Pocahontas is Delusional, Says Unions Will Make a Comeback

[Markle]

Most American workers are underpaid considering they are the most dedicated, productive, and greatest workers in the world by far. Rarely complaining always working till they have nothing left.

Workers are paid their exact worth. Saying they are underpaid is foolish and not true.

 

[DGS49]

(1) the productivity (and improving production quality) of American workers is largely due to technological advances, which are accelerated by lazy, careless workers, who require something that is simple, easy, and foolproof (think about that word, for a moment).

(2) wages are set by the market, and may have nothing to do with the difficulty or skill required to do the work.

(3) today's unions are focusing on employers who are IMMUNE to competitive pressures, and thus can pay high wages and provide generous benefits with little or no "pushback" from stockholders, customers, or managers. I am speaking of GOVERNMENT, public utilities, the healthcare industry, and oligarchical industries such as "Big Three" automakers. They are virtually extinct in competitive industries, and going nowhere fast.

(4) today's unions work for the prosperity of the UNION ITSELF, and only incidentally for the workers that they represent.

(5) unions in the public sector are the greatest taxpayer ripoff in all of recorded history.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Greedy bastards got what they deserved.

<<“Unions built the middle class—and unions will rebuild the middle class,” Warren wrote. “If we want more good American jobs, then we need stronger unions and more power in the hands of the people.”>>

Elizabeth Warren: 'Unions Will Rebuild America’s Middle Class'

Elizabeth Warren is completely correct.

Except she omits the part that unions are why our jobs went overseas.

Greed is what moved jobs overseas. Greed is what created strikes. Greed is a deadly sin. Collective bargaining will lead to fair wages, Unions do not want to chase away the jobs. Common sense and the lessons of history seem to have left the Right Wing.

Detroit?

 

[Wyatt earp]

(1) the productivity (and improving production quality) of American workers is largely due to technological advances, which are accelerated by lazy, careless workers, who require something that is simple, easy, and foolproof (think about that word, for a moment).

(2) wages are set by the market, and may have nothing to do with the difficulty or skill required to do the work.

(3) today's unions are focusing on employers who are IMMUNE to competitive pressures, and thus can pay high wages and provide generous benefits with little or no "pushback" from stockholders, customers, or managers. I am speaking of GOVERNMENT, public utilities, the healthcare industry, and oligarchical industries such as "Big Three" automakers. They are virtually extinct in competitive industries, and going nowhere fast.

(4) today's unions work for the prosperity of the UNION ITSELF, and only incidentally for the workers that they represent.

(5) unions in the public sector are the greatest taxpayer ripoff in all of recorded history.

Exactly hostess

 

[Markle]

Greed is what moved jobs overseas. Greed is what created strikes. Greed is a deadly sin. Collective bargaining will lead to fair wages, Unions do not want to chase away the jobs. Common sense and the lessons of history seem to have left the Right Wing.

There is bad greed and good greed. Most are good greed which has and will keep America great.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Greedy bastards got what they deserved.

<<“Unions built the middle class—and unions will rebuild the middle class,” Warren wrote. “If we want more good American jobs, then we need stronger unions and more power in the hands of the people.”>>

Elizabeth Warren: 'Unions Will Rebuild America’s Middle Class'

Elizabeth Warren is completely correct.

Except she omits the part that unions are why our jobs went overseas.

Greed is what moved jobs overseas. Greed is what created strikes. Greed is a deadly sin. Collective bargaining will lead to fair wages, Unions do not want to chase away the jobs. Common sense and the lessons of history seem to have left the Right Wing.

LOL, since when is the desire to increase efficiency synonymous with greed?

You do realize that the never ending quest for efficiency improvement by producers is what made this modern world you enjoy possible, right?

... and while we're at it, why don't you take a stab at defining exactly what a "fair wage" is and why only collective bargaining can acquire it, K, thanks.

Moving washing machines and other manufactured goods overseas is more efficient than building them here?

Robotics have claimed jobs, that's efficient, and along with green and renewable energy more 21st jobs will be created in our country if we can train the up coming generation in trades and technology.

