POLL: Open the economy up and go back to work - Stay home and shutdown

[NoNukes]

W

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

We have flu vaccines.

Get one.

Yet despite those vaccines we still lose thousands every year and don't lose our shit over it.
The vaccines are no guarantee either as they are developed each year with the expected strains which are not always in line with actual strains that may spread in any particular year.
A clue.
Get one.

This is something new that there is no vaccine against. Do not let it reach Buffalo, Wyoming.
What is happening is probably nature doing a culling of the human race. We have overpopulated and are destroying the earth. Do not assist nature, it does not need our help.

there will be a vaccine for next year and there are already treatments that work. You may be right about nature culling the herd, It does happen every 100 years or so.

And it makes sense. If you were over here in Europe and seeing the people dying you would be more protective of the US. Forget the economy for a while, it is going to be bad everywhere.

 

[DrLove]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

All of the lock down measures that I've seen, have not been effective, as near as I can tell.
The clear example of this, would be Italy, which is again as near as I can tell, has the most strict and harsh lock down measure of any country.

Yet virus infections are still rising.

So.... given there doesn't seem to be much value in lock down, then we are left with a pointless policy that damages the entire economy. Corona, no matter which way you look at it, will be short term. Damage to the economy will be long term.

Now I do understand the logic, of trying to flatten the curve, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Again... not seeing that this is working.

Italy has flattened their curve. Ours is off the chain. Even with current measures, we're minimally a few weeks off. Reopen everything TOO soon and we risk everything INCLUDING the economy for the longterm.

Israeli Doctor in Italy Says New, Innovative Treatments ‘Flattening the Curve’ - Atlanta Jewish Times

Carmi Sheffer describes connecting patients to ventilators via scuba gear, placing them on stomachs, in battle with unpredictable virus which ‘spreads like wildfire’ among elderly.

atlantajewishtimes.timesofisrael.com

when is too soon? that is the question.

"Too soon" is before our curve flattens and the number of new cases become fewer and fewer - Not more and MORE.

Test Test TEST!!

 

[DrLove]

W

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

We have flu vaccines.

Get one.

Yet despite those vaccines we still lose thousands every year and don't lose our shit over it.
The vaccines are no guarantee either as they are developed each year with the expected strains which are not always in line with actual strains that may spread in any particular year.
A clue.
Get one.

This is something new that there is no vaccine against. Do not let it reach Buffalo, Wyoming.
What is happening is probably nature doing a culling of the human race. We have overpopulated and are destroying the earth. Do not assist nature, it does not need our help.

there will be a vaccine for next year and there are already treatments that work. You may be right about nature culling the herd, It does happen every 100 years or so.

MAYBE there will be a vaccine by the FALL of next year. Won't happen prior.

 

[Rye Catcher]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

Thank you. Be prepared the stupid people will claim these numbers are a hoax, and attack you, the messenger. Unless and until we get leadership from the Federal Government we must be prepared for the worst. That means do not listen to and act upon anything trump says or tweets; protect yourself and your family.

 

[NoNukes]

W

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

We have flu vaccines.

Get one.

Yet despite those vaccines we still lose thousands every year and don't lose our shit over it.
The vaccines are no guarantee either as they are developed each year with the expected strains which are not always in line with actual strains that may spread in any particular year.
A clue.
Get one.

This is something new that there is no vaccine against. Do not let it reach Buffalo, Wyoming.
What is happening is probably nature doing a culling of the human race. We have overpopulated and are destroying the earth. Do not assist nature, it does not need our help.

there will be a vaccine for next year and there are already treatments that work. You may be right about nature culling the herd, It does happen every 100 years or so.

MAYBE there will be a vaccine by the FALL of next year. Won't happen prior.

Be careful.

 

[NoNukes]

No its not. the curve is flattening,

WTF?

Pure bullshit

Do you just lie for the hell of it?

look at the CDC stats. turn off CNN, they are filling your little head with BS.

That's bullshit. If you have a link post it

Otherwise stop lying

CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead

Newly revealed projections warn of a massive potential toll in the U.S., but the worst-case estimate doesn’t factor in recent efforts to respond.

nymag.com

From the article:
A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country.

So much for your claim that the worst case scenario isn’t worse than influenza.

Thank you. Be prepared the stupid people will claim these numbers are a hoax, and attack you, the messenger. Unless and until we get leadership from the Federal Government we must be prepared for the worst. That means do not listen to and act upon anything trump says or tweets; protect yourself and your family.

