Perhaps another GREAT JOB Trump - apparently on the phone with Putin, and an hour later they had a cease fire agreement.

[Zavulon]

I expect lots of DIPLOMANCY when it comes to peace talks. ie, people will say lots of meaningless shit and then comes to terms.

We'll see. Talking about Ukraine - they say lots of meaningless shit, comes to terms and then do a lot of meaningless shit instead of fulfilling their obligations. Whatever Trump said and done - any random American judge can undone. Whatever Zelenskiy said - Nazi regiments (controlled directly by Britain or EU countries) can easily undone.

Zelenski does not strike me as a man who is strong vs pressure. And Putin strikes me as someone who doesn't want to waste good men (or money) on a losing venture.

The problem is that he isn't strong under British or European pressure either. He is just a paid clown.

Except, that GENOCIDE, the word, does mean INTENTION. So, if there was not intention, then there was not genocide.

Of course there was genocide. Intentional or unintentional.

Correct. There were a lot more indians in the spanish areas.

There were a lot Indians in British areas either.

Fight back.

Really? How?

gdp per capital of 54k vs 15k. That's a LOT RICHER. That is the difference of people living or dying due to proper nutrition or medical care.

GDP is not about wealth. Its more about financial activity. Talking about proper medical care, or, especially, nutrition in the UK is more than ridiculous. Their food is shit, their healthcare is poor, they don't even have enough of warmth during "winters".

Any real russian nationalist would WANT that for their people.

Man, the mayors of London and many large cities are Muslims. Any Russian nationalist would kill even for talking about such possibilities in Russia.

Oooh, no good the way you "forgot" what we were discussing and changed the subject on me to score a point. Such games I expect from dems and leftards.

We were discussing MAGA's attempt to fix America's internal problems. And we are making good progress.

First of all, you won't be able to solve any problems if you don't free your hands. Second - nuclear exchange with Russia hardly will help you to solve your internal problems.

 

[Correll]

We'll see. Talking about Ukraine - they say lots of meaningless shit, comes to terms and then do a lot of meaningless shit instead of fulfilling their obligations. Whatever Trump said and done - any random American judge can undone. Whatever Zelenskiy said - Nazi regiments (controlled directly by Britain or EU countries) can easily undone.

Trump will not let the tail wag the dog. If Zelenski tries playing Trump, he, zelenski is going to get fucked.

That could work out very well for Russia.

...


Of course there was genocide. Intentional or unintentional.

Genocide requires intent. Having a sickly sailor in your crew that carries a bug to a new place, is not intent. YOu are being silly.

There were a lot Indians in British areas either.

Nope. Most of the territory was empty. Especially after the various diseases swept though.

Really? How?

Control the border, deport the illegals, and defund the lefty advocacy groups who are basically anti-American traitors.

That will be a good start.

GDP is not about wealth. Its more about financial activity. Talking about proper medical care, or, especially, nutrition in the UK is more than ridiculous. Their food is shit, their healthcare is poor, they don't even have enough of warmth during "winters".

You are coping. You need less coping and more fixing problems. We all do. But we are discussing YOU right now.

Man, the mayors of London and many large cities are Muslims. Any Russian nationalist would kill even for talking about such possibilities in Russia.

My point was that their choices to stop fighting each other, allowed them to build wealth. That TODAY, their descendants are retarded fools, is different issue.

First of all, you won't be able to solve any problems if you don't free your hands. Second - nuclear exchange with Russia hardly will help you to solve your internal problems.

There will be no nuclear exchange. Instead there will be a peace deal, that will hold for many years.

 

[Zavulon]

Trump will not let the tail wag the dog. If Zelenski tries playing Trump, he, zelenski is going to get fucked.

That could work out very well for Russia.

As much as I can see, Europe and Ukraine already bended Trump.

Genocide requires intent. Having a sickly sailor in your crew that carries a bug to a new place, is not intent. YOu are being silly.

Genocidal culture doesn't require intent of genocide. It might be specific pattern of behaviour.

Nope. Most of the territory was empty. Especially after the various diseases swept though.

