Political history being re wrote as we watch

[JRK]

"Now, much needs to be done by all of us in the community of civilized nations. We must act against the criminal menace of terrorism with the full weight of the law, both domestic and international. We will act to indict, apprehend, and prosecute those who commit the kind of atrocities the world has witnessed in recent weeks. We can act together as free peoples who wish not to see our citizens kidnapped or shot or blown out of the skies -- just as we acted together to rid the seas of piracy at the turn of the last century. And incidentally, those of you who are legal scholars will note the law's description of pirates: "hostis humanis'' -- the enemies of all mankind. There can be no place on Earth left where it is safe for these monsters to rest or train or practice their cruel and deadly skills. We must act together, or unilaterally if necessary, to ensure that terrorists have no sanctuary anywhere." Ronald Reagan, July 1985

And your point? we had close to 50 nations helped us with the victory in Iraq fighting Al Qaeda
As I recall we arrested Saddam
I also recall Gitmo having numerous prisoners that have been prosecuted in accordance of military laws
Looks to me your coming around

 

[BlindBoo]

Shack back in the day I would ask Jake point out one of my lies so i could correct it, or defend my self
He would then say something to the effect that he had all ready posted it. Watch this

Okay Jake, name one lie I have told

Jake is just trying to hold VERY desperately to his "view", but his argument is unraveling. You can not make the claim of "false statements" if you have nothing but mere hot air to back it up. Jake has offered no credibility to his position, except resorting to neo-con statements. Judging from that response he resorts to, he has GOT to be frustrated in the fact he is losing ground in defending his case. Best thing for you JRK, is simply ignore him as his further statements have become basically irrelevant to the discussion here. Stick to those you can actually have a political dialogue with, who actually takes the time to respond through well thought out statements.


Boo on the other hand, I CAN respect for standing up to the plate in this discussion and providing articles to try to defend Clinton's position. Honestly I don't mind, and would rather learn from a new different perspective, exchanging views and positions with BlindBoo. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.

I really cannot tell the diff with the 2. I think Boo took the truth personal. I do not ever remember him being that way until we began to debate Iraq and the truth versus what the media and the democrats repeated for so long it became the truth. It makes me furious to know that the Democrats covet being elected more than the truth about the real events that lead up to invading Iraq

There you go insulting me again. You cannot win debates with the half truths you cling to.

 

[Charles_Main]

No serious, thinking person would ever even hint at a claim that George W Bush was not an extremely poor President.

He was Indeed a Poor President over all

Given the fact that Obama has yet to finish even half of his Presidency, it is premature to start making such odd comparisons.....and trying to claim that he is somehow worse than "W".

Ahh but a whole lot has happened in that short time. A man that told us spending 100 Billion a year on 2 Wars was crazy and helped destroy our Economy, has spent 4 Trillion in New Debt in 3 Years. That to me is unbelievable.

 

[JRK]

No serious, thinking person would ever even hint at a claim that George W Bush was not an extremely poor President.

He was Indeed a Poor President over all

Given the fact that Obama has yet to finish even half of his Presidency, it is premature to start making such odd comparisons.....and trying to claim that he is somehow worse than "W".

Ahh but a whole lot has happened in that short time. A man that told us spending 100 Billion a year on 2 Wars was crazy and helped destroy our Economy, has spent 4 Trillion in New Debt in 3 Years. That to me is unbelievable.

Why do you think W was a bad president?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake is just trying to hold VERY desperately to his "view", but his argument is unraveling. You can not make the claim of "false statements" if you have nothing but mere hot air to back it up. Jake has offered no credibility to his position, except resorting to neo-con statements. Judging from that response he resorts to, he has GOT to be frustrated in the fact he is losing ground in defending his case. Best thing for you JRK, is simply ignore him as his further statements have become basically irrelevant to the discussion here. Stick to those you can actually have a political dialogue with, who actually takes the time to respond through well thought out statements.


Boo on the other hand, I CAN respect for standing up to the plate in this discussion and providing articles to try to defend Clinton's position. Honestly I don't mind, and would rather learn from a new different perspective, exchanging views and positions with BlindBoo. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.

I really cannot tell the diff with the 2. I think Boo took the truth personal. I do not ever remember him being that way until we began to debate Iraq and the truth versus what the media and the democrats repeated for so long it became the truth. It makes me furious to know that the Democrats covet being elected more than the truth about the real events that lead up to invading Iraq

There you go insulting me again. You cannot win debates with the half truths you cling to.

