[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

The law in every state is YOU are responsible for ALL of your health care bills. YOU have to pay them.
The relationship between you and your insurance company HAS NOTHING to do with the relationship between you and ALL health care providers regardless of what financial arrangement insurers have with medical providers. If you have health insurance that does not mean YOU are not responsible for 100% of all of the health care bills you run up. Your agreement with your health insurance company is 100% separate from your agreement with health care providers and each are a third NON party to each other in all financial agreements, arrangements and contracts.
Too bad Democrats and most Republicans do not know this.

What you are trying desperately to ignore is emergency room and urgent care treatment and medical bankruptcy. The two things that allow people to avoid responsibility for their own healthcare costs. That allow them to get others to pay their bills.

ACA does nothing to address that or stop those that go there now.
You are the one ignoring that fact.
Tens of millions will STILL be uninsured and going there 10 years from now ACA or not.
You have this pipe dream that ACA changes people's behavior.
Show me where ONE, JUST ONE government program has changed the behavior of citizens.

Every law changes people's behavior by placing undesirable consequences on the behavior that it makes illegal.

Same with ACA. If you're an irresponsible person who'd just as soon let others pay for your healthcare should medical attention be needed, there are now financial consequences.

Conservatives are so afraid of personal responsibility that they've wasted five years of time, energy and money fighting it with every dirty trick in politics.

But, they failed.

 

[RKMBrown]

You are charged a penalty if you don't buy insurance. A tax is something easily definable. Just because the IRS charges you money doesn't mean it's tax. You think the late fee for not paying taxes is a tax? Is the interest on a mortgage a tax? Tax tax tax everything's a tax!

No. You are mandated to buy insurance and if you don't you pay a penalty.

Said another way you are free to buy insurance or not. If you don't buy insurance you get taxed, if you do buy insurance you are are exempted from this new tax just like all the other taxes you are exempted from if you meet other exemptions. This one called the mandate(-tax) is but one of six new taxes on health care in the "affordable health care act" that is not affordable either. Should we say it's UN-constitutional because they lied about it being affordable? This fascination with the term mandate is really quite silly.

Am I mandated to buy a house? Why not? If I don't borrow money for a house have to pay more in taxes, which is in effect a mandate that we get loans for houses or face the home loan mandate in the the form of additional taxes.

You get a credit on taxes the year you but a house. Incredibly out of context point by you.

If you buy a car, you buy car insurance for he car. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying car insurance.

If you buy a house, you can buy flood insurance. You don't face a penalty for not buying flood insurance.

If you buy an expensive antique you buy insurance in case it's ever broken. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying accident insurance for antiques.

But wait! If you are healthy and don't feel you need insurance, you face a "tax" penalty. Why? Because you've been mandated to do it so that those less fortunate can receive tax subsidies. My 'fascination' appears only to be that I point out the obvious while you allow yourself to think that not borrowing money for a house (which means you paid cash if you bought the house) is the same as being forced to pay for other peoples insurance.

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?

It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

 

[PMZ]

Said another way you are free to buy insurance or not. If you don't buy insurance you get taxed, if you do buy insurance you are are exempted from this new tax just like all the other taxes you are exempted from if you meet other exemptions. This one called the mandate(-tax) is but one of six new taxes on health care in the "affordable health care act" that is not affordable either. Should we say it's UN-constitutional because they lied about it being affordable? This fascination with the term mandate is really quite silly.

Am I mandated to buy a house? Why not? If I don't borrow money for a house have to pay more in taxes, which is in effect a mandate that we get loans for houses or face the home loan mandate in the the form of additional taxes.

You get a credit on taxes the year you but a house. Incredibly out of context point by you.

If you buy a car, you buy car insurance for he car. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying car insurance.

If you buy a house, you can buy flood insurance. You don't face a penalty for not buying flood insurance.

If you buy an expensive antique you buy insurance in case it's ever broken. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying accident insurance for antiques.

But wait! If you are healthy and don't feel you need insurance, you face a "tax" penalty. Why? Because you've been mandated to do it so that those less fortunate can receive tax subsidies. My 'fascination' appears only to be that I point out the obvious while you allow yourself to think that not borrowing money for a house (which means you paid cash if you bought the house) is the same as being forced to pay for other peoples insurance.

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?

It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If I were you I'd drop my health insurance in protest. You're right. Nobody can make you do anything.

And I think that exposure to the choices that poor people face daily would teach you some good useful lessons.

 

[dcraelin]

Inaccurate.

You are required to buy health care insurance because we almost all have health care expenses. And, as a society, we've decided that we would rather pay for emergency care than have people dying in the streets. Or allow you to declare bankruptcy if you can't pay your bills.

