POLL: Trump's America, 2025

[Crepitus]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I'm not sure there would even be and America after 4 more years of tRump.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm not sure there would even be and America after 4 more years of tRump.

In my worst fears, we'd be pretty close to actual physical division.

Look at the posts here. Many Trumpsters would be happy with that.

 

[martybegan]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

 

[martybegan]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

Mac,

I think the main problem you can see here, Look how many posts on this thread relies on falsehoods about the Candidates, especially Biden... There is no concept of truth or integrity... this is the major sickness in America...

Mac, remember a time when you grew up and you said some nonsense? People would ignore you... That is not happening, integrity has gone. This is a war and the first casualty in war is the truth.

Lets look at this first page of this thread and look at false claims or accusation without proof about each candidate....

Norman
Biden who believes that America belongs to "immigrants" - Unproven, Statement please
(immigrants) do not want the American values. - Could you tell us what percentage want this?
we will be more angry and more divided come 2025 - Prove that, Trump is President and this hostility is under his watch...
there are the leftists who all the wealth and racial division has made completely insane if not a little opportunistic. - Not any major element

Polishprince
First answer
If Biden were to emerge victorious, it would teach his devotees that rioting, burning and looting work in America and civil society is obsolete- at least in the fields of government and politics. - Seriously

Second Answer
And why don't you think that a victory by the Sleepy Joe base would cause division? A lot of people oppose Biden's radical ideas , from reparations to men in dresses being allowed to violate the sanctity of the nation's Ladies Rooms. - Biden Radical, please prove this... Biden would be center right in any other developed nation. Again more insults..

Jittss
There is the TDS option? - Gaslighting
Ok tds - Gaslighting

DBA
First Answer:
Good, don't agree with him but he put up a worth while answer...
Second Answer:
I say he was stretching it a bit running a old narrative. But it is generally respectful.

alang1216
Trump, having won, will have no interest in governing or running for any office so the GOP in congress will rule, also he won't need to fan any flames of division, he'll just want to shore up his legend. - This is a bit of a stretch but nothing major. Most presidents care about there legacy.
He'll have lots of rallies to support his ego and ANY candidate that says nice things about him. - True, We have seen this
Lots of golf. - True
Meanwhile the GOP will be anxious to look to the future and see that catering solely to white men is not a winning, long-term strategy. - This is the question.

A post or two above, I talk about how we used to be able to communicate, collaborate and innovate. Back when we were great.

I think that's the only way out of this. And it may mean that literally half the country is, as you say, ignored.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

 

[martybegan]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

 

[Crepitus]

I'm not sure there would even be and America after 4 more years of tRump.

In my worst fears, we'd be pretty close to actual physical division.

Look at the posts here. Many Trumpsters would be happy with that.

I'm afraid we will be past physical division and deep into street fighting.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

No, I agree with that. Leaning on a corporate "culture" can be every bit as negative as positive. A "culture" can stink things up pretty quickly over time, because it rarely remains static.

The only "culture" that I support across the board is one that values communication, collaboration, innovation. I guess I could call it a "system", but I think of it more as a rule that simply needs to be enforced by the right people. It's only a shell, an outline. And, there has to be ultimate decision-makers so that there is clear accountability and responsibility. This ain't a hippy commune.

But to me, it's an absolute requirement.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm not sure there would even be and America after 4 more years of tRump.

In my worst fears, we'd be pretty close to actual physical division.

Look at the posts here. Many Trumpsters would be happy with that.

I'm afraid we will be past physical division and deep into street fighting.

Yeah, damn well could be.

 

[SmokeALib]

It's Freedom vs government rule. The worthless leftist traitors not only want government rule - they need it. They simply don't have the common sense to think and do for themselves. These braindead communists will always divide this country - no matter if Trump wins or not.

 

[JoeB131]

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

Okay, if Trump is reelected, his sheer incompetence will make matters so bad that the GOP will be done as a party. The only thing keeping him tethered at this point, is the need to not go too crazy because he wanted a second term.

