POLL: Serious question for conservatives: Have you given up?

[Skull Pilot]

Republicans are a great example of the definition of insanity

They vote for all these people who say they are for small government and every time the so called conservatives they vote for increase the size scope and debt of the government they said they were going to make smaller less intrusive and less expensive

Insane

 

[Muhammed]

The Democrats are trembling in fear because they know Trump can beat any candidate they have.

 

[Mac1958]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

So. Have I given up?

I gave up a long time ago.

This country is going down a perilous path that I cannot follow, it has come to a forked path. If it went down one or the other branch of the fork, I wouldn't follow. You see, both roads lead to peril. If I ever manage to marry and have children of my own, I'll be telling them stories of what America used to be before she chose to tear herself apart. The sad part is that it isn't just Republicans, it's Democrats too. Political divisiveness has shattered this country in two, hence the fork in the path.

America herself needs to be put back together. This political hatred is destructive. Instead of going down the left or right side of that fork in the path like we have done, perhaps we should have turned around and read the signposts we passed without consulting rather than walking blindly to our doom. There may have been a better path.

There are people on both ends of the spectrum who literally have a vested professional interest in keeping people angry and divided and intolerant, and it's not at all difficult to see the effects of their work. You can sure as hell see it on this board.

They've created and nurtured a generation of narcissistic, ideologically binary followers. And more amazingly, these followers can be very intelligent, yet they're still turned into zealots. That's how powerful and effective these messages are.

To me, that's what needs to be admitted and addressed first.
.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

As a strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings, I haven't given up, but I am worried that things have to get worse before they get better.

Implementing the failed, sophomoric, and inane dogma of “strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings” would in fact be things getting worse.

Rejecting this sort of moronic reactionaryism is an important part of making things better.

The fear, ignorance, and blind adherence to your failed dogma represents is what's indeed holding America back.

 

[Geaux4it]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

As a strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings, I haven't given up, but I am worried that things have to get worse before they get better.

Implementing the failed, sophomoric, and inane dogma of “strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings” would in fact be things getting worse.

Rejecting this sort of moronic reactionaryism is an important part of making things better.

The fear, ignorance, and blind adherence to your failed dogma represents is what's indeed holding America back.

No Obama is 'holding back' America and quite frankly, has his shoe stepping on our throats. Obama needs to continue huffing down cheap smokes and booze then make a trip to a ranch in Texas. I have a dream

-Geaux

 

[JoeB131]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

As usual you're wrong. Here's the real deal.

Plutocrats realized that can't sell their shit of shifting the wealth to the rich and weakening worker's rights.

So starting with Nixon's Southern Strategy, they've played on the racial, sexual and religious fears of White Middle class males. that Hispanic Atheist Lesbian wants half your cookie!!! Completely ignore the fact there are plenty of cookies to go around, but the rich are gobbling down most of them.

The problem is, most of these fears are exactly that, fears. So while in rational argument, you can't really win the argument over gay marriage or segregation, you do manage to distract those middle class white males into voting for things like Free Trade, Right to Work, At Will Employment, tax cuts for the rich that are made up with taxes on the middle class.

So while engage in masterful misdirection of pointing out a case where a town had to take down an illegal nativity scene or some bigoted bakers got fined for breach of contract when they refused to bake a cake for some gay people, they quietly slip in some other rule to screw working people, and you all smile when they do it.

 

[Kondor3]

The way forward for the Republican Party may very well prove to be Populism, for the foreseeable future.

For the benefit of unimaginative and vision-less dullards, that means taking a Conservative tack in pursuing a Populist agenda.

Translation: the way forward for the Republican Party is to re-establish itself as The Party of the Common Man - not the Corporatists.

From the 1850s through the 1910s, the Republican Party was the upstart rebel party, Lincoln's party, the Party of the People.

By the turn of the 20th Century, it had earned its fond, heartfelt nickname: the G(rand) O(ld) P(arty)... looking out for Americans.

And then, sometime fairly soon after a final Populist burst, as Teddy Roosevelt busted a few trusts...