So if you decide to be irresponsible, we will collect funds from you to cover your virtually inevitable expenses.

We will avoid rewarding irresponsibility and will require personal responsibility.

Just like every other law does.

I have health insurance. You have propaganda and buy into whatever it is that comes out of the left.

You need health care insurance adequate to insure that you've put yourself in a position to be personally responsible for your health care costs. The advantage to you is to reduce the likelihood that you will have to pay for other's health care in your insurance bill.

The use of Government power to provide private profit can be abusive.

one of the contributing factors of the Revolution in France was the contracting out of taxes and the monopolies on commodities like salt.

(from wikipedia)
Collections of taxes, such as the extremely unpopular salt tax, the gabelle, were contracted to private collectors ("tax farmers"), who, like all farmers, preoccupied themselves with making their holdings grow. So, they collected, quite legitimately, far more than required, remitted the tax to the State, and pocketed the remainder.

at a certain point people where buying a lot of salt on the black market. So the government said you have to buy salt.

 

[PMZ]

Here's an insightful video of what the actual results are of electing Republicans to Congress.

If it makes you proud, vote Republican.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...retirement-kimmel-colbert-punchlines/3876951/

 

[ShawnChris13]

Said another way you are free to buy insurance or not. If you don't buy insurance you get taxed, if you do buy insurance you are are exempted from this new tax just like all the other taxes you are exempted from if you meet other exemptions. This one called the mandate(-tax) is but one of six new taxes on health care in the "affordable health care act" that is not affordable either. Should we say it's UN-constitutional because they lied about it being affordable? This fascination with the term mandate is really quite silly.



Am I mandated to buy a house? Why not? If I don't borrow money for a house have to pay more in taxes, which is in effect a mandate that we get loans for houses or face the home loan mandate in the the form of additional taxes.

You get a credit on taxes the year you but a house. Incredibly out of context point by you.



If you buy a car, you buy car insurance for he car. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying car insurance.



If you buy a house, you can buy flood insurance. You don't face a penalty for not buying flood insurance.



If you buy an expensive antique you buy insurance in case it's ever broken. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying accident insurance for antiques.



But wait! If you are healthy and don't feel you need insurance, you face a "tax" penalty. Why? Because you've been mandated to do it so that those less fortunate can receive tax subsidies. My 'fascination' appears only to be that I point out the obvious while you allow yourself to think that not borrowing money for a house (which means you paid cash if you bought the house) is the same as being forced to pay for other peoples insurance.

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?



It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

 

[PMZ]

You get a credit on taxes the year you but a house. Incredibly out of context point by you.



If you buy a car, you buy car insurance for he car. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying car insurance.



If you buy a house, you can buy flood insurance. You don't face a penalty for not buying flood insurance.



If you buy an expensive antique you buy insurance in case it's ever broken. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying accident insurance for antiques.



But wait! If you are healthy and don't feel you need insurance, you face a "tax" penalty. Why? Because you've been mandated to do it so that those less fortunate can receive tax subsidies. My 'fascination' appears only to be that I point out the obvious while you allow yourself to think that not borrowing money for a house (which means you paid cash if you bought the house) is the same as being forced to pay for other peoples insurance.

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?



It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

The BOGEYMAN! If the country acts in personally responsible ways, the Republican closet monsters will burst out and consume us all. Millions of walking dead sucking our souls right out our eyeballs and leaving our soulless empty husk forever conservative. A fate much worse than death.

 

[PMZ]

A little insight into the health insurance industry.

I called several insurance companies recently asking questions about their Medicare Advantage plans. One took my questions as an opportunity, unbeknownst to me, to enroll me in their plan for next year and disenroll me in my preferred plan from another company. It took me half a day yesterday and talking to a couple of dozen people, to undo what their shenanigans did, and restore my choice.

There are some people my age and older that would have been unable to understand and solve that problem.

A consequence of make more money regardless of the cost to others.

 

[ShawnChris13]

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?



It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

The BOGEYMAN! If the country acts in personally responsible ways, the Republican closet monsters will burst out and consume us all. Millions of walking dead sucking our souls right out our eyeballs and leaving our soulless empty husk forever conservative. A fate much worse than death.

Republicans can say whatever they want, or whatever it is you want them to say. Just remember your bogeyman take when health care costs skyrocket in a few quarters.

 

[PMZ]

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

The BOGEYMAN! If the country acts in personally responsible ways, the Republican closet monsters will burst out and consume us all. Millions of walking dead sucking our souls right out our eyeballs and leaving our soulless empty husk forever conservative. A fate much worse than death.