What's a fair wage? It depends on geography, and the ability of the worker to be able to pay for shelter, food, clothing, health insurance, transportation and saving for the future - at the least.

What's an unfair wage: America's CEOs earned a staggering $14.5 million in 2018, on average, compared to the average $39,888 that rank-and-file workers made. And CEOs got a $500,000 bump compared to the previous year, while the average US worker barely got more than $1,000.

CEOs made 287 times more money last year than their workers did

How is it unfair?

 

[Markle]

(5) unions in the public sector are the greatest taxpayer ripoff in all of recorded history.

FDR, a historic idol of the far-left also said that there should be no unions in the public sector.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Unions completely destroyed manufacturing. They pushed car makers into bankruptcy. They pushed consumer goods out of the US. They made retirement packages so unrealistically big at many companies that their collapse was inevitable.

This is not the kind of inefficiency we need to add to an already dysfunctional government

 

[NightFox]

Greedy bastards got what they deserved.

<<“Unions built the middle class—and unions will rebuild the middle class,” Warren wrote. “If we want more good American jobs, then we need stronger unions and more power in the hands of the people.”>>

Elizabeth Warren: 'Unions Will Rebuild America’s Middle Class'

Elizabeth Warren is completely correct.

Except she omits the part that unions are why our jobs went overseas.

Greed is what moved jobs overseas. Greed is what created strikes. Greed is a deadly sin. Collective bargaining will lead to fair wages, Unions do not want to chase away the jobs. Common sense and the lessons of history seem to have left the Right Wing.

LOL, since when is the desire to increase efficiency synonymous with greed?

You do realize that the never ending quest for efficiency improvement by producers is what made this modern world you enjoy possible, right?

... and while we're at it, why don't you take a stab at defining exactly what a "fair wage" is and why only collective bargaining can acquire it, K, thanks.

Management can ignore the individual. They can easily replace the individual. They can do neither with the collective.

Thanks for the completely irrelevant and nonsensical NON-ANSWER to the questions posed in my post.

The next time you wish to prove to me how vapid you are, don't bother, you've already accomplished that goal, K, Thanks.

"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison

 

[pknopp]

Elizabeth Warren is completely correct.

Except she omits the part that unions are why our jobs went overseas.

Greed is what moved jobs overseas. Greed is what created strikes. Greed is a deadly sin. Collective bargaining will lead to fair wages, Unions do not want to chase away the jobs. Common sense and the lessons of history seem to have left the Right Wing.

LOL, since when is the desire to increase efficiency synonymous with greed?

You do realize that the never ending quest for efficiency improvement by producers is what made this modern world you enjoy possible, right?

... and while we're at it, why don't you take a stab at defining exactly what a "fair wage" is and why only collective bargaining can acquire it, K, thanks.

Management can ignore the individual. They can easily replace the individual. They can do neither with the collective.

Thanks for the completely irrelevant and nonsensical NON-ANSWER to the questions posed in my post.

The next time you wish to prove to me how vapid you are, don't bother, you've already accomplished that goal, K, Thanks.

"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison

I specifically addressed the last part of your post.

 

[22lcidw]

You are confused Moon Bat.

Billionaires pay tons of taxes and creates millions of jobs. Union pukes run up the cost of goods and services with their greedy bloated wages and inefficient work ethics.

Why do you stupid Libtards prefer collectivism over personal liberty? You think humans are goddamn ants or something? You idiot Moon Bats are slaves to big government.

Unions are vile greedy corrupt socialist shithead organizations. Piss on them.

The asshole corrupt Union bosses want the rank and file Union workers to vote for Democrats but many of the Union workers (who were forced to joining the Union by oppressive laws in the anti right to work states) will vote for Trump.

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

So you prefer lower paying jobs for us.

When Americans started purchasing foreign cars it was led by Progs. When the oil crisis hit twice our auto industry was shown to be an emperor with no clothes. There was up to 10% rule for foreign cars at one time. But so many people liked them they slowly got rid of it and also got them to build plants in our nation. Auto unions held our nation hostage. You wonder if they made a bit less if they would have survived much better. Car dealers and repair shops have done their job also on the consumer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are confused Moon Bat.