The Corporatists got hold of the GOP... firming-up their control during World War One... and never letting go, ever since.

It merely took the American People another 70 or 80 years to figure that out... hidden as well as it was, until it could be hidden no longer.

The only reason why people vote Republican nowadays is to rein-in and throttle-back the worst of what Liberals try to shove down our throats.

But, the GOP now lacks broad popular appeal in its own right and for its own ideas... nowadays, it's merely the UN-Cola... The Checks-and-Balances... The Other Guys who get a turn at-bat every so often.

That's not exactly something to give the American voting public a case of the warm-and-fuzzies.

Rather than Conservatism as the rally-cry of a very slowing dying political party, why not Populism, with a modestly Conservative twist to it?

Revert to serving The People, rather than the Corporatists, and serve-up a Conservative approach with real heart and soul to it, to advance their cause.

That done, it will truly have gone back to its roots, and become, once again, the Grand Old Party of history and legend.

But... it is the fate of fools, that they will not look in the mirror long enough and honestly enough to make any of that happen.

So they plod along, until they get their heads handed to them at the polls, time and again, until they run out of steam, and it becomes too late to salvage what's left and rebuild.

 

[Mac1958]

The way forward for the Republican Party may very well prove to be Populism, for the foreseeable future.

For the benefit of unimaginative and vision-less dullards, that means taking a Conservative tack in pursuing a Populist agenda.

Translation: the way forward for the Republican Party is to re-establish itself as The Party of the Common Man - not the Corporatists.

From the 1850s through the 1910s, the Republican Party was the upstart rebel party, Lincoln's party, the Party of the People.

By the turn of the 20th Century, it had earned its fond, heartfelt nickname: the G(rand) O(ld) P(arty)... looking out for Americans.

And then, sometime fairly soon after a final Populist burst, as Teddy Roosevelt busted a few trusts...

The Corporatists got hold of the GOP... firming-up their control during World War One... and never letting go, ever since.

It merely took the American People another 70 or 80 years to figure that out... hidden as well as it was, until it could be hidden no longer.

The only reason why people vote Republican nowadays is to rein-in and throttle-back the worst of what Liberals try to shove down our throats.

But, the GOP now lacks broad popular appeal in its own right and for its own ideas... nowadays, it's merely the UN-Cola... The Checks-and-Balances... The Other Guys who get a turn at-bat every so often.

That's not exactly something to give the American voting public a case of the warm-and-fuzzies.

Rather than Conservatism as the rally-cry of a very slowing dying political party, why not Populism, with a modestly Conservative twist to it?

Revert to serving The People, rather than the Corporatists, and serve-up a Conservative approach with real heart and soul to it, to advance their cause.

That done, it will truly have gone back to its roots, and become, once again, the Grand Old Party of history and legend.

But... it is the fate of fools, that they will not look in the mirror long enough and honestly enough to make any of that happen.

So they plod along, until they get their heads handed to them at the polls, time and again, until they run out of steam, and it becomes too late to salvage what's left and rebuild.

Good stuff. And if you're going to go down that road...

I think this trend began in earnest with Reagan, whether it was truly his intent or not. Conservatives took his tacit/inferred endorsement of "Greed is Good" and his quote "...government isn't the solution to our problems, government IS the problem" and turned those binary, simplistic, bumper sticker memes into literal political gospel.
.

 

[martybegan]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

As a strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings, I haven't given up, but I am worried that things have to get worse before they get better.

Implementing the failed, sophomoric, and inane dogma of “strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings” would in fact be things getting worse.

Rejecting this sort of moronic reactionaryism is an important part of making things better.

The fear, ignorance, and blind adherence to your failed dogma represents is what's indeed holding America back.

So many words, so little content. And considering we haven't tried my "dogma" in a century or so, how are you so sure it would "make things worse".

You are one of those people that equates wordiness with intellect, it's kind of sad actually.

Now go drive-by comment on some other thread.

 

[candycorn]

Here you thought you were all that and a bag of chips, eh?