Republicans can say whatever they want, or whatever it is you want them to say. Just remember your bogeyman take when health care costs skyrocket in a few quarters.

How does insurance regulation affect health care delivery costs?

 

[ShawnChris13]

The BOGEYMAN! If the country acts in personally responsible ways, the Republican closet monsters will burst out and consume us all. Millions of walking dead sucking our souls right out our eyeballs and leaving our soulless empty husk forever conservative. A fate much worse than death.

Republicans can say whatever they want, or whatever it is you want them to say. Just remember your bogeyman take when health care costs skyrocket in a few quarters.

How does insurance regulation affect health care delivery costs?

Regulation has never been proven to affect the costs of the products being regulated? Is that what you're saying?

Or are you saying that health insurance isn't related to the health industry, therefore having no effect from one to the other?

Because both are incorrect.

 

[PMZ]

Republicans can say whatever they want, or whatever it is you want them to say. Just remember your bogeyman take when health care costs skyrocket in a few quarters.

How does insurance regulation affect health care delivery costs?

Regulation has never been proven to affect the costs of the products being regulated? Is that what you're saying?

Or are you saying that health insurance isn't related to the health industry, therefore having no effect from one to the other?

Because both are incorrect.

The impact that the ACA will have on health care costs is to reduce emergency room and urgent care treatment of non emergencies as that is the most expensive and least effective approach. And to get people who had no access to health care prior to ACA, in the mainstream of preventative and effective care.

It will reduce medical bankruptcies.

It will lower insurance cost by spreading insurance company overhead over a broader base and empower competitive shopping through the Exchanges. Which, I would judge after using similar capabilities on Medicare.gov, as very effective.

 

[ShawnChris13]

How does insurance regulation affect health care delivery costs?

Regulation has never been proven to affect the costs of the products being regulated? Is that what you're saying?

Or are you saying that health insurance isn't related to the health industry, therefore having no effect from one to the other?

Because both are incorrect.

The impact that the ACA will have on health care costs is to reduce emergency room and urgent care treatment of non emergencies as that is the most expensive and least effective approach. And to get people who had no access to health care prior to ACA, in the mainstream of preventative and effective care.

It will reduce medical bankruptcies.

It will lower insurance cost by spreading insurance company overhead over a broader base and empower competitive shopping through the Exchanges. Which, I would judge after using similar capabilities on Medicare.gov, as very effective.

Agree to disagree then. They mathed wrong with this law and the numbers aren't going to add up.

 

[PMZ]

Regulation has never been proven to affect the costs of the products being regulated? Is that what you're saying?

Or are you saying that health insurance isn't related to the health industry, therefore having no effect from one to the other?

Because both are incorrect.

The impact that the ACA will have on health care costs is to reduce emergency room and urgent care treatment of non emergencies as that is the most expensive and least effective approach. And to get people who had no access to health care prior to ACA, in the mainstream of preventative and effective care.

It will reduce medical bankruptcies.

It will lower insurance cost by spreading insurance company overhead over a broader base and empower competitive shopping through the Exchanges. Which, I would judge after using similar capabilities on Medicare.gov, as very effective.

Agree to disagree then. They mathed wrong with this law and the numbers aren't going to add up.

And the evidence of this prophesy is?

 

[RKMBrown]

You get a credit on taxes the year you but a house. Incredibly out of context point by you.



If you buy a car, you buy car insurance for he car. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying car insurance.



If you buy a house, you can buy flood insurance. You don't face a penalty for not buying flood insurance.



If you buy an expensive antique you buy insurance in case it's ever broken. You don't face a tax penalty for not buying accident insurance for antiques.



But wait! If you are healthy and don't feel you need insurance, you face a "tax" penalty. Why? Because you've been mandated to do it so that those less fortunate can receive tax subsidies. My 'fascination' appears only to be that I point out the obvious while you allow yourself to think that not borrowing money for a house (which means you paid cash if you bought the house) is the same as being forced to pay for other peoples insurance.

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?



It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

Wrong it's not a parking ticket which is a minor offense. A parking ticket goes on your record. Not paying insurance does not go on your record. There is no crime. It is not a mandate in the crime sense, it is a mandate in the tax deduction sense. If you adhere to the mandated behavior you pay less tax, if you don't adhere to the mandated behavior you pay more tax. You are trying to invent that it is a criminal act if you don't buy insurance, but that's just not true. Just because they called it a "mandate" does not mean it's a "mandate." Just because they called the act the affordable care act, does not mean it's affordable. Again there is no mandate forcing you to buy insurance. Just as there is no mandate forcing you to work. However, if you do work you pay personal income taxes at the specified rates that now includes a check box for whether or not you purchased insurance, just like the check box for dependents. If you don't have dependents you don't get the exemptions, if you did not buy insurance your tax rate is higher than if you did buy insurance. Same goes for AMT if you sinned by earning to much money you get penalized with additional taxes above and beyond the basic rates. This is the same thing. You are being punished with additional taxes if you do not adhere to the government recommended behavior of earning less and spending more in government approved ways.

