Political Message Boards

[Gunny]

This is just an observation on my part, but one I think might make an interesting discussion.

I've been a member of several political message boards for a few years. One thing that always strikes me is that in most cases, one side always dominates the other. By "side" I mean political "side." It seems that whichever side dominates, there is a core element that is intent on running the other side off the board.

IMO, this shows a lack of foresight, and objective analysis of the mechanics. The purpose of the board is political debate. There is no debate if only one side of the argument exists. All that remains is smacking each other on the ass for whatever.

I have watched a couple of message boards die for this very reason. Once the enclave has no one to run off, they get bored, attack one another, or find some other place to attempt a repeat performance, never considering that they are the means of their own destruction.

Coincidentally, or maybe not, almost without exception, this group is the weakest at actual intellectual debate on any topic.

Just wondering if anyone would like to add to, or express any thoughts on this.

 

[CSM]

This is just an observation on my part, but one I think might make an interesting discussion.

I've been a member of several political message boards for a few years. One thing that always strikes me is that in most cases, one side always dominates the other. By "side" I mean political "side." It seems that whichever side dominates, there is a core element that is intent on running the other side off the board.

IMO, this shows a lack of foresight, and objective analysis of the mechanics. The purpose of the board is political debate. There is no debate if only one side of the argument exists. All that remains is smacking each other on the ass for whatever.

I have watched a couple of message boards die for this very reason. Once the enclave has no one to run off, they get bored, attack one another, or find some other place to attempt a repeat performance, never considering that they are the means of their own destruction.

Coincidentally, or maybe not, almost without exception, this group is the weakest at actual intellectual debate on any topic.

Just wondering if anyone would like to add to, or express any thoughts on this.

I would not call what occurs here a "debate". It's usually not even a "discussion".

Almost every thread starts with some article, spirals downward through strawmen and ends up in in personal attacks.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's the fun of the internet.

I've only observed the left actually running people off message boards. I've also seen libs pick up their toys and go home when they can't bully and/or shut up the opposition.

I also have spent many, many years on the internet and on different message boards. The ONLY boards where posters will not get banned for having differing ideas are the RIGHT oriented boards. I've been banned twice or more from boards which started out with an open arena, and ended with leftists moving into the "moderator" spots and promptly banning anyone who didn't think like they did.

And when they aren't given that option, they'll generally leave message boards where they are called on their crap and not allowed to prevent others from voicing their views a well.

I've also seen boards where lefties got so angry over not being able to completely dominate the board, they actually filled out complaints with servers against other posters alleging every moronic thing in the book. All because they couldn't control what others think and say.

Sort of scary.

 

[Gunny]

I would not call what occurs here a "debate". It's usually not even a "discussion".

Almost every thread starts with some article, spirals downward through strawmen and ends up in in personal attacks.

Come on now CSM, you know the deal ... you're bringing me the problem without your recommended solution.

IMO, most of us military-types are more aware of the consequences of abusing the privilege of freedom of speech. This is the internet. There is no accountability. The most that can happen to someone is they get banned; which, serves neither them nor the board.

At the same time, I realize the heathens keep people such as yourself from contributing more, knowing you prefer a low-key, intelligent conversation to the opposing argument being a ding on your ancestry or intellect.

There's got to be a happy medium.

 

[Gunny]

That's the fun of the internet.

I've only observed the left actually running people off message boards. I've also seen libs pick up their toys and go home when they can't bully and/or shut up the opposition.

I also have spent many, many years on the internet and on different message boards. The ONLY boards where posters will not get banned for having differing ideas are the RIGHT oriented boards. I've been banned twice or more from boards which started out with an open arena, and ended with leftists moving into the "moderator" spots and promptly banning anyone who didn't think like they did.

And when they aren't given that option, they'll generally leave message boards where they are called on their crap and not allowed to prevent others from voicing their views a well.

I've also seen boards where lefties got so angry over not being able to completely dominate the board, they actually filled out complaints with servers against other posters alleging every moronic thing in the book. All because they couldn't control what others think and say.

Sort of scary.

What's fun about it? I was an active duty Marine for 20 years, and a Drill Instuctor for 2 of those. I don't any lessons on how to verbally abuse someone, and I did not then, nor now get much pleasure in it. There ARE exceptions. It's the only thing some people understand.

I have observed the same thing with right oriented boards. I'm not trying to knock one side or the other. However, what you mention is the nature of the beast. Conservatives by definition are more conservative. Liberals by definition are more liberal and they resent ANY intrusion on what they believe is their "right." The result of that on a right oriented board will be a ban for behavior unacceptable to the board.

As I said, there should be a happy medium.

 

[Paulie]

I would not call what occurs here a "debate". It's usually not even a "discussion".

Almost every thread starts with some article, spirals downward through strawmen and ends up in in personal attacks.

You have to understand that not every single person is knowledgable in debate and logic, and therefore many people do not even have any idea they are using strawmen.