JRK, Shakles, and so many are nothing but half-bajed neo-cons who get caught out in their lies time and again, then continue trying to lie their way out.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

"Now, much needs to be done by all of us in the community of civilized nations. We must act against the criminal menace of terrorism with the full weight of the law, both domestic and international. We will act to indict, apprehend, and prosecute those who commit the kind of atrocities the world has witnessed in recent weeks. We can act together as free peoples who wish not to see our citizens kidnapped or shot or blown out of the skies -- just as we acted together to rid the seas of piracy at the turn of the last century. And incidentally, those of you who are legal scholars will note the law's description of pirates: "hostis humanis'' -- the enemies of all mankind. There can be no place on Earth left where it is safe for these monsters to rest or train or practice their cruel and deadly skills. We must act together, or unilaterally if necessary, to ensure that terrorists have no sanctuary anywhere." Ronald Reagan, July 1985

The problem with terrorism is that it's NOT a criminal act, when you use a plane as a missile to go into the trade towers as well as the pentagon, with the attack of the USS Cole -- it becomes an act of war! Now I do agree nations need to act together to go after these extremists, and put those who harbor terrorists on notice! This isn't someone who decided to blow up a building to make a statement, this is a group who has (time and again) made it clear that there intentions are to kill those citizens that represent this country -- BIG difference. They admit, through their Jihad faith, that this is a holy war against the United States. Why do certain ideological groups act so timid to accept it?

For those who believe terrorism is a crime and for liberal "legal scholars": when extremists are captured overseas how may we satisfy this Amendment of the constitution?

The Sixth Amendment
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State or district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence"

They were captured terrorists overseas with military weapons killing our soldiers, why are we "giving them a trial in the United States"? Now this is strictly looking straight at what is written [black and white] in our own Constitution, not someone's quote or commentary opinion. Can anyone here provide an answer to your "hole in your argument" dilemma with the US Constitution? Eric Holder had no answer, and he is our current Attourney General. We are talking about "preserving civil liberties", aren't we? How does it apply "legally" to those muslim terrorists we capture overseas?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

JRK, Shakles, and so many are nothing but half-bajed neo-cons who get caught out in their lies time and again, then continue trying to lie their way out.

There you go again, making "neo-con" insults. Is this all you have left Jake? If it has become THAT hard for you to find facts to counter my arguments, perhaps you should go wander off to another thread where you can actually "contribute" something useful to the discussion and are capable of at least leaving more of a well thought out intelligent response?

 

[JRK]

JRK, Shakles, and so many are nothing but half-bajed neo-cons who get caught out in their lies time and again, then continue trying to lie their way out.

There you go again, making "neo-con" insults. Is this all you have left Jake? If it has become THAT hard for you to find facts to counter my arguments, perhaps you should go wander off to another thread where you can actually "contribute" something useful to the discussion and are capable of at least leaving more of a well thought out intelligent response?

I have Jake on ignore, that is all he does. I tried to imagine my-self sitting be-hind a key board and being that way, I cannot get there

 

[idb]

JRK, Shakles, and so many are nothing but half-bajed neo-cons who get caught out in their lies time and again, then continue trying to lie their way out.

There you go again, making "neo-con" insults. Is this all you have left Jake? If it has become THAT hard for you to find facts to counter my arguments, perhaps you should go wander off to another thread where you can actually "contribute" something useful to the discussion and are capable of at least leaving more of a well thought out intelligent response?

I have Jake on ignore, that is all he does. I tried to imagine my-self sitting be-hind a key board and being that way, I cannot get there

I think you lack imagination.

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK, who follows my every post though I am on ignore, has been completely rebutted on all of his neo-con arguments. Shakles and full-autho have been in full fail mode as well.

When they post worthy arguments, we will let them know.

It is good to see the neo-con side of the GOP spinning its wheels aimlessly to no point. Their time is over, and America is a better place.

 

[JRK]

There you go again, making "neo-con" insults. Is this all you have left Jake? If it has become THAT hard for you to find facts to counter my arguments, perhaps you should go wander off to another thread where you can actually "contribute" something useful to the discussion and are capable of at least leaving more of a well thought out intelligent response?

I have Jake on ignore, that is all he does. I tried to imagine my-self sitting be-hind a key board and being that way, I cannot get there

I think you lack imagination.

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

 

[idb]

I have Jake on ignore, that is all he does. I tried to imagine my-self sitting be-hind a key board and being that way, I cannot get there

I think you lack imagination.

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

I take your discussions as a joke JRK.
Your positions are unfocussed, uninformed and unyielding.
You come across as uneducated, unthinking and untellectual (that last one isn't a real word but I think it fits you nicely).

