weapons many times over. We are just too good at killing each other and have found automated ways of doing it.

One of the solutions is to change the society of the Gun. And I think we all can see the troubles of doing that. If it can be done, it's going to be long and painful for some who will go kicking a screaming (and shooting) into the night. I don't see the human race ever being civilized enough to not try and kill itself. It's just not in our DNA.

But I do see us finding solutions where we can overcome that programming we have ingrained into your genes. Otherwise, we would have ended it decades ago.

The middle classes can no longer govern, it's that simple. For instance, we can introduce civics tests and only let the educated vote, according to their level of knowledge of how the govt. is organized and operates, with tests for local, state, and Federal levels, but that in itself means nothing if the majority are not on the same page morally and culturally, so that won't solve much, except keeping Maxine Waters out of public office, maybe.

The 'solutions' aren't going to be running around trying to dream up new laws for every single problem; the 'problem' is the disintegration of the society itself, and the dominance of sociopaths and emotionally infantile Burb Brats, and a 'culture' of dope-addled 'adults' at all generational levels completely unable to cooperate..

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not every town was a boom town, full of drunken rowdy morons, but yes, they did indeed impose gun control, usually draconian controls, whenever the need struck them. The country has always had gun control laws, and the individual states enforced them however they wished. The Feds did nothing, because it was understood it was up to the states, including who qualified as being in their militias. The 2nd restricts the Fed's power, as do all the other Amendments.

Too bad original intent is meaningless, has been since 1861. The law is whatever some judge wants to claim it is. The Constitution is happily ignored, by both left and right wing hacks.

As of 1849 , the Walker Colt, we out grew the power of the last half of the 2nd amendment. We went into a what might be called a Firearms Industrial Explosion right after that where we out grew out weapons. This is why the Civil War was only a preview of the carnage of the wars to come. The Civil war was the last war fought with the more traditional weapons that our Fore Fathers addressed. But it was introducing the weapons to come where more casualties were done by Artillery than anything else when Grapeshot was introduced. And the Civil War was where the exploding ball was introduced in war. The Union introduced the Gatling Gun in battle in 1862.

The first solution we have is to admit that we have outgrown our weapons many times over. We are just too good at killing each other and have found automated ways of doing it.

One of the solutions is to change the society of the Gun. And I think we all can see the troubles of doing that. If it can be done, it's going to be long and painful for some who will go kicking a screaming (and shooting) into the night. I don't see the human race ever being civilized enough to not try and kill itself. It's just not in our DNA.

But I do see us finding solutions where we can overcome that programming we have ingrained into your genes. Otherwise, we would have ended it decades ago.

The middle classes can no longer govern, it's that simple. For instance, we can introduce civics tests and only let the educated vote, according to their level of knowledge of how the govt. is organized and operates, with tests for local, state, and Federal levels, but that in itself means nothing if the majority are not on the same page morally and culturally, so that won't solve much, except keeping Maxine Waters out of public office, maybe.

The 'solutions' aren't going to be running around trying to dream up new laws for every single problem; the 'problem' is the disintegration of the society itself, and the dominance of sociopaths and emotionally infantile Burb Brats, and a 'culture' of dope-addled 'adults' at all generational levels completely unable to cooperate..

The first step is to not make everything partisan. Now, reread what you typed. I think you will see a problem with it. As long as we let Party Politics dictate our actions then we are not going to get anywhere. We end up bending to a very small group of UBER Rich people like the Koch Brother, Soros, NRA and a few more who are not interested in our best interest. They are only interested in their own interests. We have one Democrat being backed by the Koch Brothers because she voted for a Bank bill that was extremely unpopular and received 1 million bucks for her campaign from the Koch Foundation. Her opponent, who is a republican, would not back it and he receives nothing even from the Republican Party. This proves that candidates and politicians are purchased and it really doesn't matter which party they are in nor if what they want to support is in the best interest of the common person. We need to get the insane amount of money out of politics and go back to the Public Servant.

 

[Pop23]

What insults?

Let’s do as you suggested and start with the number one category of death.

Suicide. How will your solution change the overall body count?

My reaction is that it won’t. But I’ll await your response.

Starting Tuesday, we have the Gun Dealers, Politicos, Mental Health Agencies and more working on seeing into that at a local level pertaining to Suicides by firearms. This is a huge step in the right direction and is the first of it's kind. Usually, it's one table shouting at the other table where both sides are completely disconnected from each other. Since this City has been named "Average USA" then there is a good chance what comes out of that will apply to almost everywhere else from a small town to a large city. Many of us just won't accept things as they are. While I don't have the answers, there are those way above my pay grade working on it now and I hope something positive comes out of it.