Really? America took 2/3 of Mexican territory (with significant Indian population). What percentage of English-speaking population of former Mexican territory has even minimal Infian heritage?

Control the border, deport the illegals, and defund the lefty advocacy groups who are basically anti-American traitors.

They will fight back. And, highly likely, Mexico and other Latino-American nations will support them.

You are coping. You need less coping and more fixing problems. We all do. But we are discussing YOU right now.

You show us an example that you suggest us to follow. You know nothing about actual Russian problems (and it' neither place, nor time to discuss them), and those examples are poor. I'm rather liberal person, but what you suggest "Make love, not war" is more than leftist BS. It might be a "leftists BS" if Ukraine and Europe were somewhere in another hemisphere and were not killing Russian people. Sparing people who are actually killing you isn't even "stupid". Its "suicidal".

My point was that their choices to stop fighting each other, allowed them to build wealth.

The peace between European states make possible their colonial expansions. Like "we, Europeans vs the rest of the world". Thats was the basic source of their wealth.

That TODAY, their descendants are retarded fools, is different issue.

It's pretty the same. If England and France make peace with each other, they can take wealth from, say, Muslims. If England and France make peace with Muslims, then Muslims will come to them and took their wealth.

There will be no nuclear exchange.

Really? What actual steps of de-escalation (short of empty rhetoric) did you make?

Instead there will be a peace deal, that will hold for many years.

If Russia and America make a peace deal vs Europe and Ukraine - then, yes, we'll be able to took wealth from Europe. But if, what is much more likely, America will try to make peace deal with Europe and Ukraine to take wealth from Russia and China, there will be large-scale nuclear war this fall.

 

[Correll]

As much as I can see, Europe and Ukraine already bended Trump.

Time will tell. And proably in a matter of weeks.

Genocidal culture doesn't require intent of genocide. It might be specific pattern of behaviour.

"Genocidal CULTURE"? now? LOL.

Not sure why this is important to you. YOur russian history is longer and darker than ours. OWN it. You don't need to feel shame or talk shit on others becase of it.

Really? America took 2/3 of Mexican territory (with significant Indian population). What percentage of English-speaking population of former Mexican territory has even minimal "

"Significant"? That''s shit talk. You have no idea what the indian population was of those states at that time.


You are just saying that, to justify yourself, by holding America to a "genocide".

They will fight back. And, highly likely, Mexico and other Latino-American nations will support them.

They will not. They have only been enpowered to do as much as they have, by the complete idiocy of our political class. The moment that the us decides to use our power, the contest is over.

You show us an example that you suggest us to follow. You know nothing about actual Russian problems (and it' neither place, nor time to discuss them), and those examples are poor. I'm rather liberal person, but what you suggest "Make love, not war" is more than leftist BS. It might be a "leftists BS" if Ukraine and Europe were somewhere in another hemisphere and were not killing Russian people. Sparing people who are actually killing you isn't even "stupid". Its "suicidal".

IF, Putin really, really, wants to keep feeding russian men into a meatgrinder, he can do that.

I think he will make peace.

The peace between European states make possible their colonial expansions. Like "we, Europeans vs the rest of the world". Thats was the basic source of their wealth.

NOt sure that is true. Lot of wars over colonies and during that period of expansion.

It's pretty the same. If England and France make peace with each other, they can take wealth from, say, Muslims. If England and France make peace with Muslims, then Muslims will come to them and took their wealth.

I don't see the connection nor the similarity.

Really? What actual steps of de-escalation (short of empty rhetoric) did you make?

I prefer to call it, DIPLOMANCY. And putin will accept.

If Russia and America make a peace deal vs Europe and Ukraine - then, yes, we'll be able to took wealth from Europe. But if, what is much more likely, America will try to make peace deal with Europe and Ukraine to take wealth from Russia and China, there will be large-scale nuclear war this fall.

YOu are confused. Putin hopefully is more connected with better info than that.

 

[Zavulon]

Time will tell. And proably in a matter of weeks.

Ok. We'll see.

"Genocidal CULTURE"? now? LOL.