 

[JRK]

I think you lack imagination.

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

I take your discussions as a joke JRK.
Your positions are unfocussed, uninformed and unyielding.
You come across as uneducated, unthinking and untellectual (that last one isn't a real word but I think it fits you nicely).

Wow, If you feel that way then why do you bother with saying anything? You just confirmed my hypothesis
My positions are simple
informed
facts do not require thought

and as far as an education goes, I maybe not the smartest, but I got class. I never have came across to you as a child, so stop acting like one with me

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK continues to ramble and mumble along. His OP absolute fail.

 

[idb]

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

I take your discussions as a joke JRK.
Your positions are unfocussed, uninformed and unyielding.
You come across as uneducated, unthinking and untellectual (that last one isn't a real word but I think it fits you nicely).

Wow, If you feel that way then why do you bother with saying anything? You just confirmed my hypothesis
My positions are simple
informed
facts do not require thought

and as far as an education goes, I maybe not the smartest, but I got class. I never have came across to you as a child, so stop acting like one with me

Facts don't require thought?
You're right - you really are simple.

 

[JRK]

I take your discussions as a joke JRK.
Your positions are unfocussed, uninformed and unyielding.
You come across as uneducated, unthinking and untellectual (that last one isn't a real word but I think it fits you nicely).

Wow, If you feel that way then why do you bother with saying anything? You just confirmed my hypothesis
My positions are simple
informed
facts do not require thought

and as far as an education goes, I maybe not the smartest, but I got class. I never have came across to you as a child, so stop acting like one with me

Facts don't require thought?
You're right - you really are simple.

And that is a problem why? I have no need to brag about who and what I am nor more than the need to run down my fellow American idb.
My actions as well as who and what I am is all I need. maybe one day you will understand that.

Look at you dude, its always about some-one else

A liberal for some reason feels they MUST be-little any-one who does not agree with them. I have been told by professionals its because they can look at that person as no longer an equal, I thinks it is far more serious than that

Dude I really feel sorry for you. There is nothing in this world worth the way you live it. stand back and take a look, make a difference and stop trying to show every-one your "smart"

You have no idea who I am, what I do, what I have done and where I am in life, so stop trying to judge me just to make you feel better about who you are

think about it

 

[idb]

Wow, If you feel that way then why do you bother with saying anything? You just confirmed my hypothesis
My positions are simple
informed
facts do not require thought

and as far as an education goes, I maybe not the smartest, but I got class. I never have came across to you as a child, so stop acting like one with me

Facts don't require thought?
You're right - you really are simple.

And that is a problem why? I have no need to brag about who and what I am nor more than the need to run down my fellow American idb.
My actions as well as who and what I am is all I need. maybe one day you will understand that.

Look at you dude, its always about some-one else

A liberal for some reason feels they MUST be-little any-one who does not agree with them. I have been told by professionals its because they can look at that person as no longer an equal, I thinks it is far more serious than that

Dude I really feel sorry for you. There is nothing in this world worth the way you live it. stand back and take a look, make a difference and stop trying to show every-one your "smart"

You have no idea who I am, what I do, what I have done and where I am in life, so stop trying to judge me just to make you feel better about who you are

think about it

Umm, remember your first statement?

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

You made a judgement about me from the start.

I've no idea if I'm a liberal or not, I suspect that anyone that disagrees with your myopic world view is a liberal in your eyes.

I don't feel the need to belittle anyone, but if you feel belittled...oh well.

It's not necessarily that I disagree with you JRK.
It's that you have one bandwagon and you use it to try garner affirmation from other posters on this board to boost your self-image.

I've never seen you change or even modify your opinion on the strength of someone else's arguments and you certainly won't accept that any position contrary to your own might have any merit whatsoever.

I don't see any critical thinking on your part (which you confirmed with your statement above regarding not having to think about facts) beyond searching for websites that reinforce your entrenched ideas - you can find confirmation of anything you want on the 'net, the skill is in analysing it.

Now go on, call me a liberal again.

 

[JRK]

Facts don't require thought?
You're right - you really are simple.

And that is a problem why? I have no need to brag about who and what I am nor more than the need to run down my fellow American idb.
My actions as well as who and what I am is all I need. maybe one day you will understand that.

Look at you dude, its always about some-one else

A liberal for some reason feels they MUST be-little any-one who does not agree with them. I have been told by professionals its because they can look at that person as no longer an equal, I thinks it is far more serious than that

Dude I really feel sorry for you. There is nothing in this world worth the way you live it. stand back and take a look, make a difference and stop trying to show every-one your "smart"

You have no idea who I am, what I do, what I have done and where I am in life, so stop trying to judge me just to make you feel better about who you are

think about it

Umm, remember your first statement?