Further you don't have to buy insurance. If you have no income there is no fine. There is only a fine based on your amount of income, further they will give you subsidy checks for your health insurance if your income is low just like any other form of welfare.

 

[RKMBrown]

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

Sort of off topic. But this data is already being used in aggregate by the feds, and is already being accessed illegally by the feds in certain situations with and without court orders/approvals. We can thank the Un-Patriotic act for letting that cat out of the bag.

We need a Reagan to fix this, that or there will likely be bloodshed and marshal law in our time.

 

[ShawnChris13]

The impact that the ACA will have on health care costs is to reduce emergency room and urgent care treatment of non emergencies as that is the most expensive and least effective approach. And to get people who had no access to health care prior to ACA, in the mainstream of preventative and effective care.

It will reduce medical bankruptcies.

It will lower insurance cost by spreading insurance company overhead over a broader base and empower competitive shopping through the Exchanges. Which, I would judge after using similar capabilities on Medicare.gov, as very effective.

Agree to disagree then. They mathed wrong with this law and the numbers aren't going to add up.

And the evidence of this prophesy is?

I offer the same evidence given by the counter argument to my points: time will tell.

I cannot predict the future, only make assumptions based on what I see.

Such as: a large number of young enrolled must purchase insurance in order to lower costs. 18-26 remains under their parents' coverage which will give that age group better rates. Cutting out that many young people isn't going to help their math. We will have to wait for the market to adjust before I can be deemed correct or incorrect for surety.

 

[ShawnChris13]

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

Sort of off topic. But this data is already being used in aggregate by the feds, and is already being accessed illegally by the feds in certain situations with and without court orders/approvals. We can thank the Un-Patriotic act for letting that cat out of the bag.



We need a Reagan to fix this, that or there will likely be bloodshed and marshal law in our time.

Definitely off topic and I agree with your points. I would prefer an Andrew Jackson (not because of his party affiliation but his merits of action) rather than a Reagan.

 

[PMZ]

How are tax deductions out of context when talking about the new ACA income tax that you are exempt from if you purchased health insurance?



It is not a "CRIMINAL" act to not buy health insurance, the fine is not for a crime, or traffic offense, or other type of offense. Further if you have no "INCOME" you are not subject to this new personal income tax. Just because they gave it the retarded name "mandate" does not mean there is a law forcing you to buy insurance, any more than they are forcing you to work by taxing your income. If you are stupid enough to work you have to pay the tax on it. If you borrow money for a house you can deduct interest from your taxes, if you have proof of health insurance you can deduct that from your taxes. Out of context? ROFL

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

Wrong it's not a parking ticket which is a minor offense. A parking ticket goes on your record. Not paying insurance does not go on your record. There is no crime. It is not a mandate in the crime sense, it is a mandate in the tax deduction sense. If you adhere to the mandated behavior you pay less tax, if you don't adhere to the mandated behavior you pay more tax. You are trying to invent that it is a criminal act if you don't buy insurance, but that's just not true. Just because they called it a "mandate" does not mean it's a "mandate." Just because they called the act the affordable care act, does not mean it's affordable. Again there is no mandate forcing you to buy insurance. Just as there is no mandate forcing you to work. However, if you do work you pay personal income taxes at the specified rates that now includes a check box for whether or not you purchased insurance, just like the check box for dependents. If you don't have dependents you don't get the exemptions, if you did not buy insurance your tax rate is higher than if you did buy insurance. Same goes for AMT if you sinned by earning to much money you get penalized with additional taxes above and beyond the basic rates. This is the same thing. You are being punished with additional taxes if you do not adhere to the government recommended behavior of earning less and spending more in government approved ways.

Further you don't have to buy insurance. If you have no income there is no fine. There is only a fine based on your amount of income, further they will give you subsidy checks for your health insurance if your income is low just like any other form of welfare.

Lots of made up stuff here.

"Not paying insurance does not go on your record."

So you are saying that the mandate will not be enforced? I think that it will be when you pay your income tax. And what you will be taxed will be part of IRS records.

"Just because they called it a "mandate" does not mean it's a "mandate."