Yep. The behaviour patterns. Oversimplificating and exaggerating I'd say, that Spanish colonists were "evil" guys (lusty and lazy) - during their colonisation of Indian lands, they were raping local girls, and they were forcing local boys to work and fight for them. But in result - great part of Native American genes survived and multiplicated. English colonists were "good" guys - they worked by themselves and they were mating local girls only in the case of "true love". But true love cases was rare and local Indians were forced from their land into degradation and oblivion. Bad intentions caused survival of local population, and good intentions caused genocide.

Not sure why this is important to you. YOur russian history is longer and darker than ours. OWN it. You don't need to feel shame or talk shit on others becase of it.

I don't blame you. You are what you are, and I accept it. But it was you, who said that genocide isn't American thing (it is), and it is one of the reasons why the world won't accept Pax Americana (and even prefer nuclear war in which, say, 2/3 of the world will die out).

You are just saying that, to justify yourself, by holding America to a "genocide".

I don't need justification. When it was necessary, Russians committed genocide, too.

They will not. They have only been enpowered to do as much as they have, by the complete idiocy of our political class. The moment that the us decides to use our power, the contest is over.

Loud words, but still no actions.

IF, Putin really, really, wants to keep feeding russian men into a meatgrinder, he can do that.

I think he will make peace.

We don't want to keep feeding Russian men into a meatgrinder, we will make peace. We'll make reliable peace with eradication of the roots of evil - NATO expansion and Ukrainian Banderlogs.

NOt sure that is true. Lot of wars over colonies and during that period of expansion.

Short periods of "central wars" between Great Powers and longer periods of "peripheral wars" between Great Powers and future colonies.

I don't see the connection nor the similarity.

It's simple. Vivere militare est. Life is fighting. You need to fight to keep what is rightfully yours and you need to fight if you want to take something else. If you decide not to fight at all, other people will come and take what it yours.

I prefer to call it, DIPLOMANCY. And putin will accept.

Highly unlikely. I don't like Putin, but he isn't a kind of person to take a bad deal. And even if he take it - he'll be removed from his position (and likely killed) by other Russians.

 

[Correll]

Ok. We'll see.


Yep. The behaviour patterns. Oversimplificating and exaggerating I'd say, that Spanish colonists were "evil" guys (lusty and lazy) - during their colonisation of Indian lands, they were raping local girls, and they were forcing local boys to work and fight for them. But in result - great part of Native American genes survived and multiplicated. English colonists were "good" guys - they worked by themselves and they were mating local girls only in the case of "true love". But true love cases was rare and local Indians were forced from their land into degradation and oblivion. Bad intentions caused survival of local population, and good intentions caused genocide.

Nope. Lower population led to lower population later on. Simple enough.

The aztec and incans had real cities, huge. The tribes in the north, did not. They had at most a few sizable towns. And I do mean a few.

I don't blame you. You are what you are, and I accept it. But it was you, who said that genocide isn't American thing (it is), and it is one of the reasons why the world won't accept Pax Americana (and even prefer nuclear war in which, say, 2/3 of the world will die out).


I don't need justification. When it was necessary, Russians committed genocide, too.

World has and continues to accept PAX AMERICANA. The europeans whine but still follow. They are ungrateful children. Not really a good role model.

Loud words, but still no actions.

The deportations are happening NOW. And the RESISTANCE is shit talk from the libtards.

We don't want to keep feeding Russian men into a meatgrinder, we will make peace. We'll make reliable peace with eradication of the roots of evil - NATO expansion and Ukrainian Banderlogs.

You can try. We can't stop you from trying.

Short periods of "central wars" between Great Powers and longer periods of "peripheral wars" between Great Powers and future colonies.


It's simple. Vivere militare est. Life is fighting. You need to fight to keep what is rightfully yours and you need to fight if you want to take something else. If you decide not to fight at all, other people will come and take what it yours.


Highly unlikely. I don't like Putin, but he isn't a kind of person to take a bad deal. And even if he take it - he'll be removed from his position (and likely killed) by other Russians.

I agree, Putin is not type to take bad deal. Which is why he will be open to a....to an OK deal, where Russia can keep what they have taken and start rebuilding from the damage of this war.

