Pay Your Debts Snowflakes- Student Loans Just Got A Lot More Expensive

[jasonnfree]

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own fucking advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the fucking nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of fucking cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too fucking chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you fucking support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of fucking assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you bitch about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you fucking assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should fucking forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the fuck are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

First of all, who says they won't use the degree????? Second of all, the reason they are in debt is because in order to get that degree, they had to borrow. And they had to borrow because tuition went up. And tuition went up because the state cut education funding. And the state cut education funding because there's a budget deficit. And there's a budget deficit because revenues were cut. And revenues were cut because taxes were cut. And taxes were cut because Conservatives adhere to the stupidest economic policy ever dreamed up. And they adhere to that because they are dumb. And they're dumb because they don't have an education. And they don't have an education because they believe morons like you who say they don't need one. And you say they don't need one because you don't value higher education because it doesn't teach students that Jesus rode a triceratops, the Earth is 6,000 years old, and trickle down economics is legitimate.

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own fucking advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the fucking nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of fucking cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too fucking chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you fucking support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of fucking assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you bitch about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you fucking assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should fucking forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the fuck are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

Yaybe your stupid ass should realize that you're not going to move out of the "service" field and realize that the 73% of the job market /you/ are looking at getting into doesn't require more than a diploma from HS and save yourself the money.

And if you don't think that's a problem, then you need to reexamine your belief system. HS grads without a college degree earn less than half of those who have one. And BTW - the average wage for someone without a college degree ($23,000) qualifies them for many welfare benefits like SNAP (depending on household size) and Medicaid. So we are basically subsidizing, with welfare, your advocacy that people don't go to college. So you end up costing taxpayers because you don't want people to be educated. Educated people aren't likely to buy into the bullshit you are selling. That's really what your anti-college position is about. Don't lie. We're not as stupid as you. You're just that transparent.

Gee whiz, just keep raising taxes and pretty soon our problems will be solved. Taxes keep getting raised in california and people and businesses keep leaving. What dummies they are, right?

 

[The Derp]

Again, I think it depends. A lot of jobs aren't being filled, and a lot of people are getting degrees that are kind of useless. I think we should fund more STEM education, less "multi-cultural studies" horseshit.

STEM degrees are useless, actually. But whatever. It's hilarious to me that Conservatives think there should be more STEM degrees, yet when those who get STEM degrees warn of Climate Change, suddenly they're not to be trusted. So how's that work? You want people to get STEM degrees, yet you refuse to listen to them once they do. So you're really just jerking off on this board when you posture that you want more scientists and engineers. Why? You don't listen to what they say now, so why would you listen to them in the future? Why do you think they're necessary if you routinely and regularly refuse to accept what they say? Can you answer that question? Doubt it.

I just imagine an HR department looking at a girl who got her "Women's Studies" degree on her resume and thinks, "Yup, there's a Sexual Harassment Lawsuit looking for a place to happen. Good thing it won't be here."

If you think that, then you're an idiot. Plain and simple. HR employers cannot discriminate based on race or gender. If you think they do, then you clearly have never worked in the private sector ever. I think you're just a posturing shithead, but that's my opinion. I've seen very little from you to tell me otherwise.

 

[The Derp]

Personal attacks aside, this has zero to do with the blind rush to get a $30k bill for a degree you're never going to use...

It has everything to do with it. And when you say a "degree you never use", what the fuck are you even talking about? One of the major reasons one goes to college is to develop critical thinking skills (which you obviously lack). It's those critical thinking skills that lead a graduate to develop good workplace skills because they have spent 4 years being taught to think critically as a part of higher education. If you don't see the value in critical thinking, then you're probably a stupid person yourself who lacks the ability to exercise critical thinking and thus sucks up all the stupid bullshit (like how people don't need college degrees) Conservatives vomit out there like how cutting taxes somehow means more revenue, the Earth is 6,000 years old, Climate Change is not real, and deregulation is good for the economy. College graduates make nearly double what those with only a HS degree make. So all you're doing when you discourage people from going to college is lowering the average wages, making people less inclined to question dubious ideology, which results in a lowering of the living standard, which results in an increase in welfare spending because people without college degrees qualify for many welfare benefits as their average wage of $23K/yr is barely above the poverty line. Someone without a college degree is most likely going to have to rely on federal assistance programs like SNAP, Medicaid, and others. Most Walmart workers have no college degree, and we the taxpayers subsidize about $5B a year in welfare benefits for those workers. BTW - Walmart's profits last year were $14B. So we are subsidizing more than 1/3 of Walmart profits because they pay their non-college educated workforce such low wages.