A mandate means something that you are required to or suffer the consequences. All laws are mandates.

"Again there is no mandate forcing you to buy insurance."

No law can force anyone to do anything. That's why, for instance, there are murders. After a crime has been committed, the convicted perp is forced into paying the prescribed penalty.

"Same goes for AMT if you sinned by earning to much money you get penalized with additional taxes above and beyond the basic rates."

You made the choice to make more despite the fact that you knew the you'd have to share it with your country. You knew that up front. If you object, you have clear alternatives. Don't make the money or make it somewhere else.

"Further you don't have to buy insurance."

You don't have to refrain from murder either.

 

[RKMBrown]

If you don't buy insurance, you pay a 'tax'. If you do buy insurance, you pay taxes on that insurance, plus the cost of the insurance. Just like your cell phone bill when you take at those small charges that provide free phones for people.

Buying insurance doesn't mean you're exempt from a tax because you're still paying taxes every time you pay your insurance premium. You're not exempt from anything. There is no extra check in the box that says "I have insurance and it's tax free". Instead you pay a FINE no different than a parking ticket for not having health insurance. It's a mandate which creates a penalty that is issued as a fine by the IRS which funds more government programs with each person that doesn't buy health insurance.

Soon your medical records are going to be part of your tax return as well. Once this ACA takes root and people keep having brilliant ideas that will happen. Right now you need a secret clearance in the military to view medical records, but I guarantee that the left will soon make those records available to anybody for some public health BS.

Wrong it's not a parking ticket which is a minor offense. A parking ticket goes on your record. Not paying insurance does not go on your record. There is no crime. It is not a mandate in the crime sense, it is a mandate in the tax deduction sense. If you adhere to the mandated behavior you pay less tax, if you don't adhere to the mandated behavior you pay more tax. You are trying to invent that it is a criminal act if you don't buy insurance, but that's just not true. Just because they called it a "mandate" does not mean it's a "mandate." Just because they called the act the affordable care act, does not mean it's affordable. Again there is no mandate forcing you to buy insurance. Just as there is no mandate forcing you to work. However, if you do work you pay personal income taxes at the specified rates that now includes a check box for whether or not you purchased insurance, just like the check box for dependents. If you don't have dependents you don't get the exemptions, if you did not buy insurance your tax rate is higher than if you did buy insurance. Same goes for AMT if you sinned by earning to much money you get penalized with additional taxes above and beyond the basic rates. This is the same thing. You are being punished with additional taxes if you do not adhere to the government recommended behavior of earning less and spending more in government approved ways.

Further you don't have to buy insurance. If you have no income there is no fine. There is only a fine based on your amount of income, further they will give you subsidy checks for your health insurance if your income is low just like any other form of welfare.

Lots of made up stuff here.

"Not paying insurance does not go on your record."

So you are saying that the mandate will not be enforced? I think that it will be when you pay your income tax. And what you will be taxed will be part of IRS records.

"Just because they called it a "mandate" does not mean it's a "mandate."

A mandate means something that you are required to or suffer the consequences. All laws are mandates.

"Again there is no mandate forcing you to buy insurance."

No law can force anyone to do anything. That's why, for instance, there are murders. After a crime has been committed, the convicted perp is forced into paying the prescribed penalty.

"Same goes for AMT if you sinned by earning to much money you get penalized with additional taxes above and beyond the basic rates."

You made the choice to make more despite the fact that you knew the you'd have to share it with your country. You knew that up front. If you object, you have clear alternatives. Don't make the money or make it somewhere else.

"Further you don't have to buy insurance."

You don't have to refrain from murder either.

Yes you do have to refrain from murder. Murder is a capital offense for which in some states you can get the death sentence and in others life in prison.

Not buying health insurance is not a a crime. Nor is it a minor offense.

And NO you don't have to pay the fine unless you have income and oddly, also have a return coming to you. Apparently this will be a tax that is only applied as a deduction to your rebate check. Very odd this tax. I suspect they had to do it that way to go around potential filibusters in the House. Of course we won't see the new process for this new type of tax / rebate deduction till the final 2013 IRS forms come out. Then after someone gets their rebate deducted they can then sue for damages, and the SCOTUS may eventually rule on the constitutionality of taxing by reducing a legally determined income tax deduction amount, essentially resulting in double taxation on the same income, similar to AMT. I think I remember somewhere that when AMT hit it had to be done a certain way and this is a new way that is just as freakishly odd as AMT was. Something about due process. I suspect people will eventually just be able to say yes they had health insurance without proof and that insurance was their own bank account and the proof that they don't have any outstanding unpaid health care bills.