When he lies so much, you cannot listen to anything he says.p The BBC is fact checking what he is saying so that no one is misinformed.

 

[DrLove]

W

What are we going to do in 6 months when the next flu season starts, shut down again? We have swung from one extreme to the other. Those at high risk should isolate, the rest of the country should get back to work. That's my opinion.

We have flu vaccines.

Get one.

Yet despite those vaccines we still lose thousands every year and don't lose our shit over it.
The vaccines are no guarantee either as they are developed each year with the expected strains which are not always in line with actual strains that may spread in any particular year.
A clue.
Get one.

This is something new that there is no vaccine against. Do not let it reach Buffalo, Wyoming.
What is happening is probably nature doing a culling of the human race. We have overpopulated and are destroying the earth. Do not assist nature, it does not need our help.

there will be a vaccine for next year and there are already treatments that work. You may be right about nature culling the herd, It does happen every 100 years or so.

MAYBE there will be a vaccine by the FALL of next year. Won't happen prior.

Be careful.

Hey man, if we get a vaccine tomorrow I'll be the happiest dude on the board.
Fauci says 12-18 months.
When in doubt, go with Doc Fauci

 

[NoNukes]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

All of the lock down measures that I've seen, have not been effective, as near as I can tell.
The clear example of this, would be Italy, which is again as near as I can tell, has the most strict and harsh lock down measure of any country.

Yet virus infections are still rising.

So.... given there doesn't seem to be much value in lock down, then we are left with a pointless policy that damages the entire economy. Corona, no matter which way you look at it, will be short term. Damage to the economy will be long term.

Now I do understand the logic, of trying to flatten the curve, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Again... not seeing that this is working.

Italy has flattened their curve. Ours is off the chain. Even with current measures, we're minimally a few weeks off. Reopen everything TOO soon and we risk everything INCLUDING the economy for the longterm.

Israeli Doctor in Italy Says New, Innovative Treatments ‘Flattening the Curve’ - Atlanta Jewish Times

Carmi Sheffer describes connecting patients to ventilators via scuba gear, placing them on stomachs, in battle with unpredictable virus which ‘spreads like wildfire’ among elderly.

atlantajewishtimes.timesofisrael.com

when is too soon? that is the question.

We will know when soon is here.

 

[sparky]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

 

[kyzr]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

I think that is all Trump was trying to do, not scare the pants off people so that they refuse to go to work even though its relatively safe.

Cuomo had an upbeat presser today.
1. More people leaving the hospital each of the last 8-days.
2. Fewer people entering the hospitals the last few days. (a trend or a blip? we'll know next week)

Not to jinx us, but it looks from the last few days that the US curve is bending downward to a peak, like the EU appears to be doing. We'll know that in the next week or two.

 

[colfax_m]

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

What do you mean incite panic? I just want truth, not lies.

 

[Desperado]

If America is to survive we all need to go back to work.....We cannot let China defeat us by staying home. Remember America as a whole is still 99.9% unaffected by the virus

 

[Seawytch]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

Mortality is going to be a lagging indicator. The death rate will peak after the peak of new cases. Given the incubation period and the fact that most people with bad COVID have a more of a progressive deterioration rather than immediate decompensation, our data is always going to be several weeks behind.

How many of the people whose deaths have been attributed to the virus would have died anyway because of their underlying medical problems? Maybe the virus hastened their demise, maybe it didn't. We have no way of knowing. The stats are therefore misleading and meaningless.

It’s an odd argument to make. Everyone is going to die sometime anyway so why attempt to prevent it?

More to the point, statistics is very good at determining things like standard mortality ratios to determine what the attributable mortality of a particular issue would be.

Simply acting like this is the seasonal flu or chicken pox is not going to end well.

So when an 85 year old with diabetes, heart disease, and COPD dies and tests positive for corona, what killed him? There is no way to know, that's my point.

As to the number killed, this is no where near as deadly as the annual flu and we never shut the country down for the flu.

If the 85 year old tests positive for COVID, develops fever, pulmonary infiltrates and respiratory distress requiring mechanical ventilation and codes due to hypoxemic cardiac arrest, then yes COVID killed them.

Just as a common cold kills thousands every year.

The common cold does not kill thousands each year, the flu does. It does not, however mean COVID 19 is the same as the flu.

Differences: COVID-19 and the Flu
Cause
COVID-19: Caused by one virus, the novel 2019 coronavirus, now called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2.

Flu: Caused by any of several different types and strains of influenza viruses.

Transmission
While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near.