Billionaires pay tons of taxes and creates millions of jobs. Union pukes run up the cost of goods and services with their greedy bloated wages and inefficient work ethics.

Why do you stupid Libtards prefer collectivism over personal liberty? You think humans are goddamn ants or something? You idiot Moon Bats are slaves to big government.

Unions are vile greedy corrupt socialist shithead organizations. Piss on them.

The asshole corrupt Union bosses want the rank and file Union workers to vote for Democrats but many of the Union workers (who were forced to joining the Union by oppressive laws in the anti right to work states) will vote for Trump.

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

You are a perfect example of why the repub war on unions moved our jobs over seas. Thank you.

How did the Republicans move our jobs overseas?

It's the unions that moved our jobs overseas, trust me.

One of our customers is a crate producer. They make crates the size of suitcases to the size of tractor-trailers. When I was delivering those crates to companies moving out of state or out of the country, I took the liberty to talk about it with the supervisor or owner.

None of these real Americans wanted to move their company, but had no choice. There was no way to compete with foreign imports having unions. Some of the companies had meetings with their employees explaining the situation. The union told them the company was FOS. They could afford their demands but were making up BS so they didn't have to pay the workers, and of course, ultimately the union.

Well, the union was wrong and the company was honest. They packed up and moved, and the union didn't even try to save those jobs for their workers.

I remember one place was a printing company of some kind. I asked one of the workers if it wouldn't be worth it to have their unions make some concession to save their jobs? He replied no it wouldn't. The union promised him that once the company closed it's doors, they would find him another union job.

I bet today that loser thinks back of what an idiot the union made out of him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are confused Moon Bat.

Billionaires pay tons of taxes and creates millions of jobs. Union pukes run up the cost of goods and services with their greedy bloated wages and inefficient work ethics.

Why do you stupid Libtards prefer collectivism over personal liberty? You think humans are goddamn ants or something? You idiot Moon Bats are slaves to big government.

Unions are vile greedy corrupt socialist shithead organizations. Piss on them.

The asshole corrupt Union bosses want the rank and file Union workers to vote for Democrats but many of the Union workers (who were forced to joining the Union by oppressive laws in the anti right to work states) will vote for Trump.

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

So you prefer lower paying jobs for us.

So what's better, lower paying jobs or no jobs?

 

[pknopp]

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

You are a perfect example of why the repub war on unions moved our jobs over seas. Thank you.

How did the Republicans move our jobs overseas?

It's the unions that moved our jobs overseas, trust me.

One of our customers is a crate producer. They make crates the size of suitcases to the size of tractor-trailers. When I was delivering those crates to companies moving out of state or out of the country, I took the liberty to talk about it with the supervisor or owner.

None of these real Americans wanted to move their company, but had no choice. There was no way to compete with foreign imports having unions. Some of the companies had meetings with their employees explaining the situation. The union told them the company was FOS. They could afford their demands but were making up BS so they didn't have to pay the workers, and of course, ultimately the union.

Well, the union was wrong and the company was honest. They packed up and moved, and the union didn't even try to save those jobs for their workers.

I remember one place was a printing company of some kind. I asked one of the workers if it wouldn't be worth it to have their unions make some concession to save their jobs? He replied no it wouldn't. The union promised him that once the company closed it's doors, they would find him another union job.

I bet today that loser thinks back of what an idiot the union made out of him.

Somehow Germany did it. Funny but the argument is we are the greatest country on Earth but we can't seem to do the things other countries can do.

 

[otto105]

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

You are a perfect example of why the repub war on unions moved our jobs over seas. Thank you.

How did the Republicans move our jobs overseas?

It's the unions that moved our jobs overseas, trust me.

One of our customers is a crate producer. They make crates the size of suitcases to the size of tractor-trailers. When I was delivering those crates to companies moving out of state or out of the country, I took the liberty to talk about it with the supervisor or owner.