 

[The Derp]

Again, personal attacks aside, this has /nothing/ to do with kids blindly rushing out for a $30k bill on a degree that they aren't going to use.

No one is "blindly rushing out" to get a college degree. If you want to make a decent living in this country, you have to have a degree. Furthermore, you keep saying people have a degree they aren't going to use. What the fuck does that even mean? Of course, it means nothing...it's just something that sounds clever to you in that empty little head of yours. Fact is, students take away more from college than just a piece of paper. They take away critical thinking skills, they take away exposure to new ideas they have been shielded from, they take away much more than just a piece of paper. I don't think you went to college yourself. It's funny to me that you pretend you did so you can be self-righteous in your assessment of education, ignoring the fact that students are burdened with debt because of your stupid trickle-down policies that reduced revenues, forcing states to increase tuition on students. 15 years ago, it was possible to go to a state school for next to nothing (if you were a resident). Nowadays, it costs students $30K to go to a state school that their parents most likely went to for 1/100th the cost. This isn't because of anything other than tax cuts...the governing ideology of the anti-intellectual morons that make up the entire Conservative movement today.

No tax cuts = no student debt

So again, it's hard to see how you aren't the cause of the problem you are complaining about. The problem isn't that there's no value in a college degree, the problem is that you are stupid and you think everyone else should be as stupid as you...that way we don't question the stupid things you say. it's obvious why you want to discourage people from attending college; educated people are less inclined to buy your bullshit.

 

[Winston]

Again, I think it depends. A lot of jobs aren't being filled, and a lot of people are getting degrees that are kind of useless. I think we should fund more STEM education, less "multi-cultural studies" horseshit.

STEM degrees are useless, actually.

Wow, what a freaking stupid ass statement. I just spent the weekend celebrating my son's graduation. He had three roommates, all with STEM degrees. They all have had multiple job offers and all have accepted positions. The lowest paid of the four is making 25 dollars an hour.

And my son, well he is exactly the type of STEM graduate you are talking about. He is working doing research that has nothing to do with global warming. It is all about STEAM, and boilers, and materials science. Matter of fact, he is working for the largest electrical power research institute in the WORLD and I don't even believe they have a division working on global warming.

 

[Winston]

Again, personal attacks aside, this has /nothing/ to do with kids blindly rushing out for a $30k bill on a degree that they aren't going to use.

No one is "blindly rushing out" to get a college degree. If you want to make a decent living in this country, you have to have a degree. Furthermore, you keep saying people have a degree they aren't going to use. What the fuck does that even mean? Of course, it means nothing...it's just something that sounds clever to you in that empty little head of yours. Fact is, students take away more from college than just a piece of paper. They take away critical thinking skills, they take away exposure to new ideas they have been shielded from, they take away much more than just a piece of paper. I don't think you went to college yourself. It's funny to me that you pretend you did so you can be self-righteous in your assessment of education, ignoring the fact that students are burdened with debt because of your stupid trickle-down policies that reduced revenues, forcing states to increase tuition on students. 15 years ago, it was possible to go to a state school for next to nothing (if you were a resident). Nowadays, it costs students $30K to go to a state school that their parents most likely went to for 1/100th the cost. This isn't because of anything other than tax cuts...the governing ideology of the anti-intellectual morons that make up the entire Conservative movement today.

No tax cuts = no student debt

So again, it's hard to see how you aren't the cause of the problem you are complaining about. The problem isn't that there's no value in a college degree, the problem is that you are stupid and you think everyone else should be as stupid as you...that way we don't question the stupid things you say. it's obvious why you want to discourage people from attending college; educated people are less inclined to buy your bullshit.

Just putting your numbers in perspective. I went to a state school in the 80's. Yearly cost, between six and seven thousand dollars. Today, about three times that amount, yearly cost between twenty one and twenty three thousand.

 

[The Derp]

Yes employers check credit scores, because people who are in financial difficulties are often put there by bad habits.

No they're not. Again, you are making judgements of people because you lack critical thinking skills. So prior to Obamacare, 60% of all personal bankruptcies were because of health care costs. So tell me something, what "bad habit" causes breast cancer or other genetic diseases? Seriously, the nerve of someone so fucking dumb they feel they can judge others for personal circumstances of which you have no fucking idea. Why do you do that? Simple. You lack critical thinking skills, thus making the case for me that college is necessary.