Antiviral Medications
COVID-19: Antiviral medications and other therapies are currently being tested to see if they can address symptoms.

Flu: Antiviral medications can address symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.

Vaccine
COVID-19: No vaccine is available at this time, though it is in progress.

Flu: A vaccine is available and effective to prevent some of the most dangerous types or to reduce the severity of the flu.

COVID-19

COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that emerged in December 2019. Learn about symptoms, diagnosis, treatment and prevention.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Not one person has said that flu and covid 19 are "the same". What has been pointed out many times, that you refuse to acknowledge, is that the flu kills more people every year than this virus ever will.

we will have a covid vaccine for next season, we have flu vaccines that work very well but we still have many flu deaths, maybe because of the fake news about vaccines and autism and the allegations that the govt is "putting something in the vaccines". both are untrue and based on ignorance and political bullshit.

The flu does not hit all of the populace at once as this virus is doing. The flu does not terrify ER doctors and nurses as this virus does. Hospitals are not overwhelmed with patients. Make shift morgues are not set up outside hospitals in a normal flu season.

Stay home, flatten the curve.

 

[Seawytch]

As to the number killed, this is no where near as deadly as the annual flu and we never shut the country down for the flu.

There’s a lot of logical problems with this statement.

For starters, the first case of COVID showed up here about two months ago and is still growing at a rapid rate. You can not compare annual influenza deaths to the cumulative number of COVID deaths. Remember, we lost 500 people yesterday. And that number of deaths per day is only increasing so far.

Second, we have put into place unprecedented restrictions, which we all hope will be effective. I fear that if they are effective at limiting the spread of the virus, people will assume the restrictions were not necessary in the first place because COVID wasn’t “all that bad” and ignore the reason for that.

run for the hills, everybody panic, hoard toilet paper, hide from your neighbors, run, run, run its gonna kill us all=====================yaaaaa


happy now?

No. Why does everything need to be one extreme or the other?

its you on the left that are screaming for the extremes. I am pleading for common sense.

I could say the same about “you on the right”. (Maybe we will quarantine all of New York, right?)

You are mischaracterizing me by assuming that I am saying something I’m not.

a quarantine of NYC may be appropriate for a while. I am just waiting for an outbreak in the homeless in LA and SFO where there is no sanitation and human waste is running in the gutters. Then what? Whose fault would that be?

Homelessness is everywhere, you asshole.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

All of the lock down measures that I've seen, have not been effective, as near as I can tell.
The clear example of this, would be Italy, which is again as near as I can tell, has the most strict and harsh lock down measure of any country.

Yet virus infections are still rising.

So.... given there doesn't seem to be much value in lock down, then we are left with a pointless policy that damages the entire economy. Corona, no matter which way you look at it, will be short term. Damage to the economy will be long term.

Now I do understand the logic, of trying to flatten the curve, and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Again... not seeing that this is working.

Italy has flattened their curve. Ours is off the chain. Even with current measures, we're minimally a few weeks off. Reopen everything TOO soon and we risk everything INCLUDING the economy for the longterm.

Israeli Doctor in Italy Says New, Innovative Treatments ‘Flattening the Curve’ - Atlanta Jewish Times

Carmi Sheffer describes connecting patients to ventilators via scuba gear, placing them on stomachs, in battle with unpredictable virus which ‘spreads like wildfire’ among elderly.

atlantajewishtimes.timesofisrael.com

when is too soon? that is the question.

Now is too soon. Revisit in 2-4 weeks.

 

[NoNukes]

You saying there is a vaccine?

it appears so....

Annual deaths from influenza are 20-60k. It would take 20 years to get to 1.7 million deaths.

As you can see, your claim that COVID isn’t going to kill as many as influenza is unsupported.

so why incite the public into a panic, and literally stop the productive worker ant(s) from producing?
~S~

So it is not spread as easily. Pay attention to what is going on in the world.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

Mortality is going to be a lagging indicator. The death rate will peak after the peak of new cases. Given the incubation period and the fact that most people with bad COVID have a more of a progressive deterioration rather than immediate decompensation, our data is always going to be several weeks behind.

How many of the people whose deaths have been attributed to the virus would have died anyway because of their underlying medical problems? Maybe the virus hastened their demise, maybe it didn't. We have no way of knowing. The stats are therefore misleading and meaningless.

It’s an odd argument to make. Everyone is going to die sometime anyway so why attempt to prevent it?

More to the point, statistics is very good at determining things like standard mortality ratios to determine what the attributable mortality of a particular issue would be.