If you want professional political debate, then maybe you should visit a board specifically for that?

Otherwise, why get turned off by amateurs with opinions? This is the internet, afterall.

 

[Gunny]

You have to understand that not every single person is knowledgable in debate and logic, and therefore many people do not even have any idea they are using strawmen.

If you want professional political debate, then maybe you should visit a board specifically for that?

Otherwise, why get turned off by amateurs with opinions? This is the internet, afterall.

I don't know that he is looking for a strictly by the rules forum for debate. I've never seen him express that desire. What I have noticed about CSM is he will engage in a topic and with the foul-mouthed lack of manners folks want display their skills, he just leaves. He isn't only one.

While you are correct in general, the whole point IS still political debate. Right? We have forums for people to talk about most anything they want, and even one where they can verbally beat each other up. So why does THAT have to get dragged into the political debate subforums?

How can a rational human being equate responding to a well thought out and delivered post with deflections and insults as having any knowledge on the topic? I realize dumb people don't know they 're dumb, but more often than not, that isn't case. It's more refusing to admit you don't know what the Hell you're talking about or accepting being corrected if you are.

Besides, who asked YOU anyway? You're one of them libertines ... you weren't invited to the debate.

 

[Annie]

I don't know that he is looking for a strictly by the rules forum for debate. I've never seen him express that desire. What I have noticed about CSM is he will engage in a topic and with the foul-mouthed lack of manners folks want display their skills, he just leaves. He isn't only one.

While you are correct in general, the whole point IS still political debate. Right? We have forums for people to talk about most anything they want, and even one where they can verbally beat each other up. So why does THAT have to get dragged into the political debate subforums?

How can a rational human being equate responding to a well thought out and delivered post with deflections and insults as having any knowledge on the topic? I realize dumb people don't know they 're dumb, but more often than not, that isn't case. It's more refusing to admit you don't know what the Hell you're talking about or accepting being corrected if you are.

Besides, who asked YOU anyway? You're one of them libertines ... you weren't invited to the debate.

CSM is one of the most fair posters I've seen. There are worse boards than this, by far. No one gets banned, but you are correct, many choose to find other venues, due to lack of substance on points. Most of the time it's an echo chamber, but was the other way earlier. So guess all's fair. Jillian is the only one I find to be here consistently and is willing to debate fairly, the rest of the left just shouts any disagreement down.

 

[editec]

Coincidentally, or maybe not, almost without exception, this group is the weakest at actual intellectual debate on any topic.

Just wondering if anyone would like to add to, or express any thoughts on this.

Just as bad money drive out good, so too do aggressively stupid and hostile people tend to drive off those whose interest is somewhat more intellectual, I think.

It's not that they actually have DRIVE them off with hostile intent, so much as they BORE they off the board because they can't (or won't) engage in honest and intellectually stimulating discussions.

If a poster's purpose here is simply to spew senseless venom, there's damned all that can be done about it UNLESS the board moderator simply kicks them off.

But the problem with that is then, the board often becomes a reflection of that moderator's taste and sense of decorum.

 

[Paulie]

I don't know that he is looking for a strictly by the rules forum for debate. I've never seen him express that desire. What I have noticed about CSM is he will engage in a topic and with the foul-mouthed lack of manners folks want display their skills, he just leaves. He isn't only one.

While you are correct in general, the whole point IS still political debate. Right? We have forums for people to talk about most anything they want, and even one where they can verbally beat each other up. So why does THAT have to get dragged into the political debate subforums?

How can a rational human being equate responding to a well thought out and delivered post with deflections and insults as having any knowledge on the topic? I realize dumb people don't know they 're dumb, but more often than not, that isn't case. It's more refusing to admit you don't know what the Hell you're talking about or accepting being corrected if you are.

Well, this is the nature of politics. It's probably why a lot of people refuse to discuss politics with friends, unless they're looking to trim their friend base down.

I agree though, that the majority of the liberals here are whiners, with some exceptions. But the name-calling exists between both sides, and I'd have to say it's equal. Maybe the only difference being, that the righties call names while making their case, and the lefties just call names.

Besides, who asked YOU anyway?

Um, you?

Just wondering if anyone would like to add to, or express any thoughts on this.

You're one of them libertines ...

I've never even been to England, nor have I ever been in a rock band. You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[Diuretic]

I realise it's difficult to be specific but so far this thread seems to be a series of general smears by those of the right on those of the left. And since a question was asked in the first post I have to say that the deterioration of this thread is indicative of the problems. From the second post down it became simply a pile-on with, as I say, general smears. It's evidence of the problem. Just as well I don't take much of it seriously.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

All I know is in the US Liberals do not even acknowledge they are Liberals. When your so ashamed of your political beliefs you won't even embrace the name for that belief, I suggest you have a problem.

 

[Diuretic]

All I know is in the US Liberals do not even acknowledge they are Liberals. When your so ashamed of your political beliefs you won't even embrace the name for that belief, I suggest you have a problem.