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Again, what insults?

So you think gun locks and training is going to make a substantial dent in suicides? Then why do countries with stricter gun laws have the same suicide rate as here?

It won’t

Should we continue to gang deaths?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I’ve answered each. You? Silence
t.

And knock off with the insults. Or at least start your response with the insult so we can start ignoring your response without having to wade through your entire post.

What insults?

Let’s do as you suggested and start with the number one category of death.

Suicide. How will your solution change the overall body count?

My reaction is that it won’t. But I’ll await your response.

Starting Tuesday, we have the Gun Dealers, Politicos, Mental Health Agencies and more working on seeing into that at a local level pertaining to Suicides by firearms. This is a huge step in the right direction and is the first of it's kind. Usually, it's one table shouting at the other table where both sides are completely disconnected from each other. Since this City has been named "Average USA" then there is a good chance what comes out of that will apply to almost everywhere else from a small town to a large city. Many of us just won't accept things as they are. While I don't have the answers, there are those way above my pay grade working on it now and I hope something positive comes out of it.

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Suicide is not s gun issue since half of all suicides are committed by other means.

Suicide is a choice not a crime

 

[Skull Pilot]

Preventing people from entering a school with guns is the solution.

I'm not going to get into the minutiae of it as each school district is more than capable of implementing an agreed upon solution

Obviously, they aren't.

No they aren't. They. like you. are focusing on the wrong things

And what would be the solutions? We seen to have a pretty good handle on things around here. We averted one already this year that never made it to the school entrance gate. Now, why are you so certain that I am focused on all the wrong things when what we are doing works?

How about solutions without trying to hijack the discussion.

The only thing you talk about is the gun.

And I'm not hijacking anything,

How do you stop people from walking into a school with guns?

It seems to me the answer is pretty simple while the execution might be more complicated.

You control access too both the school grounds and the school
You implement bag checks
You implement an ID protocol
You secure the building so no one can get in or out unnoticed

You are talking about ID Checks and Entrance X-Ray machines. That can be done. What won't be tolerated is the going through each and every student bag or having pat downs, etc.. It has to be very low on the intrusive side.

I said nothing about x ray machines.

A bag check can be done without an x ray.

You are looking for guns it is pretty easy to spot a gun with a visual inspection

You don't have to pat down a person to see if he is carrying a rifle

And who won't tolerate it? The kids? They have no say in the matter.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What insults?

Let’s do as you suggested and start with the number one category of death.

Suicide. How will your solution change the overall body count?

My reaction is that it won’t. But I’ll await your response.

Starting Tuesday, we have the Gun Dealers, Politicos, Mental Health Agencies and more working on seeing into that at a local level pertaining to Suicides by firearms. This is a huge step in the right direction and is the first of it's kind. Usually, it's one table shouting at the other table where both sides are completely disconnected from each other. Since this City has been named "Average USA" then there is a good chance what comes out of that will apply to almost everywhere else from a small town to a large city. Many of us just won't accept things as they are. While I don't have the answers, there are those way above my pay grade working on it now and I hope something positive comes out of it.

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Suicide is not the gun dealer's responsibility. Suicide is a choice

 

[Pop23]

Starting Tuesday, we have the Gun Dealers, Politicos, Mental Health Agencies and more working on seeing into that at a local level pertaining to Suicides by firearms. This is a huge step in the right direction and is the first of it's kind. Usually, it's one table shouting at the other table where both sides are completely disconnected from each other. Since this City has been named "Average USA" then there is a good chance what comes out of that will apply to almost everywhere else from a small town to a large city. Many of us just won't accept things as they are. While I don't have the answers, there are those way above my pay grade working on it now and I hope something positive comes out of it.

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Suicide is not the gun dealer's responsibility. Suicide is a choice

Correct,but when addressing the overall death by firearm issue we must also address what can be, and what can't be solved.

Many nations with strict firearm regulations have just as high a percent of suicides as the United States. A gun is not a requirement for suicide, in fact, absent a firearm the body count involving suicide could be greater than, not less, as those seeking to kill themselves seek other means that involve others.