Ok, how old are you using slang from 1988?

Talk to the hand girlfriend.

It reminds me of a story my friend told once. We went to High School together and she joined the US Army right after Graduation. She became an MP based at Fort Polk and was sent to Kuwait to staff a jail they had for soldiers who surrendered. The jail was little more than giant rectangles bordered with barbed wire and fences. Some of the prisoners would remove their pants and moon the women who were guarding them. "That'll teach em" they thought.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Here you thought you were all that and a bag of chips, eh?

Ok, how old are you using slang from 1988?

Talk to the hand girlfriend.

It reminds me of a story my friend told once. We went to High School together and she joined the US Army right after Graduation. She became an MP based at Fort Polk and was sent to Kuwait to staff a jail they had for soldiers who surrendered. The jail was little more than giant rectangles bordered with barbed wire and fences. Some of the prisoners would remove their pants and moon the women who were guarding them. "That'll teach em" they thought.

You're full of stories and full of shit. Now go bother someone who gives a rats ass about your worshiping of a worn out corrupt old bitch. Got it?

 

[Anathema]

Implementing the failed, sophomoric, and inane dogma of “strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings” would in fact be things getting worse.

Rejecting this sort of moronic reactionaryism is an important part of making things better.

In other words you believe the whole American Experiment was wrong from the beginning. It's people with that mentality who have destroyed this nation from the time of Lincoln straight through to today.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Blame his loss on a perverted system where the guy who loses the vote can win the election.

Its because the States actually elect the president via the electoral college, not the people directly. Have a problem with that? Amend the constitution.

Yes, it's stupid. If it's wrong to elect people based on who gets the most votes,

then every other election in the US, as far as I know, must be wrong.

Are they?

Most other elections are based on direct voting, with a plurality winning the election (some places do enforce run-offs for votes where the winner gets under 50% though).

Presidential voting is unique, and again, if you want to change it, the amendment process is out there. It's not like it hasn't been used to change the procedure before (or for that matter creating direct voting of senators).

Just because presidential voting is unique doesn't make it better.

Yes it does, it's part of the checks and balance of powers, as intended.

It's bad intention. All it does is unfairly distort the power of the individual citizen's vote based on the arbitrary condition of where a person happens to live.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Implementing the failed, sophomoric, and inane dogma of “strict constructional federalist with libertarian leanings” would in fact be things getting worse.

Rejecting this sort of moronic reactionaryism is an important part of making things better.

In other words you believe the whole American Experiment was wrong from the beginning. It's people with that mentality who have destroyed this nation from the time of Lincoln straight through to today.

"On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. They are masters too of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.--It may be said that the succeeding generation exercising in fact the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law has been expressly limited to 19 years only." - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison
Popular Basis of Political Authority: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

 

[ClosedCaption]

Here you thought you were all that and a bag of chips, eh?

Ok, how old are you using slang from 1988?

Talk to the hand girlfriend.

It reminds me of a story my friend told once. We went to High School together and she joined the US Army right after Graduation. She became an MP based at Fort Polk and was sent to Kuwait to staff a jail they had for soldiers who surrendered. The jail was little more than giant rectangles bordered with barbed wire and fences. Some of the prisoners would remove their pants and moon the women who were guarding them. "That'll teach em" they thought.

You're full of stories and full of shit. Now go bother someone who gives a rats ass about your worshiping of a worn out corrupt old bitch. Got it?

 

[Arizona Willie]

Give up? The GOP shellacked the left in the last election and polls show tight races for 2016...what a bunch of wishful thinking la la land BS

not national elections, winger witch.

It's really sad to see a supposedly grown woman being so freaking ignorant of how our republic works, there are no national elections, State elections are as high as it goes.

==========
You must be a Republican ... you can't quit telling half truths.

Yes State elections are as high as it goes --- but EVERY STATE IN THE UNION holds an election on the same day when we have Presidential elections.

Yes the States elect delegates to vote for President.

The actual numerical vote count --- DOESN'T COUNT.