I can only speak for myself when I say I don't like labels. I regard myself as being slightly left of centre. If that's "liberal" then I suppose I'll have to accept the label - reluctantly.

The reason I don't like labels is the same reason I'm no longer a member of any political party.

I'm not a rebel, I'm pretty much a conformist in many things but I hate being told what to think. And I found when I was in a political party that I was being told how to think and how to vote on issues.

I refused to join a faction despite being asked by three major factions (I should add that I'm no-one special, I have no magical powers or charisma, I was just another number to the numbers people in the factions).

I prefer to find my own way on the issues and reject being pigeon-holed.

Sure, here I'll wave the flag for the Left but it's only to get up the collective nose of the Right (hey it's in fun!) but I'll run a bloody mile before I let someone do that to me in real life.

 

[007]

That's the fun of the internet.

I've only observed the left actually running people off message boards. I've also seen libs pick up their toys and go home when they can't bully and/or shut up the opposition.

I also have spent many, many years on the internet and on different message boards. The ONLY boards where posters will not get banned for having differing ideas are the RIGHT oriented boards. I've been banned twice or more from boards which started out with an open arena, and ended with leftists moving into the "moderator" spots and promptly banning anyone who didn't think like they did.

And when they aren't given that option, they'll generally leave message boards where they are called on their crap and not allowed to prevent others from voicing their views a well.

I've also seen boards where lefties got so angry over not being able to completely dominate the board, they actually filled out complaints with servers against other posters alleging every moronic thing in the book. All because they couldn't control what others think and say.

Sort of scary.

You know what Allie... you could have just as easily been talking about the liberals in Washington and the improperly and outrageously named, "Fairness Doctrine," which by the way the moratorium to put it off for a year ends in just a few months.

The liberal left/democrats are all about, if they can't win in the arena of ideas, which 99% of the time they can't, then they'll do everything in their power to shut you up.

Can you say communist/dictator style government action? You bet. That's your friendly neighborhood liberals at work. They're dangerous.

 

[007]

I realise it's difficult to be specific but so far this thread seems to be a series of general smears by those of the right on those of the left. And since a question was asked in the first post I have to say that the deterioration of this thread is indicative of the problems. From the second post down it became simply a pile-on with, as I say, general smears. It's evidence of the problem. Just as well I don't take much of it seriously.

I'd have to disagree Diuretic... when I popped back on here a couple months ago, I was immediately ganged up on by the marauding band of board liberals here simply for espousing my conservative opinions. There was no debate, there was no counter to my points, there was only smart ass talk and personal insults, and I can add that it doesn't just happen here. It's all over. The rottenest, filthiest talking, most personally abusive posters I've ever seen were liberals, and the only reason they need to start talking their shit is because they don't agree with you. Screw debate, they just want to verbally beat you up and make you go away. I was even dinged here by a liberal simply because of my avatar... need I say more.

 

[Diuretic]

Jeez Pale I remember when Captain America used to give me a kicking

But there's a limit to everything, if it gets too personal, I mean way too personal, then that takes any fun out of it. Fair enough lobbing the odd comment but if it just gets savage then stuff it, that's ridiculous.

 

[007]

Jeez Pale I remember when Captain America used to give me a kicking

But there's a limit to everything, if it gets too personal, I mean way too personal, then that takes any fun out of it. Fair enough lobbing the odd comment but if it just gets savage then stuff it, that's ridiculous.

I totally agree. I've been in some pretty big battles on these boards, but 99% of the time, I didn't start it. I give what I get, but even that gets old. I much more prefer a debate on the facts, and keep your personal insults to yourself.

 

[Shattered]

Coming from someone who generally sits on the sidelines, and watches with a completely open mind, BOTH sides can suck pretty bad, and BOTH sides have their fair share of abusive assholes who just want to pick a fight for whatever reason (maybe they ran out of booze - who knows).

Here, no side is any worse than the other; thus the pretty even mix of libs vs. cons. The fact that this board DOES get upwards of 300 posts a day, and takes part in minimal banning shows that. If each side had people equally banned for the continual flamefests, and attacks, there would probably be 2 dozen infrequent posters on each side left throughout the board, and activity would drop to maybe 6 posts a day.

Y'all got it pretty good.

 

[editec]

What I see going on (from my very limited experience here) is people presuming that someone is a liberal or conservative, and then basically ignoring what they write and going into ad homenin attack mode.

I think people do this because it is easier to attack a caracture you're making of the other than it is to actually have a serious discussion/debate about what they actually write.

 

[Rhys]

My own experience, from taking part in rather a lot of boards, is that 'discussion' mostly means a chance for people to express the rage they feel at being forced to be polite in everyday business rather than shoot others, and especially to bully those they think are too weak to kick them back. Discussion is usually brought to an end by AIPAC, in my experience, because it cannot afford to allow any free expression, anywhere, ever. It is not a very hopeful entertainment, this!