As for your whining that "Hopefully people will go to the middle"... Um. No. They are at the middle now with Biden. They were at the middle with Hillary. If anything, they'll probably nominate someone more on the edge so they can actually get excited. If Biden loses, the cry will be, "Should have gone with Bernie!"

 

[JoeB131]

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

Translation- Mac wants two Republican Parties because on isn't doing enough damage.

 

[Crepitus]

It's Freedom vs government rule. The worthless leftist traitors not only want government rule - they need it. They simply don't have the common sense to think and do for themselves. These braindead communists will always divide this country - no matter if Trump wins or not.

What freedoms do you think tRump is giving you?

 

[martybegan]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

No, I agree with that. Leaning on a corporate "culture" can be every bit as negative as positive. A "culture" can stink things up pretty quickly over time, because it rarely remains static.

The only "culture" that I support across the board is one that values communication, collaboration, innovation. I guess I could call it a "system", but I think of it more as a rule that simply needs to be enforced by the right people. It's only a shell, an outline. And, there has to be ultimate decision-makers so that there is clear accountability and responsibility. This ain't a hippy commune.

But to me, it's an absolute requirement.

If you have to enforce communication, collaboration and innovation, then you aren't getting real versions of the three.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

No, I agree with that. Leaning on a corporate "culture" can be every bit as negative as positive. A "culture" can stink things up pretty quickly over time, because it rarely remains static.

The only "culture" that I support across the board is one that values communication, collaboration, innovation. I guess I could call it a "system", but I think of it more as a rule that simply needs to be enforced by the right people. It's only a shell, an outline. And, there has to be ultimate decision-makers so that there is clear accountability and responsibility. This ain't a hippy commune.

But to me, it's an absolute requirement.

If you have to enforce communication, collaboration and innovation, then you aren't getting real versions of the three.

That depends entirely on the people involved. Those who are capable of communication, collaboration and innovation get it. It's organic for them.

I used to think that anyone could break free from their ideological cocoon and contribute. I no longer believe that. We'll have to work around them.

 

[martybegan]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

No, I agree with that. Leaning on a corporate "culture" can be every bit as negative as positive. A "culture" can stink things up pretty quickly over time, because it rarely remains static.

The only "culture" that I support across the board is one that values communication, collaboration, innovation. I guess I could call it a "system", but I think of it more as a rule that simply needs to be enforced by the right people. It's only a shell, an outline. And, there has to be ultimate decision-makers so that there is clear accountability and responsibility. This ain't a hippy commune.

But to me, it's an absolute requirement.

If you have to enforce communication, collaboration and innovation, then you aren't getting real versions of the three.

That depends entirely on the people involved. Those who are capable of communication, collaboration and innovation get it. It's organic for them.

I used to think that anyone could break free from their ideological cocoon and contribute. I no longer believe that. We'll have to work around them.

They have a habit of widening when you try to do so.

 

[Mac1958]

It's entirely possible that Trump could win again in November. That makes me wonder what our increasing divisions (primarily race & wealth) would look like when he left office in January 2025.

But this poll isn't about predictions. This is about what you want to see (regarding those divisions) America look like in January 2025.

To expand on the poll questions:

1. I don't care. I'd have my taxes lowered, my gun rights intact, and we'd have a very conservative Supreme Court in place to control abortion, immigration, and other issues. PLUS, there would probably be a lot more violence from the Left in response, which would help us in the 2024 elections.
2. America would be even more divided and angry, with even more people suffering. I hope that by that time, enough people will have been marginalized, and demographics will have continued to change enough, that the American people are finally able to say "enough is enough" to this ugliness.
3. The divisions may get so bad that we'll see a strong move towards the middle of this mess. Between the selfish, arrogant ignorance that is Trumpism, and the PC - Identity Politics - Cancel Culture bullshit that is keeping people away from the Democrats, some reasonable voices will finally find significant traction.

