Zone1 Possible Forgiveness Strategy

[presonorek]

The reason I don't believe this is correct, is that over seven hundred years before Jesus, Hosea had a message from God. It was: I don’t want your sacrifices—I want your love; I don’t want your offerings—I want you to know me.

In the Matthew's Gospel, Jesus quote Hosea and instructed the people to go and learn that.

What we have in Jesus' life and death is Jesus' insistence that sins are forgiveness and that we are God's redeemed people. We are to learn to love and to know God. That is the better use of our time/life than sacrificial burnt offerings. God never was mad at us, God never needed to be appeased. What we needed was to learn that despite the sin of Adam and Eve, despite the sins of all mankind, turning from sin draws us into the Kingdom of God and thereby redemption.

Why was the aroma of a burnt offering a sweet savour unto the Lord? That phrase is repeated constantly in the book of Leviticus.

 

[BreezeWood]

When I mention the keeping of ill gotten gains I refer to more than material items. For a less material example…
It also applies to the adulterous spouse who leaves their husband, or wife, then takes up with another. How many whom have asked for forgiveness even consider truly “repenting” that sin? Precious few I’d wager. Undoing the tangle of one’s sin can be one of the most humbling, humiliating, and difficult things a person can do. Sometimes not even possible to succeed at. However the onus is on the transgressor of the sin to attempt with all their heart to do so.

oh, that does cover the exemplars of the 1st century ... mary's little lamb.

kid yourself not the great evil perpetuated, paterfamilias - is strewn throughout the desert religions to victimize and persecute the innocent without abatement to this day. speaking of heartless sinners.

 

[Vastator]

oh, that does cover the exemplars of the 1st century ... mary's little lamb.

kid yourself not the great evil perpetuated, paterfamilias - is strewn throughout the desert religions to victimize and persecute the innocent without abatement to this day. speaking of heartless sinners.

Care to clarify..?

 

[SweetSue92]

When I mention the keeping of ill gotten gains I refer to more than material items. For a less material example…
It also applies to the adulterous spouse who leaves their husband, or wife, then takes up with another. How many whom have asked for forgiveness even consider truly “repenting” that sin? Precious few I’d wager. Undoing the tangle of one’s sin can be one of the most humbling, humiliating, and difficult things a person can do. Sometimes not even possible to succeed at. However the onus is on the transgressor of the sin to attempt with all their heart to do so.

I'm going to agree with you here. All Christians fail at being Christian, all the time. It is why Jesus had to die.

However, most saved Christians will at least try to right the ship--will be unable to persist in unrepentant sin, especially that which brings harm to others.

Please note however that being Christian is not a "default". You're not really Christian just because you kinda-sorta belief in God and like Christmas. You're also not Christian because you go to church once every three months. It's daily. It's commitment. And as you note, not easy.

 

[BreezeWood]

Care to clarify..?

really -

It also applies to the adulterous spouse who leaves their husband, or wife, then takes up with another. How many whom have asked for forgiveness even consider truly “repenting” that sin?

kid yourself not the great evil perpetuated, paterfamilias -

well, to overgeneralize to minimize the impact why not consider all the phony - desert 10 commandments - evil perpetrators for the purpose to persecute and victimize the innocent.

then again what christian for one would not again crucify the liberation theology, self determination of the 1st century they so wittingly repeat timelessly for their own stylized 4th century c-bible.

 

[Vastator]

really -




well, to overgeneralize to minimize the impact why not consider all the phony - desert 10 commandments - evil perpetrators for the purpose to persecute and victimize the innocent.

then again what christian for one would not again crucify the liberation theology, self determination of the 1st century they so wittingly repeat timelessly for their own stylized 4th century c-bible.

You don't English well, do you..?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

really -




well, to overgeneralize to minimize the impact why not consider all the phony - desert 10 commandments - evil perpetrators for the purpose to persecute and victimize the innocent.

then again what christian for one would not again crucify the liberation theology, self determination of the 1st century they so wittingly repeat timelessly for their own stylized 4th century c-bible.