B) if your debt is caused by medical emergency, divorce, or student loans most companies won't hold it against you

BULLSHIT. This is you talking out of your ass. I am finding most of what you say is coming from your ass. This is because you lack the critical thinking skills one would learn in college. So thanks for proving my point that college degrees are necessary because of people like you, who only spread bullshit. And this has everything to do with college. More of that critical thinking that I was referring to earlier that you lack. It's because there are so many stupid people that dumb ideas like no college proliferate. I don't know a single, serious person who thinks that you can get farther in life without a college degree than with one. It's magical thinking that comes from a lack of critical thinking.

 

[The Derp]

Wow, what a freaking stupid ass statement. I just spent the weekend celebrating my son's graduation. He had three roommates, all with STEM degrees. They all have had multiple job offers and all have accepted positions. The lowest paid of the four is making 25 dollars an hour.

BULLSHIT. Don't believe you. Wondering why you feel the need to submit unverifiable personal anecdotes in place of actual facts. Well, wait, I know why you do that...to lend a weak argument credibility iot doesn't otherwise have.

Wondering why you all laud STEM degrees, yet when those with STEM degrees tell you climate change is happening, or that cutting taxes doesn't result in growth, or that the earth is billions of years old and God didn't create it in 7 days, or that homosexuality isn't a choice, that a fetus is just a fetus and not a person, and nthat you cannot balance a budget by cutting taxes, suddenly those people are not to be listened to?

Can you explain that, please? You're the ones telling everyone STEM degrees are useless because you refuse to listen to people with STEM degrees when they tell you facts.

 

[The Derp]

If you are not going to COMMIT yourself to a career, then don't blow money on a degree you don't need.

So, I decided to actually look into your claim about finding a job and not using a 4 year degree. Using critical thinking, I decided to go over to the BLS and check the unemployment rates for people with only a HS degree, a 2 year degree, and a 4 year degree. Guess what I found? Go ahead...guess...I'll give you a few moments to formulate a guess. OK, did you make a guess?

The unemployment rate, according to the BLS, for people with a 4-year college degree (or more) is...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...2.4%!

The unemployment rate, according to the BLS, for people with a 2-year college degree is...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...3.7%!

The unemployment rate, according to the BLS, for people with only a HS diploma is...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...4.6%!

So this narrative of yours, that folks graduating with a 4-year degree are having a difficult time finding work is not supported by the data or facts.

So how did you reach such a stupid narrative in the first place? Simple; you lack critical thinking skills, so you most likely took the word of an authoritarian (again, because you're weak-willed, lack the ability to think critically, and don't question authority) and represented that as the standard, when a quick, cursory glance at the facts undermines the argument you are making.

So people do find jobs when they graduate college...that's not the issue. The issue is the debt load they get after graduating college. A debt load that only exists because of Conservative fiscal policy.

 

[The Derp]

1) That doesn't factor in how long said person has worked in the field.
2) That says nothing about people moving to where the skills their degree provided are needed.
3) Getting a college degree does not /guarantee/ you will make more money - your willingness to commit yourself to making more money is the actual determinate.
4) Personal attacks aside.

So here are the excuses and goalpost moving. Look, you made a generalized claim that you don't need a 4-year degree to get a good paying job. I proved you do, by using facts. When confronted with those facts, all you do is make excuses.

Wages are higher, the more education you get. Unemployment is lower, the more educated you get. These are facts. Why you choose to ignore them speaks to your inability to think critically. How could you go and make ridiculous claims like this, knowing we can very easily research facts that undermine your case? Did you think because you're a lazy turd, everyone else is a lazy turd too? Did you not expect someone to come along and apply critical thinking to your argument? Because when I do, your argument seems to fall apart on its face. There clearly is intrinsic value in a 4-year college degree; having one means you will likely get paid more, have an easier time finding a job, and succeed in that job.

I know why you don't want people to go to college; the more who do, the less idiots there are out there who will buy into your bullshit.

What the hell are you babbling about? You think innovation only comes from people who have a college degree? You're very mistaken son.

Nowadays, yes. People without college degrees are less likely to find a job, get a decent wage, and more inclined to buy into fantasy and magical thinking.

 

[The Derp]

Just putting your numbers in perspective. I went to a state school in the 80's. Yearly cost, between six and seven thousand dollars. Today, about three times that amount, yearly cost between twenty one and twenty three thousand.