 

[Zavulon]

Nope. Lower population led to lower population later on. Simple enough.

Not that low.

You can try. We can't stop you from trying.

But you can minimise your own losses by leaving Eastern Europe.

I agree, Putin is not type to take bad deal. Which is why he will be open to a....to an OK deal, where Russia can keep what they have taken and start rebuilding from the damage of this war.

For what practical reason? We can take much more by continue elimination of Banderlogs and their allies. May be, we'll even return Alaska and California.

 

[Correll]

Not that low.

Yes, that low. They were stone age hunter gatherers. Why do you think there were more of them?

But you can minimise your own losses by leaving Eastern Europe.


For what practical reason? We can take much more by continue elimination of Banderlogs and their allies. May be, we'll even return Alaska and California.

Seems unlikely. The choice is meatgrinder or cut a deal.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Zavulon]

Yes, that low. They were stone age hunter gatherers. Why do you think there were more of them?

There were 100% of them before arrival of English colonists. Now, its slightly above zero.
Finno-hungarian tribes were also hunter-gatheres before arrival of Slavic colonists. Now, there is 20% of their genes in modern Russian population.

Seems unlikely. The choice is meatgrinder or cut a deal.

No. The choice is:
1) Ceasefire and prepation for soon to be resumed war (for nobody will leave twenty million of Russians under Kievan regime control, or allow NATO concentrate forces in Eastern Europe).
2) escalation for de-escalation (say, escalation to local or regional war levels of violence);
3) direct attack against the USA (limited counter-force strike) and taking everything we want.

I don't think we need a pause (for pause might cause more problems than escalation), hence the choice is between NATO rolling back to, at least 1997 borders and escalation (with elimination of the USA as a possible outcome).

 

[Zavulon]

Seems unlikely. The choice is meatgrinder or cut a deal.

And even if the choice is between cutting the fake "deal", which won't be fulfilled neither by Ukraine, nor by the EU, nor by the USA (with only outcomes with additional expenses for Russia and Russian people) and continuing of "meatgrinder" in which all Banderlogs will be eliminated in no more than 2 years and achieving a decisive victory (with at least 15 mln Russian people saved and the whole Ukraine liberated) - the latter is definitely preferred.

 

[Correll]

There were 100% of them before arrival of English colonists. Now, its slightly above zero.
Finno-hungarian tribes were also hunter-gatheres before arrival of Slavic colonists. Now, there is 20% of their genes in modern Russian population.

Interesting. No mention of numbers or what happened to those number or how it went...

That's meaningful and informative. On how much you are willing to just throw shit at a wall, to try to spin this, in your need to hold on to the little bit of shit you think you have on US.

No. The choice is:
1) Ceasefire and prepation for soon to be resumed war (for nobody will leave twenty million of Russians under Kievan regime control, or allow NATO concentrate forces in Eastern Europe).
2) escalation for de-escalation (say, escalation to local or regional war levels of violence);
3) direct attack against the USA (limited counter-force strike) and taking everything we want.

I don't think we need a pause (for pause might cause more problems than escalation), hence the choice is between NATO rolling back to, at least 1997 borders and escalation (with elimination of the USA as a possible outcome).

Yeah, you insisting on counting all the ukrainians as russians, is you not being honest about it.


I think Putin realizes that what he thought was going to be a good policy, ie a 3 day special operation, turned into a meatgrinder, and it is time to cut a deal.

 

[Correll]

And even if the choice is between cutting the fake "deal", which won't be fulfilled neither by Ukraine, nor by the EU, nor by the USA (with only outcomes with additional expenses for Russia and Russian people) and continuing of "meatgrinder" in which all Banderlogs will be eliminated in no more than 2 years and achieving a decisive victory (with at least 15 mln Russian people saved and the whole Ukraine liberated) - the latter is definitely preferred.

I was talking to a buddy who is ver pro-Ukraine.

He is against a deal because he fears that Russia could rearm better adn faster than Ukraine and be ready for a round two in short order.


Question. Why do you NOT think this?

 

[Zavulon]

Interesting. No mention of numbers or what happened to those number or how it went...