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

You made a judgement about me from the start.

I've no idea if I'm a liberal or not, I suspect that anyone that disagrees with your myopic world view is a liberal in your eyes.

I don't feel the need to belittle anyone, but if you feel belittled...oh well.

It's not necessarily that I disagree with you JRK.
It's that you have one bandwagon and you use it to try garner affirmation from other posters on this board to boost your self-image.

I've never seen you change or even modify your opinion on the strength of someone else's arguments and you certainly won't accept that any position contrary to your own might have any merit whatsoever.

I don't see any critical thinking on your part (which you confirmed with your statement above regarding not having to think about facts) beyond searching for websites that reinforce your entrenched ideas - you can find confirmation of anything you want on the 'net, the skill is in analysing it.

Now go on, call me a liberal again.

idb is BHO the president of this great nation?
now that is a fact i do not need to think about is it? he is the president

If Blix came out on 1-23-2003 and says all Saddam has is 500 old and wore out munitions that will not fly that have gas in the war heads and he also said there was 550 metric tons of yellow cake that was secure, then us invading would have been stupid, Now there some information in there that needed some thought

Dude you never discuss the issues, all you do is attack me and i have no idea why, its all you know how to do
The only way you can make good decisions in life is to have accurate information, once I know that information is accurate then why give it any more thought other than the use of it?

My point is simple, I dont debate issues, i supply information. If you dis agree with me then just dis agree with me, that is not what you do
you make joke out of this, why?

when you get to where I am in life you will find that you cannot skip around with your choices in life, it is a by product of being responsible for 100s of people, every day, thats what I do usually, that is what made me who I am

With the Iraq war what is there to analyze?
You act like being called a liberal is a bad thing, the analyzing comment gives you away, besides it does not make you a bad person, being impossible to communicate with and thinking just because we dis agree makes me a dumb or (non critical thinker) has no merit. You go right back to trying to prove your better than me. People are different ibd

The Iraq war was about 9-11
followed by Saddam not doing what he said he would do.
The UN said keep giving us money, let us keep getting kick backs from Saddam oil for food and dont worry about it
The US congress and GWB said thanks, but no thanks

What else is there? we spent 18 months analyzing it while Saddam and Al Qaeda got ready
That is what analyzing does

 

[idb]

And that is a problem why? I have no need to brag about who and what I am nor more than the need to run down my fellow American idb.
My actions as well as who and what I am is all I need. maybe one day you will understand that.

Look at you dude, its always about some-one else

A liberal for some reason feels they MUST be-little any-one who does not agree with them. I have been told by professionals its because they can look at that person as no longer an equal, I thinks it is far more serious than that

Dude I really feel sorry for you. There is nothing in this world worth the way you live it. stand back and take a look, make a difference and stop trying to show every-one your "smart"

You have no idea who I am, what I do, what I have done and where I am in life, so stop trying to judge me just to make you feel better about who you are

think about it

Umm, remember your first statement?

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

You made a judgement about me from the start.

I've no idea if I'm a liberal or not, I suspect that anyone that disagrees with your myopic world view is a liberal in your eyes.

I don't feel the need to belittle anyone, but if you feel belittled...oh well.

It's not necessarily that I disagree with you JRK.
It's that you have one bandwagon and you use it to try garner affirmation from other posters on this board to boost your self-image.

I've never seen you change or even modify your opinion on the strength of someone else's arguments and you certainly won't accept that any position contrary to your own might have any merit whatsoever.

I don't see any critical thinking on your part (which you confirmed with your statement above regarding not having to think about facts) beyond searching for websites that reinforce your entrenched ideas - you can find confirmation of anything you want on the 'net, the skill is in analysing it.

Now go on, call me a liberal again.

idb is BHO the president of this great nation?
now that is a fact i do not need to think about is it? he is the president

If Blix came out on 1-23-2003 and says all Saddam has is 500 old and wore out munitions that will not fly that have gas in the war heads and he also said there was 550 metric tons of yellow cake that was secure, then us invading would have been stupid, Now there some information in there that needed some thought

Dude you never discuss the issues, all you do is attack me and i have no idea why, its all you know how to do
The only way you can make good decisions in life is to have accurate information, once I know that information is accurate then why give it any more thought other than the use of it?