And why is that? Because the state cut education funding in order to plug the deficits that appeared thanks to the tax cuts.

 

[The Derp]

ain, personal attacks aside, this has nothing to do with kids wasting their money on degrees they'll never use.

Unemployment rate for folks with 4-year degree: 2.4%
Unemployment rate for folks with 2-year degree: 3.7%
Unemployment rate for folks with only HS diploma: 4.6%

Median weekly earnings for folks with a 4-year degree: $1,156
Median weekly earnings for folks with a 2-year degree: $819
Median weekly earnings for folks with only HS diploma: $692

So folks who get a college degree make nearly double those who do not. They also have an easier time finding a job. If you want to struggle, then don't get a college degree.

I'm not taking responsibility for people's unwillingness to chase down a good job. If you're not willing to go get a good job, or put in the time to be promoted into a better paying position at a job, then frankly I don't feel sorry for your broke ass.

If you have a college degree, you are far more likely to be employed than if you don't have a degree. You are also far more likely to make a higher wage than if you don't have a 4-year degree. Facts.

ell if you could see past your partisan nose and engage your brain then you would realize that /if/ one got the degree and went after the job that used the degree; then they didn't waste their money on a degree they didn't need...

People with a 4 year degree make nearly twice as much as people with only a HS diploma. FACTS.

The prices of college went up because the GOVERNMENT stepped in to start paying the bill - same reason health care prices went up.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. When you lack critical thinking skills, you end up saying stupid shit like what you wrote above. Government has been backing student loans for decades. Going back to the GI Bill. Yet, the spike in tuition costs have only happened the last 15 years, as states cut taxes, which cut revenues, which resulted in deficits, which led to spending cuts, which led to higher tuition costs, which led to more borrowing.

Take some fucking responsibility for your fiscal belief system. For it is the only reason why education costs have soared. And government health care is cheaper, more effective, and more popular than private health insurance. All three forms of government-provided insurance score higher in patient satisfaction surveys than all forms of private health insurance. Health care costs are high for one reason and one reason only; for-profit health insurance. 20% of every dollar you pay in premiums goes right into the pocket of the insurer. And for what do we pay a 20% fee? Administration.

If you want cheaper health care, the solution is simple; single payer. That's why all single payer nations spend at least half as much as we do on health care as a % of GDP. We spend nearly 20% of our GDP on health care. The next closes First World country is less than 10% of GDP. And all those First World nations routinely beat us in nearly every health metric there is including cost, accessibility, life expectancy and other outcomes.

So why do you want to pay a 20% premium for someone in Hartford to press a button? How does that improve how your health care is performed or delivered?

 

[The Derp]

Same reason that Government work often costs more than if anyone else had the same work done.

Government contracts out work to the private sector. So all you're doing is saying the private sector doesn't do an efficient job. BTW - I live in Atlanta, and the government got the I-85 bridge up nearly a month ahead of schedule.

t's why the right wing says not to get government involved in funding shit, because the businesses raise their prices to take advantage - it removes the natural trend of the market to /lower/ prices and capture more of the market from competitors, instead pushing a trend of increasing prices because the government is pumping demand, and money, into the system.

Bullshit. Complete 100% bullshit. Government isn't the reason health care costs are so high (Medicare has a higher cost-benefit ratio than all forms of private health insurance), for-profit insurance and drug companies are. In fact, it's the right wing who banned Medicare from using its leverage as the largest payer to negotiate for lower drug costs. Why? For one reason only; to protect drug company profits. The same drug companies who were #5 in contributors to Bush's 2004 campaign (Medicare Part-D was passed in 2003, FYI).

So it's not government that causes prices to rise...it's Conservatives who don't want you to get a good deal because they are looking out for the businesses and not the patients/consumers.

I'm not taking responsibility for people's unwillingness to chase down a good job. If you're not willing to go get a good job, or put in the time to be promoted into a better paying position at a job, then frankly I don't feel sorry for your broke ass.

If you have a college degree, you are far more likely to be employed than if you don't have a degree. You are also far more likely to make a higher wage than if you don't have a 4-year degree. Facts.

ell if you could see past your partisan nose and engage your brain then you would realize that /if/ one got the degree and went after the job that used the degree; then they didn't waste their money on a degree they didn't need...

People with a 4 year degree make nearly twice as much as people with only a HS diploma. FACTS.

