POLL: Serious question for conservatives: Have you given up?

[Mac1958]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

 

[Jackson]

I personally could not vote for someone that wants to give most every part our achieving mile stones free for the asking instead of earning these places in our life just for the asking.

Imagine, if you will...
...realizing going to college will raise your expected income, everyone wants this education. But they don't want to earn it, they will expect it free from the government. At the same time, while going to college, wanting to be an activist may interfere with class work and they want more time to complete assignments, or no assignment if they protest, remedial reading classes for those with low reading ability (then why are they there??)

...The people expect housing from the government, Section 8; free food for home, free breakfasts and lunches for children

...free healthcare, free glasses, monthly checks if your child attends special classes although you don't have to pay more to raise a child who attends this class.

I definitely feel if people are handicapped and cannot work, these gifts are warranted. But not if you use those checks for a 50 inch tv and you sit on you butt everyday watching it.

"As not what you country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.!!" JFK

When my son was getting ready for college, I had no college fund, nbut helped him with what I could which wasn't much. He worked 2 jobs while in college and got some scholarships. He even worked a hour away from school, getting up at 4am each morning.

He worked hard, kept his grades up. That work ethic transferred into an excellent employee once he graduated in college. Who ever said that hard work doesn't pay off, was wrong. His friends from highschool one still lives with parents, and some bounce from jobs to jobs.

We are weakening pur most valuable asset, our children. And the liberals aren't helping it.

 

[Jackson]

"The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country."

That's the most important point! I have said for years when Congress goes into the Senate and House, the leave their party hats at the door.

 

[Preacher]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

I haven't given up but I am also not a conservative. What have conservatives conserved? Other than their own fucking money which means NOTHING they haven't conserved SHIT! I am already planning an escape plan to leave America because I see what's coming unless of course there is a civil war or race war or the system collapses from printing so much money it eventually becomes worthless and can't pay its bills etc.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

 

[Slyhunter]

Tariff all imports and lower all taxes on citizens. Only non-citizens need to pay taxes.

 

[g5000]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Trumps policies are completely moderate. They won the GOP primaries and the general election.

Mac, name me a policy of Trump's that you consider "extreme". Give me the most extreme one.

$4.7 trillion annual spending. The most extreme annual spending in human history.

Trillion dollar deficits.

That's as anti-conservative extreme as it gets.

And you hacks turn two willfullly blind eyes to it.

 

[Slyhunter]

I could easily be wrong here, but I'm seeing little signs here and there that there are conservatives who are more in a salvage operation than a rescue operation.

In other words, I'm getting the impression that they feel the country is clearly going down a different road, and that the major battle has been lost. What some seem to be doing now is trying to salvage what elements of conservatism they can. But other than that, it's over.

Am I right or wrong?
.

Good question Mac, and now, it appears, you have a clear, and defining answer-)

Maybe you should be asking instead, if moderate Democrats exist any longer, lol!

I don't see many moderates anywhere. That's the problem - moderating voices are being flushed the minute they're heard.
.

Trumps policies are completely moderate. They won the GOP primaries and the general election.

Mac, name me a policy of Trump's that you consider "extreme". Give me the most extreme one.

$4.7 trillion annual spending. The most extreme annual spending in human history.

Trillion dollar deficits.

That's as anti-conservative extreme as it gets.

And you hacks turn two willfullly blind eyes to it.

Too late to stop spending. Spend like a rich man and then file bankruptcy is what we should do.

 

[Deno]

This is you dumb ass tards main problem....

Nope Tard....

A Tard is someone like you that elects and supports the likes of a hank johnson.....

 

[Deno]

Tea Party Conservatives like myself gave birth to Trump....

And trump has added trillions to the debt and a trillion to the deficit.

So, were you full of shit before or are you full of shit now?

Hey Dumb Ass...

The Tea Party stands for taxed enough already.....

Not only are you full of Shit...

You're Stupid....

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Funny thing. I think that a lot of Democrats would say they feel like the country is going down the wrong road and that the battle is lost.

 

[Mac1958]

Funny thing. I think that a lot of Democrats would say they feel like the country is going down the wrong road and that the battle is lost.