I've posted links to three such cases, and the are many more, where the suicide involved a) jumping off a highway over pass, killing the driver below. b) a man driving the wrong way on a freeway, taking the life of another driver and c) a woman driving the wrong way down a freeway, killing seven others, but herself surviving.

Suicide accounts for 2/3rd of deaths related to firearms, but I fail to see how any of the "common sense" restrictions I've seen posted eliminates a single suicide.

Now, unless someone can show me my error, and wants to discuss it further, we have now taken 2/3rds of all deaths off the table as there appears to be no solution and certainly, you can't blame the gun when the suicidal would simple seek other means to accomplish their goal.

Next up should be gang related murders, which accounts for 80% of the remaining deaths.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Obviously, they aren't.

No they aren't. They. like you. are focusing on the wrong things

And what would be the solutions? We seen to have a pretty good handle on things around here. We averted one already this year that never made it to the school entrance gate. Now, why are you so certain that I am focused on all the wrong things when what we are doing works?

How about solutions without trying to hijack the discussion.

The only thing you talk about is the gun.

And I'm not hijacking anything,

How do you stop people from walking into a school with guns?

It seems to me the answer is pretty simple while the execution might be more complicated.

You control access too both the school grounds and the school
You implement bag checks
You implement an ID protocol
You secure the building so no one can get in or out unnoticed

You are talking about ID Checks and Entrance X-Ray machines. That can be done. What won't be tolerated is the going through each and every student bag or having pat downs, etc.. It has to be very low on the intrusive side.

I said nothing about x ray machines.

A bag check can be done without an x ray.

You are looking for guns it is pretty easy to spot a gun with a visual inspection

You don't have to pat down a person to see if he is carrying a rifle

And who won't tolerate it? The kids? They have no say in the matter.

Low Dose X-Ray is still the one to beat. Or Metal Detectors. Most Nutjobs don't have the resources to get the high tech 3d printed non metal gun and ammo. The materiel to make it is controlled so that's a real big red flag. Yah, I know, in the movies....... And you are correct. A visual inspection is enough to spot a rifle. Then again, a visual can spot that rifle long before you even get within sight of the school entrance if your community is on the ball. The Rifle should be the least likely to make it to even close to that entrance point. But it's making it anyway. And that's a community action problem and can be dealt with and needs to be dealt with. We have here and have stopped at least one AR from making it to the front gate.

Bag Checks can be done with non intrusive methods. If you find something that "Might" be suspicious then you can inspect the bag. Otherwise, let it go. This IS America and not some 3rd world Despot run country.

Even Kids have rights. Or at least their Parents do. When you are patting down that kid, you are also patting down the parent. Again, you need to justify the need. If you can't then you are in violation of their rights. Again, this is not some 3rd world dumpster world.

 

[MikeK]

From about 1850 to 1871, the Towns and Cities in the West had NO gun regulations. What they had was everyone wearing guns out in the open. What they also had was a huge murder rate, people being killed by stray projectiles, petty arguments being settle by gun battles.

What that tells us is zero gun regulations is not a good idea because it promotes a subconscious lack of restraint and zero sense of responsibility. So the remaining question is how much regulation is needed to maintain a reasonably peaceful atmosphere in an armed society.

I've told you about a modern era ('40s - '50s) I clearly recall during which gun restrictions in a major Northern city were relatively permissive, yet the crime rate was considerably low compared with today. How would you account for that?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

From about 1850 to 1871, the Towns and Cities in the West had NO gun regulations. What they had was everyone wearing guns out in the open. What they also had was a huge murder rate, people being killed by stray projectiles, petty arguments being settle by gun battles.

What that tells us is zero gun regulations is not a good idea because it promotes a subconscious lack of restraint and zero sense of responsibility. So the remaining question is how much regulation is needed to maintain a reasonably peaceful atmosphere in an armed society.

I've told you about a modern era ('40s - '50s) I clearly recall during which gun restrictions in a major Northern city were relatively permissive, yet the crime rate was considerably low compared with today. How would you account for that?

Now, break it down. I can freely talk about the 50s and small towns but I really can't talk about the 40s in a metro area.

 

[2aguy]

1. Only Some Americans own MOST of the Guns. Most Americans don't own any guns.

[...]

That is the problem.

Attempting to control gun violence by passing endless streams of gun laws is obviously moving in the wrong direction. The harassing effect of so many gun laws has been the disarming of a substantial percentage of the law-abiding population, thereby creating an increasing situation in which only the criminal element is armed.