That's how you can win the General popular vote and lose the election because the state delegates don't HAVE to vote the way their state did ( in many states ... some, I believe, are required to vote correctly ).

So, while technically there is no such thing as a national election --- there IS such a thing as a national election.

Because there are actually TWO elections.

One where the people vote and then one where the DELEGATES vote and that is the one that counts. In and the second election EVERY delegate from every state votes ( unless he dies first or is sick and can't in which case an alternate is supposed to come into play ).

Since every delegate from every state votes === that IS, in a sense, a national election.

 

[dannyboys]

I think the R's had one too many presidential candidates of the same ole same ole in the beginning, also, the R's gaining full control of the House and Senate and still being a ''do nothing Congress has come back to bite them, making Trump stand out, as an outsider, more appealing than normal.

cool. Now explain Bernie.

free college, appealing to college age students and the parents of college age student's pocketbooks.

There is no such thing as "free". Who the fuck is going to pay for the teachers? The books?
The facilities? The fucking toilet paper?
The fucking 'Makers'. Trouble is the 'Makers' aren't doing as much 'Making' as they used to.
So then who pays for all of Bernie's 'free shit'?
Sounds like what Obama promised the 'OJ' jurors' but never produced.

 

[dannyboys]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

when so-called conservatives are railing because they can't hang signs on their businesses saying "no blacks, no jews, no gays", in 2016, I don't think the party has anything it can do but run a salvage operation.

seriously, actual conservatives get left out in the cold with raving loons like that. better to let them go start their own party and re-build from there.

========

Republicans are like little 4 year old girls throwing a tantrum in the grocery store === laying on the floor === kicking their heels and screaming at the top of their voice === because Mommy won't buy them candy, because they can't make sure the Supreme Court stays packed in their favor.

Really?
I don't notice a single REP doing anything but wearing an ear-to-ear grin.
They all know they have the fucking DEMs by the short-hairs Constitutionally.
No REP Senator is about to commit political suicide by going against the REP Senate leadership.
They are a couple of 'shaky' REP Senators but they've always been that way. They have already been told enough if they lose their Senate seat the REP party will always have a financial cosy position for them. Not only that but these Senators will go down in the history of the REP party as those who were willing to fall on their swords for the party.
Anyway.
Debbie and the DNC have thrown the 2016 election in file 13 already.
They all know Hillary is going to quit for 'health reasons' two weeks before the FBI 'perp-walks' her out of her mansion.
Leaving Bernie to convince the majority of American's that there really is such a thing as "everyone gets free shit if I'm elected".

 

[ogibillm]

I think the R's had one too many presidential candidates of the same ole same ole in the beginning, also, the R's gaining full control of the House and Senate and still being a ''do nothing Congress has come back to bite them, making Trump stand out, as an outsider, more appealing than normal.

cool. Now explain Bernie.

free college, appealing to college age students and the parents of college age student's pocketbooks.

There is no such thing as "free". Who the fuck is going to pay for the teachers? The books?
The facilities? The fucking toilet paper?
The fucking 'Makers'. Trouble is the 'Makers' aren't doing as much 'Making' as they used to.
So then who pays for all of Bernie's 'free shit'?
Sounds like what Obama promised the 'OJ' jurors' but never produced.

you an always tell an idiot by the way the shout about 'makers'

 

[candycorn]

Here you thought you were all that and a bag of chips, eh?

Ok, how old are you using slang from 1988?

Talk to the hand girlfriend.

It reminds me of a story my friend told once. We went to High School together and she joined the US Army right after Graduation. She became an MP based at Fort Polk and was sent to Kuwait to staff a jail they had for soldiers who surrendered. The jail was little more than giant rectangles bordered with barbed wire and fences. Some of the prisoners would remove their pants and moon the women who were guarding them. "That'll teach em" they thought.

You're full of stories and full of shit. Now go bother someone who gives a rats ass about your worshiping of a worn out corrupt old bitch. Got it?

More like the next 15 years or however long she has left.