Details of the process are not that important, what is even more important - the scientist doesn't have good information about early stages of Slavic or Russian colonisation either (and what they have its quite often a propaganda).

That's meaningful and informative. On how much you are willing to just throw shit at a wall, to try to spin this, in your need to hold on to the little bit of shit you think you have on US.

I like the USA. I'm on your side. As I said, an average British colonists was (especially in the terms of Protestant morale) better person than an average Spanish conquistador in Latin America or Russian cossack in Middle Asia. But there is no reason to denie the reality. English colonisation was genocidal, and may be it was exactly because of your best intentions.

Yeah, you insisting on counting all the ukrainians as russians, is you not being honest about it.

I do see Ukrainians as Russians, many people do. But even when we count them as non-Russians (or they count themselves as non-Russians, what is often correct for Western Ukraine) it doesn't change a thing. Chechens are not Russians, but they we schooled how to live in one state with the Russians and all the terrorists among them were eliminated. Ukrainains can live with their identity (and actually, Russian government accept it) but Banderovci won't live.

I think Putin realizes that what he thought was going to be a good policy, ie a 3 day special operation, turned into a meatgrinder, and it is time to cut a deal.

Then think one more time. From the very start of the SMO Putin openly declared that we prefer nuclear war to our alleviation. We prefer conventional victory with relatively low losses to a nuclear victory, but we definitely prefer nuclear war (or ten-year long conventional low-level conflict) to our alleviation.
And anyway, Trump doesn't control Ukraine, Europe or even half of the USA. There is no chance that he can suggest an acceptable deal.

 

[Zavulon]

I was talking to a buddy who is ver pro-Ukraine.

He is against a deal because he fears that Russia could rearm better adn faster than Ukraine and be ready for a round two in short order.


Question. Why do you NOT think this?

Mostly because I think we don't need a ceasefire for the round two. We can finish Ukraine in the round one. Few more years and there will be no adult males in Ukraine at all.
What is may be even more important, ceasefire may mean cease of sanctions and recuperation of European industrial capabilities. And, with cheap Russian energy Europe may try to rearm better and faster than Russia. I don't think they actually can, but I don't want to underestimate them and give them a chance. Right now we definitely have the upper hand, but who knows, what can happen in few years?

 

[Deadstick]

We'll see. Talking about Ukraine - they say lots of meaningless shit, comes to terms and then do a lot of meaningless shit instead of fulfilling their obligations. Whatever Trump said and done - any random American judge can undone. Whatever Zelenskiy said - Nazi regiments (controlled directly by Britain or EU countries) can easily undone.

The problem is that he isn't strong under British or European pressure either. He is just a paid clown.


Of course there was genocide. Intentional or unintentional.


There were a lot Indians in British areas either.



Really? How?


GDP is not about wealth. Its more about financial activity. Talking about proper medical care, or, especially, nutrition in the UK is more than ridiculous. Their food is shit, their healthcare is poor, they don't even have enough of warmth during "winters".


Man, the mayors of London and many large cities are Muslims. Any Russian nationalist would kill even for talking about such possibilities in Russia.


First of all, you won't be able to solve any problems if you don't free your hands. Second - nuclear exchange with Russia hardly will help you to solve your internal problems.

Russia doesn't have the same Colonial history of Colonialism in the Indian subcontinent thats why there are no Mayors of Pakistani heritage.

 

[Zavulon]

Russia doesn't have the same Colonial history of Colonialism in the Indian subcontinent thats why there are no Mayors of Pakistani heritage.

Yep. But its just a part of question. Correll suggested to act as the Brits, if we want to live as the Brits. As far as I know - ordinary Brits are quite poor guys. They don't own houses they live (and those houses are cold and uncomfortable), their kitchen is really disgusting (ok, its a matter of taste and custom), many if them can't afford proper medical care, there are a lot of not-assimilated foreigners (who act according their own traditions) and so on...

 

[Correll]

Details of the process are not that important, what is even more important - the scientist doesn't have good information about early stages of Slavic or Russian colonisation either (and what they have its quite often a propaganda).