Same tired old diatribe. This doesn't come up with single solution. It just compounds the problem. Now, address the solutions, we already know the problems.

The solutions have been stated.....

--armed guards and/or armed and trained staff

--limit access/entry points to school buidings

--Intelligence..... these nuts advertise long before they walk up to the school

--police call boxes, like fire alarm pull stations, that bypass 911 and go directly to police

--ending democrat, gun free zones, allowing law abiding armed citizens to carry their legal guns onto school grounds, making schools less likely to be targets of mass shooters.

These are solutions that will actually work......

 

[2aguy]

1. Only Some Americans own MOST of the Guns. Most Americans don't own any guns.

[...]

That is the problem.

Attempting to control gun violence by passing endless streams of gun laws is obviously moving in the wrong direction. The harassing effect of so many gun laws has been the disarming of a substantial percentage of the law-abiding population, thereby creating an increasing situation in which only the criminal element is armed.

Same tired old diatribe. This doesn't come up with single solution. It just compounds the problem. Now, address the solutions, we already know the problems.

That is the solution. And it's not a diatribe. It's a simple, common sense fact.

But the prohibitive laws have produced such a dam of repression that lifting the critical bans will enable a flood of gun violence for at least a year or two until the situation stabilizes. That is until the good guys with guns eliminate all or most of the bad guys with guns, which is the inevitable result -- and its what would have happened long ago if the avalanche of redundant gun laws had never started.

The situation is not complicated. You just think it is.

This is as ridiculous as it is wrong.

That was already tried. And it failed miserably. Yah, we are going to have a bunch of drunks with guns running around. How'd that work out before? Or we are going to have angry people with guns running around. How'd that work out before? A lot of innocents died is how that worked. The "Good Guys" with Guns will also start to eliminate themselves and others around them. History tell us it's not a real good idea.

You have no idea what you are talking about.....you ignore over 20 years of actual experience......where nothing you state in your post actually happened, in fact the exact opposite happened....

History tells us the exact opposite of what you are saying......that is the truth, the fact and the reality.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Not every town was a boom town, full of drunken rowdy morons, but yes, they did indeed impose gun control, usually draconian controls, whenever the need struck them. The country has always had gun control laws, and the individual states enforced them however they wished. The Feds did nothing, because it was understood it was up to the states, including who qualified as being in their militias. The 2nd restricts the Fed's power, as do all the other Amendments.

Too bad original intent is meaningless, has been since 1861. The law is whatever some judge wants to claim it is. The Constitution is happily ignored, by both left and right wing hacks.

As of 1849 , the Walker Colt, we out grew the power of the last half of the 2nd amendment. We went into a what might be called a Firearms Industrial Explosion right after that where we out grew out weapons. This is why the Civil War was only a preview of the carnage of the wars to come. The Civil war was the last war fought with the more traditional weapons that our Fore Fathers addressed. But it was introducing the weapons to come where more casualties were done by Artillery than anything else when Grapeshot was introduced. And the Civil War was where the exploding ball was introduced in war. The Union introduced the Gatling Gun in battle in 1862.

The first solution we have is to admit that we have outgrown our weapons many times over. We are just too good at killing each other and have found automated ways of doing it.

One of the solutions is to change the society of the Gun. And I think we all can see the troubles of doing that. If it can be done, it's going to be long and painful for some who will go kicking a screaming (and shooting) into the night. I don't see the human race ever being civilized enough to not try and kill itself. It's just not in our DNA.

But I do see us finding solutions where we can overcome that programming we have ingrained into your genes. Otherwise, we would have ended it decades ago.

And again.....you don't know the truth, or the reality of gun ownership in America....you have created an image in your mind that is not true or accurate, and you want to create policy off of a fantasy in your head.....

this is the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[MikeK]

Now, break it down. I can freely talk about the 50s and small towns but I really can't talk about the 40s in a metro area.

The '40s, both the first and the second half of that decade, were significantly affected by the War, so it doesn't serve as a valid reference. But the '50s and the early '60s were comparatively free of violent crime -- in spite of the generally liberal public disposition toward guns.

Another example of the difference is the afternoon I bought a .22 rifle from a fellow who lived halfway up the block and across the street. I walked from his house to mine openly but discreetly carrying that Marlin lever action rifle and no one paid more than casual attention to it. Today I could expect a visit from a S.W.A.T. team.