Simply acting like this is the seasonal flu or chicken pox is not going to end well.

So when an 85 year old with diabetes, heart disease, and COPD dies and tests positive for corona, what killed him? There is no way to know, that's my point.

As to the number killed, this is no where near as deadly as the annual flu and we never shut the country down for the flu.

If the 85 year old tests positive for COVID, develops fever, pulmonary infiltrates and respiratory distress requiring mechanical ventilation and codes due to hypoxemic cardiac arrest, then yes COVID killed them.

Just as a common cold kills thousands every year.

The common cold does not kill thousands each year, the flu does. It does not, however mean COVID 19 is the same as the flu.

Differences: COVID-19 and the Flu
Cause
COVID-19: Caused by one virus, the novel 2019 coronavirus, now called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2.

Flu: Caused by any of several different types and strains of influenza viruses.

Transmission
While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near.

Antiviral Medications
COVID-19: Antiviral medications and other therapies are currently being tested to see if they can address symptoms.

Flu: Antiviral medications can address symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.

Vaccine
COVID-19: No vaccine is available at this time, though it is in progress.

Flu: A vaccine is available and effective to prevent some of the most dangerous types or to reduce the severity of the flu.

COVID-19

COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that emerged in December 2019. Learn about symptoms, diagnosis, treatment and prevention.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Not one person has said that flu and covid 19 are "the same". What has been pointed out many times, that you refuse to acknowledge, is that the flu kills more people every year than this virus ever will.

we will have a covid vaccine for next season, we have flu vaccines that work very well but we still have many flu deaths, maybe because of the fake news about vaccines and autism and the allegations that the govt is "putting something in the vaccines". both are untrue and based on ignorance and political bullshit.

The flu does not hit all of the populace at once as this virus is doing. The flu does not terrify ER doctors and nurses as this virus does. Hospitals are not overwhelmed with patients. Make shift morgues are not set up outside hospitals in a normal flu season.

Stay home, flatten the curve.

Nope. 250,000-500,000 deaths a year from the flu. 5 million serious cases.

Return of pandemic H1N1 influenza virus - PMC

Influenza pandemics are usually caused by the re-assortment of several influenza viruses, results in the emergence of new influenza virus strains that can infect the entire population. These pandemic strains, as well as seasonal influenza viruses, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Lesh]

I'm seeing a lot of discussion but can't figure out who has the majority.

To re-open the US economy in a limited fashion around Easter Monday (4/13/20) with masks, social distancing, no sports venues, no cruises, or major crowds, just minimal re-opening businesses. The object is to keep as many companies in-business as possible.

Trump wants to reopen US businesses in weeks 'not months' even as deaths rise – as it happened

Democrats voted to oppose motion on the coronavirus stimulus bill, while Dr Anthony Fauci and others warn against scaling back social distancing

www.theguardian.com

Or, keep the economy and businesses shutdown until the coronavirus (COVID-19) is under control as recommended by the doctors, even if that means that many businesses would NOT re-open due to the lost revenue and bankruptcy.

Let the cowards stay home. All welfare and unemployment checks denied. They can pretend their in Venezuela and eat their pets.

Not to jinx us, but it looks like the virus is peaking and hopefully starts to wane from here.
1. The EU hit their peak number of 30,000 new cases per day 3/26 & 3/27. Lets hope they continue dropping.
2. The US should be close to our new case peak now, we should know early next week for sure.

I'm okay keeping non-essential workers home until the new 15-minute test rolls out and they issue medications to take. With luck we could all be working by late April, otherwise it could be late May.
We need this thing gone by August or football season is toast.

I wish you were correct but you're not. Deaths have doubled in just two days

Mortality is going to be a lagging indicator. The death rate will peak after the peak of new cases. Given the incubation period and the fact that most people with bad COVID have a more of a progressive deterioration rather than immediate decompensation, our data is always going to be several weeks behind.

How many of the people whose deaths have been attributed to the virus would have died anyway because of their underlying medical problems? Maybe the virus hastened their demise, maybe it didn't. We have no way of knowing. The stats are therefore misleading and meaningless.

It’s an odd argument to make. Everyone is going to die sometime anyway so why attempt to prevent it?

More to the point, statistics is very good at determining things like standard mortality ratios to determine what the attributable mortality of a particular issue would be.

Simply acting like this is the seasonal flu or chicken pox is not going to end well.

So when an 85 year old with diabetes, heart disease, and COPD dies and tests positive for corona, what killed him? There is no way to know, that's my point.