That's probably true. It seems to me that what we're seeing both here and globally is one of two things: A loud, ugly last gasp or a long term trend.

I think it's the former, but who knows for sure.
.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Funny thing. I think that a lot of Democrats would say they feel like the country is going down the wrong road and that the battle is lost.

That's probably true. It seems to me that what we're seeing both here and globally is one of two things: A loud, ugly last gasp or a long term trend.

I think it's the former, but who knows for sure.
.

See, I'm reaching the conclusion that it's decadence of American society. We've become petty, partisan, and have simply lost our values. The very mechanisms of our democratic republic that are supposed to be available to us as safeguards against have become weaponized for corrupt purposes. And we have no will to change it. Many people like to imply the US is heading toward our own version of the downfall of the Roman Empire. But I've always thought that was a flawed comparison. Rome's moral and cultural glory was in the days of the Republic. The creation of the Empire was itself the beginning of the end. The people accepted the Empire because of their own decadence, and the Emperors governed over its slow collapse, themselves just as decadent as the Roman people--but they were not decadent alone. The root cause of Rome's fall was decadence of the people, everything else was secondary.

The United States is not likely to ever take an actual Emperor. Our design and structure of government is different than that of Rome. The manifestations of public decadence will not be the same. In 21st century America it's extreme polar partisanship, Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump elections, an opposition party in Congress who refuses to impeach because it's more politically expedient to run against him in hopes that they can whip up their own flavor of populist demagoguery, and so on. Instead of Nero fiddling, we have the whole of the people who are fiddling while the country is burning.

 

[Mac1958]

Funny thing. I think that a lot of Democrats would say they feel like the country is going down the wrong road and that the battle is lost.

That's probably true. It seems to me that what we're seeing both here and globally is one of two things: A loud, ugly last gasp or a long term trend.

I think it's the former, but who knows for sure.
.

See, I'm reaching the conclusion that it's decadence of American society. We've become petty, partisan, and have simply lost our values. The very mechanisms of our democratic republic that are supposed to be available to us as safeguards against have become weaponized for corrupt purposes. And we have no will to change it. Many people like to imply the US is heading toward our own version of the downfall of the Roman Empire. But I've always thought that was a flawed comparison. Rome's moral and cultural glory was in the days of the Republic. The creation of the Empire was itself the beginning of the end. The people accepted the Empire because of their own decadence, and the Emperors governed over its slow collapse, themselves just as decadent as the Roman people--but they were not decadent alone. The root cause of Rome's fall was decadence of the people, everything else was secondary.

The United States is not likely to ever take an actual Emperor. Our design and structure of government is different than that of Rome. The manifestations of public decadence will not be the same. In 21st century America it's extreme polar partisanship, Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump elections, an opposition party in Congress who refuses to impeach because it's more politically expedient to run against him in hopes that they can whip up their own flavor of populist demagoguery, and so on. Instead of Nero fiddling, we have the whole of the people who are fiddling while the country is burning.

Very well put, I couldn't agree more.

At the heart of this is the fact that this is all a self-inflicted wound. A choice we're making.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Mac, someone asked you to name a policy that is extreme. Can you do that?

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

 

[Mac1958]

That's difficult, because I have to translate the word "extreme" -- a hyperbolic word I don't generally use -- into terminology that makes sense to me.

I truly, honestly, sincerely think that the most "extreme" things I'm seeing in politics are the narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, aggressive, binary, irrational behaviors of politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans. I think nothing in this country is more destructive than that, at this moment.

Why? Because THAT then translates into irrational positions, such as blind, reckless tax cutting; blind, reckless deregulation; the support for partial birth abortion; fantastical notions like the Green New Deal; political correctness; identity politics; white nationalism, and others.

The irrational (or in your terminology, "extreme") policy notions are created and enabled by the politicians, pundits, politicos and partisans who are clearly putting party and ideology over country.

There. That's the best I can do based on that question.
.

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

Deflection noted, thanks.

Look in the mirror, if you dare. Boilerplate talk radio responses won't work with me.
.

 

[imawhosure]

Jackson, Mac has spoken!

But I would like to ask Mac a few questions about his post, and I will start with this one--------------->

RECKLESS TAX CUTTING, your words!