My point is simple, I dont debate issues, i supply information. If you dis agree with me then just dis agree with me, that is not what you do
you make joke out of this, why?

when you get to where I am in life you will find that you cannot skip around with your choices in life, it is a by product of being responsible for 100s of people, every day, thats what I do usually, that is what made me who I am

With the Iraq war what is there to analyze?
You act like being called a liberal is a bad thing, the analyzing comment gives you away, besides it does not make you a bad person, being impossible to communicate with and thinking just because we dis agree makes me a dumb or (non critical thinker) has no merit. You go right back to trying to prove your better than me. People are different ibd

The Iraq war was about 9-11
followed by Saddam not doing what he said he would do.
The UN said keep giving us money, let us keep getting kick backs from Saddam oil for food and dont worry about it
The US congress and GWB said thanks, but no thanks

What else is there? we spent 18 months analyzing it while Saddam and Al Qaeda got ready
That is what analyzing does

Before now, I haven't attacked you.
This rant is born out of frustration of the impossibility of trying to debate with you.
Yet again, you have uncritically spouted a load of opinion from your favourite bandwagon.

You are the one that constantly uses the term 'liberal' as an insult - it's a default form of abuse for you.

I'm not sure how analysing and thinking critically about information is a bad thing - or 'gives me away'.
Is that what makes me a liberal?

 

[BlindBoo]

And that is a problem why? I have no need to brag about who and what I am nor more than the need to run down my fellow American idb.
My actions as well as who and what I am is all I need. maybe one day you will understand that.

Look at you dude, its always about some-one else

A liberal for some reason feels they MUST be-little any-one who does not agree with them. I have been told by professionals its because they can look at that person as no longer an equal, I thinks it is far more serious than that

Dude I really feel sorry for you. There is nothing in this world worth the way you live it. stand back and take a look, make a difference and stop trying to show every-one your "smart"

You have no idea who I am, what I do, what I have done and where I am in life, so stop trying to judge me just to make you feel better about who you are

think about it

Umm, remember your first statement?

idb your about the same. I suspect your about 14, maybe 16
Home schooled
You take these discussions as a joke
You will grow out of that one day or not. Is that have enough imagination with it?

You made a judgement about me from the start.

I've no idea if I'm a liberal or not, I suspect that anyone that disagrees with your myopic world view is a liberal in your eyes.

I don't feel the need to belittle anyone, but if you feel belittled...oh well.

It's not necessarily that I disagree with you JRK.
It's that you have one bandwagon and you use it to try garner affirmation from other posters on this board to boost your self-image.

I've never seen you change or even modify your opinion on the strength of someone else's arguments and you certainly won't accept that any position contrary to your own might have any merit whatsoever.

I don't see any critical thinking on your part (which you confirmed with your statement above regarding not having to think about facts) beyond searching for websites that reinforce your entrenched ideas - you can find confirmation of anything you want on the 'net, the skill is in analysing it.

Now go on, call me a liberal again.

idb is BHO the president of this great nation?
now that is a fact i do not need to think about is it? he is the president

If Blix came out on 1-23-2003 and says all Saddam has is 500 old and wore out munitions that will not fly that have gas in the war heads and he also said there was 550 metric tons of yellow cake that was secure, then us invading would have been stupid, Now there some information in there that needed some thought

Dude you never discuss the issues, all you do is attack me and i have no idea why, its all you know how to do
The only way you can make good decisions in life is to have accurate information, once I know that information is accurate then why give it any more thought other than the use of it?

My point is simple, I dont debate issues, i supply information. If you dis agree with me then just dis agree with me, that is not what you do
you make joke out of this, why?

when you get to where I am in life you will find that you cannot skip around with your choices in life, it is a by product of being responsible for 100s of people, every day, thats what I do usually, that is what made me who I am

With the Iraq war what is there to analyze?
You act like being called a liberal is a bad thing, the analyzing comment gives you away, besides it does not make you a bad person, being impossible to communicate with and thinking just because we dis agree makes me a dumb or (non critical thinker) has no merit. You go right back to trying to prove your better than me. People are different ibd

The Iraq war was about 9-11
followed by Saddam not doing what he said he would do.
The UN said keep giving us money, let us keep getting kick backs from Saddam oil for food and dont worry about it
The US congress and GWB said thanks, but no thanks

What else is there? we spent 18 months analyzing it while Saddam and Al Qaeda got ready
That is what analyzing does

The only conection between 9-11 and the Iraq war is that 9-11 was used by the Bush Administration as political capital to invade Iraq.

Saddam had not reconsitutied Iraqs chemical, biological or nuclear programs.