None of these real Americans wanted to move their company, but had no choice. There was no way to compete with foreign imports having unions. Some of the companies had meetings with their employees explaining the situation. The union told them the company was FOS. They could afford their demands but were making up BS so they didn't have to pay the workers, and of course, ultimately the union.

Well, the union was wrong and the company was honest. They packed up and moved, and the union didn't even try to save those jobs for their workers.

I remember one place was a printing company of some kind. I asked one of the workers if it wouldn't be worth it to have their unions make some concession to save their jobs? He replied no it wouldn't. The union promised him that once the company closed it's doors, they would find him another union job.

I bet today that loser thinks back of what an idiot the union made out of him.

That is utter bullshit.

Major textile companies used to be located in northern cities (many may have had unions) then they moved to southern non-union low wage and low/no benefit states. By your logic that should be were they still are, but no. Corporations moved from those low wage and low/no benefits states to even lower labor costs in Mexico and then to China. Then they moved from that low wage nation to even lower wage sweatshops in other nations.

And ray from space, republican in the 1980 loved and pushed "outsourcing" You know what the is, right?


Clean it up ray.

 

[otto105]

They wouldn’t be billionaires without those workers . Unions help the workers get their fair value .

You cons act as if the purpose of the country is to offer us as fodder to the super rich .

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

So you prefer lower paying jobs for us.

So what's better, lower paying jobs or no jobs?

Lowest common denominator ray is in with the latest business sellout.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My point, if anyone could please take the time to actually READ my post, is that people with only a high school diploma can't command the wages to own a home and support a wife and children on his salary alone like he could during the glory days of manufacturing and unions. That is all I'm saying. Sure people do those jobs. They paint houses and patch roofs and cut evergreen tips for Christmas wreaths and work gutting and fileting fish at the raised salmon factory. They can do stuff. They are not "middle class." I was not calling them lazy, Bruce.

You do know Plumbers make damn good money, right?

It does not require a four year, five year, eight year or even ten year degree from some college either...

Also you should check the Starting wages for Sealy Mattress outside Houston and then look at the cost of living before stating a young person can not live off that wage!

Maybe you should study the jobs first and then comment because a young adult can obtain a decent paying job but it mean they need to work and that is something many in today time refuse to do!

Walmart to hire hundreds of truck drivers, raise salary to nearly $90,000

Then factor in jobs created from Mechanics to everything from people working and yet people can not find a decent paying job unless it is union or they get a degree in liberal arts major...

Well that is how the left think Unions are needed today...

The left (like Warren) are ignorant of our past. Unions were good at one time, but like anything else that gets too big, they also got too greedy.

I would love for her to explain the dynamics of her plot. How is government going to force unions into industry? Even if they could, and industry was forced to overpay labor, who would buy their products? Certainly not the American consumer. Certainly not foreign consumers. Who is going to buy all this union made stuff?

Maybe she has a plan to force us to buy American made goods, like DumBama forced us to buy healthcare insurance. How did that work out?

Funny this from the same people who argue that Trump is going to bring jobs back from China.

Seems you think people are then going to pay higher prices gladly?

Companies do whatever is cost effective.

First rule of thumb is to make products closer to your customers. Not only does that decrease your shipping costs, but you can provide the product much quicker which makes the customer happy.

Next is overseas transportation costs. Even if you get cheaper labor overseas, the transportation costs outweigh that, so you keep jobs in the US.

When unions, costly regulations, taxes, make it cheaper to produce overseas with the transportation costs, that's when it's time to move, and that's what companies did.

Now that Trump reduced regulations, reduced taxes, and made the US generally business friendly, companies in China who are harmed by tariffs may come back to the US eventually. If not, they will choose another cheap labor country like India, Brazil, Vietnam. But again, if the transportation costs are too much, they will move back to the US.

This trade war is long from over, so many companies are simply monitoring the unfolding events before making a final decision. Between that and the next election, those will be the deal makers or breakers. If Democrats take leadership again, that means higher taxes for businesses, and China returns as our trading partners taking full advantage of us. It makes no sense to move all your operations when it's still cheaper to produce in China.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

You are a perfect example of why the repub war on unions moved our jobs over seas. Thank you.