Please feel free to go into detail. Your vote will not be visible.

I would all depend on how the left took the loss. If they are brought to reality and see that their embrace of identity politics and hard socialism is making their party a pariah to the middle of the country, then maybe we would see them try to return to a more moderate stance.

On the other hand if the decide to double down and go even more radical, then their only recourse is to declare Trump's win illegal/illegitimate and then condone whatever violence will begin to explode across the country for 4 years as some of the more radical rioters decide to "go professional" and up the ante by bringing back actual revolutionary leftists outfits like the Weather Underground.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

When I saw that Trump had won in 2016, the very first thing that popped into my little brain was something very similar to your point: Concern that the pushback to him would be so severe and so strong that the most radical elements of the party (The Regressive Left) would be able to take over the Democratic Party and give us two horrific options in 2020. On one hand, it's good that the party was spared Regressive Leftist candidates, but on the other, Biden is a terrible candidate and the party remains a shit show.

It seems to me that there is a real possibility that (a) the violence from the most radical elements of the Left would only increase, (b) the violence would only make Trump more of a hard-liner, and (c) our divisions could continue to increase. The country really could be teetering on literal division in 2024, and you can see by the responses here that many Trumpsters would be fine with that.

What gives me hope is that the voices of moderation and sanity may be getting louder. As far as I'm concerned, this is the one thing that can save us.

You were only spared them at the Presidential level. at the legislative and State levels, they are out in force.

And Biden is an opportunist, he will go hard left if that's how he sees a path to victory, or at least that's what his team members will tell him.

And assuming the middle path is the right path is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "middle" path. Nor do I really think that would be a very good idea.

I do think, however, that there is a third path -- the innovation of new ideas that can only come from open, honest communication and collaboration. By those who actually have the ability to communicate and collaborate and innovate.

America used to be pretty good at innovation. Back when we were great.

Your middle statement just gave me flashbacks to my last corporate team building meeting.

Also, new ideas can be bad ideas. Just look at new Coke.

Innovation requires struggle, or at least people who desire to improve themselves. It's why the left's desire to let government handle everything is self defeating because it removes the incentive to improve oneself.

But I digress.

Ironic that you would say that. I have several business clients, and I always talk with them and work with them on increasing the quality and quantity of communication, destroying "silos", and working together to innovate. That's not even my area -- I'm a financial guy -- but I know how critical this is to the health of a company. And the clients sure as hell appreciate it.

We can still do this on the business level. But we've lost the capacity on a cultural and political level. We had better get it back, and soon.

I see it differently, I see it as companies concentrating too much on the "culture" of the company and not about the product of the company. Engineering firms forget about Engineering and care more about the project management and not the project results.

Compromise on the political stage is only possible if people stop going for federal level one size fits all "solutions" to problems, both real and perceived.

and right now the Left are the ones wanting to do everything nationally, even if large parts of the country want nothing to do with it.

No, I agree with that. Leaning on a corporate "culture" can be every bit as negative as positive. A "culture" can stink things up pretty quickly over time, because it rarely remains static.

The only "culture" that I support across the board is one that values communication, collaboration, innovation. I guess I could call it a "system", but I think of it more as a rule that simply needs to be enforced by the right people. It's only a shell, an outline. And, there has to be ultimate decision-makers so that there is clear accountability and responsibility. This ain't a hippy commune.

But to me, it's an absolute requirement.

If you have to enforce communication, collaboration and innovation, then you aren't getting real versions of the three.

That depends entirely on the people involved. Those who are capable of communication, collaboration and innovation get it. It's organic for them.

I used to think that anyone could break free from their ideological cocoon and contribute. I no longer believe that. We'll have to work around them.

They have a habit of widening when you try to do so.

Well, this sure as hell wouldn't be easy, that's for sure.

I'm not even holding my breath any more. I'm just hoping now.