DETAILS such as INTENT, and ACTIONS, are important.

I like the USA. I'm on your side. As I said, an average British colonists was (especially in the terms of Protestant morale) better person than an average Spanish conquistador in Latin America or Russian cossack in Middle Asia. But there is no reason to denie the reality. English colonisation was genocidal, and may be it was exactly because of your best intentions.

I hope that you are not sinking to the level of playing semantic games. That is something I expect more from libs.

I do see Ukrainians as Russians, many people do. But even when we count them as non-Russians (or they count themselves as non-Russians, what is often correct for Western Ukraine) it doesn't change a thing. Chechens are not Russians, but they we schooled how to live in one state with the Russians and all the terrorists among them were eliminated. Ukrainains can live with their identity (and actually, Russian government accept it) but Banderovci won't live.

It was a possibility when you invaded. NOw it looks very unlikely. Time to face that reality and make policy accordingly.

Then think one more time. From the very start of the SMO Putin openly declared that we prefer nuclear war to our alleviation. We prefer conventional victory with relatively low losses to a nuclear victory, but we definitely prefer nuclear war (or ten-year long conventional low-level conflict) to our alleviation.
And anyway, Trump doesn't control Ukraine, Europe or even half of the USA. There is no chance that he can suggest an acceptable deal.

OR, just saying, you could NOT do that. And instead survive and live, and even work on THRIVING.

No reason you can't. You haven't yet, but that is not to say that if you put your mind to it, you CAN'T.

 

[Deadstick]

Yep. But its just a part of question. Correll suggested to act as the Brits, if we want to live as the Brits. As far as I know - ordinary Brits are quite poor guys. They don't own houses they live (and those houses are cold and uncomfortable), their kitchen is really disgusting (ok, its a matter of taste and custom), many if them can't afford proper medical care, there are a lot of not-assimilated foreigners (who act according their own traditions) and so on...

Part of that is true but not all, i worked hard all my life own my own house and thanks to the way i planned my working life i am not rich but many are worse off than me i have money in the bank and don't have any debts, over the years it was very hard at times, i have worked with men of Asian heritage most are just like anyone else look after their families and get on with their lives, i am still in touch with one or two who i worked with, as for housing we are in the situation where many can't afford an house and never will, or even rent one, the Tories spent years trashing our health service causing damage that i doubt can ever be repaired without drastic action, the UK is screwed.

 

[Zavulon]

DETAILS such as INTENT, and ACTIONS, are important.

They are important if we are talking about individual persons or morality or something. But if we are talking about survival or different strategies of colonisation or genodynamics, or other things in the long terms, intents and individual actions are simply irrelevant. And if you are at the other end of a barrel, the motivation of your murderer isn't that important, too.
Some years ago I've read a series of fiction books "Russian Frontier". Alternative history, based on the fiction assumption that Russian Empire bought Mexico from Spain in the beginning of XIX century (do you know that famous story about Juno and Avos?), and established there proper Russian order. Mostly, of course, its simple adventures but different approaches in the competition for dominance on the Great Plains between the USA, France and Russian colonies were demonstrated quite colorfully.

I hope that you are not sinking to the level of playing semantic games. That is something I expect more from libs.

Definitions are important. And no, I'm a lib in some kind. "Live and allow live others" that's my credo.

It was a possibility when you invaded. NOw it looks very unlikely. Time to face that reality and make policy accordingly.

Reality is simple. We are winning and you can't stop us. You are already defeated. And the only question now is what price will you pay for your interference.

OR, just saying, you could NOT do that. And instead survive and live, and even work on THRIVING.

No reason you can't. You haven't yet, but that is not to say that if you put your mind to it, you CAN'T.

Of course we can. Basic conception is almost as old as nuclear weapons themselves. First - counter-force strike (with minimal civilian losses), generous peace offer after it (like you return us Alaska and California, but continue your existence as an independent state, nuclear power and member of SC UN). If you agree and don't retaliate - we've won. If you disagree and retaliate - we suffer rather moderate damage (no more than 10 mln killed) and you are totally annihilated by our third strike and we've won.