How did the Republicans move our jobs overseas?

It's the unions that moved our jobs overseas, trust me.

One of our customers is a crate producer. They make crates the size of suitcases to the size of tractor-trailers. When I was delivering those crates to companies moving out of state or out of the country, I took the liberty to talk about it with the supervisor or owner.

None of these real Americans wanted to move their company, but had no choice. There was no way to compete with foreign imports having unions. Some of the companies had meetings with their employees explaining the situation. The union told them the company was FOS. They could afford their demands but were making up BS so they didn't have to pay the workers, and of course, ultimately the union.

Well, the union was wrong and the company was honest. They packed up and moved, and the union didn't even try to save those jobs for their workers.

I remember one place was a printing company of some kind. I asked one of the workers if it wouldn't be worth it to have their unions make some concession to save their jobs? He replied no it wouldn't. The union promised him that once the company closed it's doors, they would find him another union job.

I bet today that loser thinks back of what an idiot the union made out of him.

Somehow Germany did it. Funny but the argument is we are the greatest country on Earth but we can't seem to do the things other countries can do.

There is much more solidarity in Europe than in the US. A European will buy their own products at twice the cost of anything made outside of the union.

After the 80's recession, American consumers lost their patriotism for their fellow workers. The new motto was getting stuff cheap. It didn't matter who made it, the quality, or support for US labor, as long as it was the cheapest, we bought it.

Industry soon realized this and kept their goals of satisfying the consumer. Eventually American made products became impossible to buy. It's still metastasizing today.

As time went on, more inventions were created that we all wanted, and the dollar had to stretch even farther; most on entertainment.

Cell phones, video games, internet, computers, cable television, big screen televisions, movie services were all things we never had in the 70's. Today......they are almost a necessity.

 

[otto105]

You do know Plumbers make damn good money, right?

It does not require a four year, five year, eight year or even ten year degree from some college either...

Also you should check the Starting wages for Sealy Mattress outside Houston and then look at the cost of living before stating a young person can not live off that wage!

Maybe you should study the jobs first and then comment because a young adult can obtain a decent paying job but it mean they need to work and that is something many in today time refuse to do!

Walmart to hire hundreds of truck drivers, raise salary to nearly $90,000

Then factor in jobs created from Mechanics to everything from people working and yet people can not find a decent paying job unless it is union or they get a degree in liberal arts major...

Well that is how the left think Unions are needed today...

The left (like Warren) are ignorant of our past. Unions were good at one time, but like anything else that gets too big, they also got too greedy.

I would love for her to explain the dynamics of her plot. How is government going to force unions into industry? Even if they could, and industry was forced to overpay labor, who would buy their products? Certainly not the American consumer. Certainly not foreign consumers. Who is going to buy all this union made stuff?

Maybe she has a plan to force us to buy American made goods, like DumBama forced us to buy healthcare insurance. How did that work out?

Funny this from the same people who argue that Trump is going to bring jobs back from China.

Seems you think people are then going to pay higher prices gladly?

Companies do whatever is cost effective.

First rule of thumb is to make products closer to your customers. Not only does that decrease your shipping costs, but you can provide the product much quicker which makes the customer happy.

Next is overseas transportation costs. Even if you get cheaper labor overseas, the transportation costs outweigh that, so you keep jobs in the US.

When unions, costly regulations, taxes, make it cheaper to produce overseas with the transportation costs, that's when it's time to move, and that's what companies did.

Now that Trump reduced regulations, reduced taxes, and made the US generally business friendly, companies in China who are harmed by tariffs may come back to the US eventually. If not, they will choose another cheap labor country like India, Brazil, Vietnam. But again, if the transportation costs are too much, they will move back to the US.

This trade war is long from over, so many companies are simply monitoring the unfolding events before making a final decision. Between that and the next election, those will be the deal makers or breakers. If Democrats take leadership again, that means higher taxes for businesses, and China returns as our trading partners taking full advantage of us. It makes no sense to move all your operations when it's still cheaper to produce in China.

Ray, that is just more bullshit.