You should try recording your words and play them back to yourself. Word salad junk food

 

[presonorek]

………All Christians fail…….
You're not really Christian just because……….You're also not Christian because……….

Without personally attacking me, (because my personality is 100% irrelevant) what is the benefit of being a Christian?

 

[presonorek]

You should try recording your words and play them back to yourself. Word salad junk food

At least it is consistent. I have been watching him for years complaining about that dang corrupt 4th Century Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

what is the benefit of being a Christian?

While most likely true of all religions, I find the benefit of being a Christian is the hand it extends to us in our present life. Its Way to live life and walk through this life brings fulfillment not only to the blessings of this life, but also its sorrows and pain.

 

[presonorek]

While most likely true of all religions, I find the benefit of being a Christian is the hand it extends to us in our present life. Its Way to live life and walk through this life brings fulfillment not only to the blessings of this life, but also its sorrows and pain.

So it’s ok if someone doesn’t categorize you as a Christian because you don’t do this or you don’t do that or you say this instead of this? Christian is a definable term but usually the user of the word doesn’t offer their definition.

I just think it is a petty label that nobody really pursues. They just proclaim it like it is some kind of badge of honor. I would imagine the people that are defined as Christian don’t give a rat’s rear end if they have the label or not.

 

[BreezeWood]

So it’s ok if someone doesn’t categorize you as a Christian because you don’t do this or you don’t do that or you say this instead of this? Christian is a definable term but usually the user of the word doesn’t offer their definition.

I just think it is a petty label that nobody really pursues. They just proclaim it like it is some kind of badge of honor. I would imagine the people that are defined as Christian don’t give a rat’s rear end if they have the label or not.

what is the benefit of being a Christian?

unimaginable riches of every kind ... without worry and eternal salvation.

* all found in their c-bible ... glory hallelujah

His truth is marching on.

 

[Meriweather]

So it’s ok if someone doesn’t categorize you as a Christian because you don’t do this or you don’t do that or you say this instead of this?

Doesn't matter how others categorize us. What matters is whether Christ recognizes us as disciples.

 

[Meriweather]

I just think it is a petty label that nobody really pursues. They just proclaim it like it is some kind of badge of honor.

Mother. Father. Health Care Worker. Teacher. Builder. These are labels, too, all honorable. Doesn't mean everyone is good at it. Just as one might be a failure as a mother or father, doesn't mean they aren't a parent. Same with the other professions and practicing Christians. Some are failures. Doesn't mean they aren't at least trying.

 

[ding]

Without personally attacking me, (because my personality is 100% irrelevant) what is the benefit of being a Christian?

To die to self to see reality.

 

[BreezeWood]

... what is the benefit of being a Christian?

To die to self to see reality.

seems you've accomplished that in flying colours ... christian or not, are you seeing more clearly. the liberation theology, self determination those in the 1st century died for - themselves, literally.

just wondering - how is that related to worshiping a messiah ...

especially without the knowledge why they were crucified. and the silly c-bible story - what occurred was by their own designed purpose.

 

[ding]

seems you've accomplished that in flying colours ... christian or not, are you seeing more clearly. the liberation theology, self determination those in the 1st century died for - themselves, literally.

just wondering - how is that related to worshiping a messiah ...

especially without the knowledge why they were crucified. and the silly c-bible story - what occurred was by their own designed purpose.

Keep wondering.

 

[onefour1]

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe the first question you need to ask yourself is, "If God is all powerful, why didn't he simply make mankind to be perfect?". Why didn't God use his power to make us all from the beginning to be just like Himself to know and understand and desire never to sin and be loving and caring beings for each other. Why did he make us inferior beings?

The answer to the above question gives great understanding of why God does what he does and why we are inferior beings. My answer to this question was found in the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The more we truly understand what kind of being God is we can truly appreciate why he does what he does.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The more we come to know and understand God himself, the more we can appreciate and love him and see with a clear eye of understanding the purposes of God and why we are what we are and his plan for us.