As to the number killed, this is no where near as deadly as the annual flu and we never shut the country down for the flu.

If the 85 year old tests positive for COVID, develops fever, pulmonary infiltrates and respiratory distress requiring mechanical ventilation and codes due to hypoxemic cardiac arrest, then yes COVID killed them.

Just as a common cold kills thousands every year.

The common cold does not kill thousands each year, the flu does. It does not, however mean COVID 19 is the same as the flu.

Differences: COVID-19 and the Flu
Cause
COVID-19: Caused by one virus, the novel 2019 coronavirus, now called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2.

Flu: Caused by any of several different types and strains of influenza viruses.

Transmission
While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near.

Antiviral Medications
COVID-19: Antiviral medications and other therapies are currently being tested to see if they can address symptoms.

Flu: Antiviral medications can address symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.

Vaccine
COVID-19: No vaccine is available at this time, though it is in progress.

Flu: A vaccine is available and effective to prevent some of the most dangerous types or to reduce the severity of the flu.

COVID-19

COVID-19 is the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that emerged in December 2019. Learn about symptoms, diagnosis, treatment and prevention.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

Not one person has said that flu and covid 19 are "the same". What has been pointed out many times, that you refuse to acknowledge, is that the flu kills more people every year than this virus ever will.

we will have a covid vaccine for next season, we have flu vaccines that work very well but we still have many flu deaths, maybe because of the fake news about vaccines and autism and the allegations that the govt is "putting something in the vaccines". both are untrue and based on ignorance and political bullshit.

The flu does not hit all of the populace at once as this virus is doing. The flu does not terrify ER doctors and nurses as this virus does. Hospitals are not overwhelmed with patients. Make shift morgues are not set up outside hospitals in a normal flu season.

Stay home, flatten the curve.

Nope. 250,000-500,000 deaths a year from the flu. 5 million serious cases.

Return of pandemic H1N1 influenza virus - PMC

Influenza pandemics are usually caused by the re-assortment of several influenza viruses, results in the emergence of new influenza virus strains that can infect the entire population. These pandemic strains, as well as seasonal influenza viruses, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What's your stupid point?

This is on TOP of that...is more contagious and more lethal

 

[justoffal]

It's going to be at least a month. That's conservative. The health Care is being overrun. This cannot be accepted.

Well, I mean... when you say "this cannot be accepted"... that's a bit ridiculous. If Corona was 10 times more dangerous, we'd have millions of people in the hospital.

What exactly would you suggest we do? Just hand out degrees, and assign people as doctors and nurses? Just have people in sleeping bags in gyms?

You can't just magically create more health care service out of thin air.

And maybe you missed it, but you can't simply "buy" it either. Like I said, you can't just knight them with a sword, and deem them competent health care staff.

Even if we could.... do you really want to bankrupt the entire country like Greece? We don't have trillions of dollars laying around, because you gave it all out in welfare entitlements, and all your green energy programs, and infrastructure programs.

So what exactly would you have us do? Just borrow non-stop until the government implodes, and then all the hospitals dependent on government money close... like Greece, and Venezuela, and others? You think it's bad when it's overwhelmed..... get ready if you pay for it with government money, and the money runs out.

So really... I'd like to hear what your plan is, to have a health care system that can magically take care of 50 Million people. What is it?

Cloward and Piven

 

[Andylusion]

It's going to be at least a month. That's conservative. The health Care is being overrun. This cannot be accepted.

Well, I mean... when you say "this cannot be accepted"... that's a bit ridiculous. If Corona was 10 times more dangerous, we'd have millions of people in the hospital.

What exactly would you suggest we do? Just hand out degrees, and assign people as doctors and nurses? Just have people in sleeping bags in gyms?

You can't just magically create more health care service out of thin air.

And maybe you missed it, but you can't simply "buy" it either. Like I said, you can't just knight them with a sword, and deem them competent health care staff.

Even if we could.... do you really want to bankrupt the entire country like Greece? We don't have trillions of dollars laying around, because you gave it all out in welfare entitlements, and all your green energy programs, and infrastructure programs.

So what exactly would you have us do? Just borrow non-stop until the government implodes, and then all the hospitals dependent on government money close... like Greece, and Venezuela, and others? You think it's bad when it's overwhelmed..... get ready if you pay for it with government money, and the money runs out.

So really... I'd like to hear what your plan is, to have a health care system that can magically take care of 50 Million people. What is it?

Cloward and Piven

Worked so well in Greece, didn't it?