QUESTION-------------> People have debated this one for years, and I understood the Lefts position, until a revelation was shown to me, that I am POSITIVE you are aware of, since you are in the financial industry. That revelation is called the LAFFER CURVE, and I am 100% positive, that you know exactly the theory, so I will not go into it.

And so, since the LAFFER curve is pretty accurate, have our tax rates dropped below the curve? I think not, and in fact, it actually could be dumped more!

The surprising thing about the LAFFER CURVE is----------------> Far Leftists are aware of its existence, and so is Europe. Even intelligent Socialists are aware of this curve, and have been repeatedly hit over the head with it. (if you Far Leftists reading this don't know what the Laffer Curve is, look it up)

So what did Europe do, which is the same thing far Leftists want to do here?

HIDE TAX RATES by using a VAT tax! Then they too can claim they are staying inside the Laffer Curve parameters, and tax the hell out of the middle class and poor people, to pay for their foibles!

I have not done the math myself, and to be honest, to calculate its affect is probably beyond my ability, most articles state that if "even the bottom rate of the proposed VAT was put in, the taxes paid by the middle class would go up by 34%, and those paid by the poor would rise by 157%."

And the rich? (those making over 250,000 a year) 4 to 6%!

It is why the far Left has to make Trump seem crazy, even if his policies were done by past Presidents. They need a way to institute things that give them MORE MONEY, and they know Americans are NOT going to sit and watch tax rate increases, so they are talking VAT!

The Laffer Curve was first posited on the back of a napkin over cocktails by hardcore conservative Art Laffer. And no, it has not proven to be "pretty accurate". For example, it most likely not work on this go-around.

No, I'm not for a VAT. I would have added four new, higher brackets up to 59.9% top end, assuming all current deductions and credits apply.
.

LOL Mac. I don't give a damn who wrote it, what they wrote it on, or the political party they were from. From all of the conclusions, has seemed pretty accurate to most people who have looked at it!

Trying to discern if ideas are good or bad, by the political bent of the author, gets us nowhere. In that case, all conservatives should not even listen to Liberal speakers, because obviously they must be wrong!

And by the way---------------> to pay for Europes free everything, they use VAT taxes, correct? Now then, knowing that most of these countries already pay 50% income tax, why don't you guesstimate for all these nice people what their REAL tax rate is for the middle class after the VAT, so that these governments can PAY for all this stuff, and most of them are STILL IN THE RED, and have a minimal defense department, lol.

Go ahead, GUESSTIMATE these peoples REAL tax rate, lol. But before you tell all these nice people on here your conclusion, tell them to sit down lest they fall down-)

The GOP remains in fantasy land regarding taxes. Tell you what: Let's agree to something.

The GOP just LOVES to pretend it's the party of fiscal responsibility, that it's all about lowering taxes & spending. But you and I BOTH know that's BULLSHIT, that it only has the BALLS to do ONE of those things.

So when the following happens, you can lecture me about this stuff: Let's see the GOP commit to cutting spending FIRST, and THEN cutting taxes.

Let's see your candidates run on making big cuts in Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Health Care. The EPA. The SEC. The Department of Education. All the cuts they'll need to make if they're honest.

CUTS FIRST.

THEN let's see, after they've been HONEST, if they WIN.

THEN we can talk.
.

Well, at least our peeps aren't trying to BRIBE the country with FREE EVERYTHING!

It is OUR money, NOT the governments. Who the hell are they to tell us we have to give some of OUR money to them, so they can give it to someone else?!?!?!?!?!

That is the problem with you people. You need OUR money to win YOUR races, and YOU know it!

Tell your people to quit offering free stuff, and see if THEY CAN WIN!

Deflection noted, thanks.

Look in the mirror, if you dare. Boilerplate talk radio responses won't work with me.
.

When you tell me where I lied, I will listen. You in one of your posts, are talking about raising tax rates to 59%. I didn't see you suggesting they cut spending 1st, and in fact being a Democrat means, you must be for free stuff for all, and NOTHING is free, we have to pay for it.

Obviously, you aren't as moderate as you thought, you just haven't fallen off the cliff yet, but the clown car with you in it, is heading that way.