 

[onefour1]

The verse from the revelations of Joseph Smith is:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that man preexisted this earth life and our spirits were the offspring of God. As his offspring we received a spirit body but before that, we were self existing beings known as an intelligence. So we believe that mankind has always existed as an intelligence but that we, through the process of procreation became the offspring of God or his spirit children. Later we came to this earth as the posterity of Adam and Eve. Because of our self-existent nature, God could never have created our intelligence. God, knowing we have a self existent base existence knew that for us to progress, we needed to learn to become like him and not simply be made like him. For this reason, God has allowed us to come to a fallen world as mortals for a temporary amount of time in order to learn good from evil and to test us to see if we would choose good over evil and remain good beings. He knew that we were not perfect and that we would make mistakes along the path of progression. For this reason he called and chose a Savior from before the foundation of the earth so that we might have a chance to repent and forsake our sins and gain forgiveness and return unto God after this mortal probation.

The knowledge that God could not create us to be perfect due to our self-existent nature gives us more understanding why God has placed our immortal spirits in the situation we are in to learn to become more like himself. Nobody forces God to be the person he is and for us to become like him, God also gives us free will to choose just as He himself has. We need to learn to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings and thus we are placed in a situation to learn and experience good and evil and have the free will to choose good over evil. Only those who choose to become like God are allowed into the highest kingdom, ie the kingdom of heaven, to live again in the presence of God forever and ever. Those who fail to repent and become good beings will inherit inferior kingdoms that are ruled over by those who inherit the kingdom of heaven. God loves his children and has given each of the opportunity to make a free choice to become like him and inherit the kingdom of heaven. In our premortal existence, we all freely chose to come to this earth and experience mortality and learn good and evil. Unfortunately many of us fail to choose good over evil and may not return to the highest kingdom. But all of us will receive resurrection an immortality and continue living for ever and ever in bodies of flesh and bones. Those who come to this earth life and do not have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ will be given that opportunity in the world of spirits after mortality and thus all mankind will have the chance to accept or reject the Lord's gospel. This will occur before the resurrection and judgement. So all mankind will have the opportunity to accept the gospel and the chance to enter the kingdom of heaven. So what it all really comes down to is what we will do with our free will. Will we learn to repent and do good or will we continue in our sins and disregard Jesus and his gospel?

This is how we who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints view our eternal progression. The law of justice says that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But God has made it so we can change our behavior and repent and find forgiveness of our sins and escape the demands of justice. This is possible because a being who was perfectly innocent, who was a lamb with blemish and spot was willing to place himself on earth and suffer the wrath of the devil and wicked men. The persecution and suffering that He suffered was unjust because he never sinned and lived a life without offending God our Father in the least. The Father knew that this unjust suffering of his Firstborn Son in the spirit and His Only Begotten Son in the flesh would not only deserve a recompense but also deserve a recompense to the extent of his suffering. Because Jesus took upon himself the suffering of all mankind, he was granted the recompense of the power to forgive all mankind upon the principle of repentance. Without this atoning sacrifice mankind would be lost to the law of justice and not one would ever make it back into the presence of God our loving Eternal Father in Heaven. But God is an all just being and an all merciful being to those who repent and truly become good beings. Only to those who repent is God justified in granting them reentrance into his glorious kingdom. Those who do not repent will find themselves in lower kingdoms of glory but to those who become the Sons of Perdition, they will end up in a kingdom without glory known as Outer Darkness. He will eventually judge us on what we chose with our free will and whether we chose to be good beings or not. His judgment is just and his mercy is just. It is up to us individually to choose our future lives in the hereafter.

 

[BreezeWood]

To die to self to see reality.

just wondering - how is that related to worshiping a messiah ...

Keep wondering.

well, bing -

it's not just you, the christian community, desert religions seem all to have your same mentality and maybe for the good of society clarification might be in order for a possible change to those world views and would be in the best interest for everyone - on planet earth ... thx.