Today, while guns have become anathema to a substantial percentage of the population, violent crime is epidemic. While far fewer Americans own guns today there is substantially more gun crime and misuse than ever before. So it's obvious that repressive gun laws is not the solution to the problem of violent crime.

 

[2aguy]

Starting Tuesday, we have the Gun Dealers, Politicos, Mental Health Agencies and more working on seeing into that at a local level pertaining to Suicides by firearms. This is a huge step in the right direction and is the first of it's kind. Usually, it's one table shouting at the other table where both sides are completely disconnected from each other. Since this City has been named "Average USA" then there is a good chance what comes out of that will apply to almost everywhere else from a small town to a large city. Many of us just won't accept things as they are. While I don't have the answers, there are those way above my pay grade working on it now and I hope something positive comes out of it.

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Again, what insults?

So you think gun locks and training is going to make a substantial dent in suicides? Then why do countries with stricter gun laws have the same suicide rate as here?

It won’t

Should we continue to gang deaths?

actually, Japan, China, Korea...all have higher suicide rates than we do, and they have extreme gun control laws....also, many countries in Europe with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do....he is simply wrong again...

 

[Pop23]

Stopping suicide is a side issue. What common sense gun control will lesson the overall body count.

To be clear, I’m not seeing anything on the table that could

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Again, what insults?

So you think gun locks and training is going to make a substantial dent in suicides? Then why do countries with stricter gun laws have the same suicide rate as here?

It won’t

Should we continue to gang deaths?

actually, Japan, China, Korea...all have higher suicide rates than we do, and they have extreme gun control laws....also, many countries in Europe with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do....he is simply wrong again...

True, and since that is fact, we’ve just eliminated 2/3rds of the firearm related deaths that restriction noted would stop.

The second greatest number of deaths are related to gangs. 80% of the remaining 1/3rd.

I would like to hear Daryl Hunt s proposed solution for these.

 

[2aguy]

All you see is that they are coming for your toys. It's not all about taking your guns. There are more involved than gun control or regulations. Broaden your scope a bit. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels and the rest of the world goes on without you.

The School shooter here wasn't stopped by gun grabbing. It was done by community involvement. There are so many flags that happen before a Mass Shooter ever pulls that first trigger that gives ample warning if the community cares to notice. To be distracted by a bunch of people screaming "You are after my guns" isn't what will cure a thing. There are solutions out there. We just need to get together and find them. The first step is communication from all sides without the BS. And that is exactly what they are trying.

And stopping Suicide isn't just a side issue. It's as big an issue as any other issue with firearms.

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Again, what insults?

So you think gun locks and training is going to make a substantial dent in suicides? Then why do countries with stricter gun laws have the same suicide rate as here?

It won’t

Should we continue to gang deaths?

actually, Japan, China, Korea...all have higher suicide rates than we do, and they have extreme gun control laws....also, many countries in Europe with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do....he is simply wrong again...

True, and since that is fact, we’ve just eliminated 2/3rds of the firearm related deaths that restriction noted would stop.

The second greatest number of deaths are related to gangs. 80% of the remaining 1/3rd.

I would like to hear Daryl Hunt s proposed solution for these.

That is easy....30 years for any use of a gun to commit rape, robbery or murder.....

 

[Pop23]

Then what will your solution do to decrease the number of suicides?

I don’t see an argument. Let’s hear one

I have already said that a panel has been put together made up Gun Dealers, Health Medicos and more that start meeting tuesday that are going to look at the suicide rate of firearms. Am I as smart as those folks? Nope. But for the first time, all the sides are sitting down at the same table and actually going to discuss it. What we usually have is a bunch of different tables just yelling insults at the other tables. Just like any "Discussion" you are involved in.

Again, what insults?

So you think gun locks and training is going to make a substantial dent in suicides? Then why do countries with stricter gun laws have the same suicide rate as here?

It won’t

Should we continue to gang deaths?

actually, Japan, China, Korea...all have higher suicide rates than we do, and they have extreme gun control laws....also, many countries in Europe with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do....he is simply wrong again...

True, and since that is fact, we’ve just eliminated 2/3rds of the firearm related deaths that restriction noted would stop.

The second greatest number of deaths are related to gangs. 80% of the remaining 1/3rd.

I would like to hear Daryl Hunt s proposed solution for these.

That is easy....30 years for any use of a gun to commit rape, robbery or murder.....

They need to be treated as they are. Terrorists. 30 years for those directly related, and the remaining gang members as co-conspirators