Explain for all us the outright failure of the government polices your seem to mention by using the state of Kansas. You k now the test tube of small government pro-business policies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No.
Unions are not what they once were. Their contribution to the average American is indeed one of the most important factors, if not THE most important factor in creating the middle class.
That was pre 1970.
After 1970, union manufacturers were waste deep in pension funding as well as financing extraordinary benefit packages.
The old saying "too much of a good thing is never a good thing" applies.
Take my father. He began working for GM in 1968. He retired at 52 after working 28 years. FIFTY TWO. How?
It was 1993. GM began early buyouts once realizing pension funding was eventually, and literally going to bankrupt the company. (which of course that and other problems it did) My Dad dies two years ago at 78 years old. My mother is still alive. Beginning in 1993 to 2017 Dad received 80% pension. 24 years. My mother still receives that pension. She has a good chance of living for at least 5 years more, but probably 10. If so that means Dad & Mom received a pension for 34 years. Six years longer than he worked there. Not to mention they both have health insurance provided.
That is not sustainable. Especially in the global market we live in today.

US car companies began to cheapen the parts and engineering in their vehicles to makeup for those legacy costs. Foreign car companies invested their money into superior parts and engineering, and were able to avoid the unions. The unions they do have are nothing like the UAW unions.

I just bought a used car from Toyota, this is my third Camry. It's a 2016, and the car has 20,000 miles on it. It came with a two year, 20,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. The finance guy wanted to sell me an extended 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty for $1,700. I told him the reason I came back to Toyota for a car is because they never break down, so the cost of the extended warranty would likely not be a good investment. We haggled, and he got me to buy that extended warranty for $1,200. It comes with free towing, car rental while mine is in the shop, tire changes on the road, every five years a protective wax coating, and the least thing that malfunctions, they will take care of it for free.

American cars can't offer you the same coverage, because they'd lose money. My last American made car, the mechanic drove it more than I did after 30,000 miles.

Recently my wife and I decided to get new vehicles. She drives a SUV and me a pickup. We like to pollute the environment with CO2 just to piss off the Environmental Wackos.

I could have got a Ford F-150. One of the few good vehicles made by American car manufacturers. Instead I bought a Toyota Tundra. For about the same package the Ford was cheaper. However, the Tundra was made in Texas in a non UAW plant. That was the deciding factor for me. Great vehicle.

My wife got a Honda Pilot. We didn't even consider any American made SUV.

**** the UAW and the chickenshit American car companies that kiss their ass and turn out shitty vehicles.

You are a perfect example of why the repub war on unions moved our jobs over seas. Thank you.

How did the Republicans move our jobs overseas?

It's the unions that moved our jobs overseas, trust me.

One of our customers is a crate producer. They make crates the size of suitcases to the size of tractor-trailers. When I was delivering those crates to companies moving out of state or out of the country, I took the liberty to talk about it with the supervisor or owner.

None of these real Americans wanted to move their company, but had no choice. There was no way to compete with foreign imports having unions. Some of the companies had meetings with their employees explaining the situation. The union told them the company was FOS. They could afford their demands but were making up BS so they didn't have to pay the workers, and of course, ultimately the union.

Well, the union was wrong and the company was honest. They packed up and moved, and the union didn't even try to save those jobs for their workers.

I remember one place was a printing company of some kind. I asked one of the workers if it wouldn't be worth it to have their unions make some concession to save their jobs? He replied no it wouldn't. The union promised him that once the company closed it's doors, they would find him another union job.

I bet today that loser thinks back of what an idiot the union made out of him.

That is utter bullshit.

Major textile companies used to be located in northern cities (many may have had unions) then they moved to southern non-union low wage and low/no benefit states. By your logic that should be were they still are, but no. Corporations moved from those low wage and low/no benefits states to even lower labor costs in Mexico and then to China. Then they moved from that low wage nation to even lower wage sweatshops in other nations.

And ray from space, republican in the 1980 loved and pushed "outsourcing" You know what the is, right?


Clean it up ray.

I don't recall that, and I was in my 20's in the 80's. Tell me why would any Republican push outsourcing? What benefit was it to them?