The prices of college went up because the GOVERNMENT stepped in to start paying the bill - same reason health care prices went up.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. When you lack critical thinking skills, you end up saying stupid shit like what you wrote above. Government has been backing student loans for decades. Going back to the GI Bill. Yet, the spike in tuition costs have only happened the last 15 years, as states cut taxes, which cut revenues, which resulted in deficits, which led to spending cuts, which led to higher tuition costs, which led to more borrowing.

Take some fucking responsibility for your fiscal belief system. For it is the only reason why education costs have soared. And government health care is cheaper, more effective, and more popular than private health insurance. All three forms of government-provided insurance score higher in patient satisfaction surveys than all forms of private health insurance. Health care costs are high for one reason and one reason only; for-profit health insurance. 20% of every dollar you pay in premiums goes right into the pocket of the insurer. And for what do we pay a 20% fee? Administration.

If you want cheaper health care, the solution is simple; single payer. That's why all single payer nations spend at least half as much as we do on health care as a % of GDP. We spend nearly 20% of our GDP on health care. The next closes First World country is less than 10% of GDP. And all those First World nations routinely beat us in nearly every health metric there is including cost, accessibility, life expectancy and other outcomes.

So why do you want to pay a 20% premium for someone in Hartford to press a button? How does that improve how your health care is performed or delivered?

TSame reason that Government work often costs more than if anyone else had the same work done.

I live in Atlanta, and the government got the I-85 bridge up nearly a month ahead of schedule.

t's why the right wing says not to get government involved in funding shit, because the businesses raise their prices to take advantage - it removes the natural trend of the market to /lower/ prices and capture more of the market from competitors, instead pushing a trend of increasing prices because the government is pumping demand, and money, into the system.

Bullshit. Complete 100% bullshit. Government isn't the reason health care costs are so high (Medicare has a higher cost-benefit ratio than all forms of private health insurance), for-profit insurance and drug companies are. In fact, it's the right wing who banned Medicare from using its leverage as the largest payer to negotiate for lower drug costs. Why? For one reason only; to protect drug company profits. The same drug companies who were #5 in contributors to Bush's 2004 campaign (Medicare Part-D was passed in 2003, FYI).

So it's not government that causes prices to rise...it's Conservatives who don't want you to get a good deal because they are looking out for the businesses and not the patients/consumers.

 

[Winston]

Wow, what a freaking stupid ass statement. I just spent the weekend celebrating my son's graduation. He had three roommates, all with STEM degrees. They all have had multiple job offers and all have accepted positions. The lowest paid of the four is making 25 dollars an hour.

BULLSHIT. Don't believe you. Wondering why you feel the need to submit unverifiable personal anecdotes in place of actual facts. Well, wait, I know why you do that...to lend a weak argument credibility iot doesn't otherwise have.

Wondering why you all laud STEM degrees, yet when those with STEM degrees tell you climate change is happening, or that cutting taxes doesn't result in growth, or that the earth is billions of years old and God didn't create it in 7 days, or that homosexuality isn't a choice, that a fetus is just a fetus and not a person, and nthat you cannot balance a budget by cutting taxes, suddenly those people are not to be listened to?



Can you explain that, please? You're the ones telling everyone STEM degrees are useless because you refuse to listen to people with STEM degrees when they tell you facts.

I don't give a shit if you believe me or not. Yes, climate change is happening. That is common knowledge, it is no longer an argument. And not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, most people with a little common sense have figured it out as well.

Damn skippy, cutting taxes in this environment DOES NOT result in economic growth. The Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, even those with a lowly economic degree know that the Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Hell, I doubt you even know what that curve implies.

And yeah, God didn't make the world in six days. Yes, the earth is billions of years old. And no, homosexuality is NOT a choice. But that doesn't have a damn thing to do with STEM degrees.

STEM GRADUATES EXPECTED TO BE TOP PAID IN CLASS OF 2017

STEM Graduates Expected to Be Top Paid in Class of 2017

 

[The Derp]

Gee whiz, just keep raising taxes and pretty soon our problems will be solved. Taxes keep getting raised in california and people and businesses keep leaving. What dummies they are, right?

NO! People and businesses are not leaving California. That is a fucking lie perpetrated by people who cannot create jobs on their own, all they can do is try to poach them from other states.

Since 2012, CA has lead the nation in job growth, total jobs created, and business growth:

So either the US Census Bureau is wrong, or you are.

Which is it?

 

[The Derp]

I don't give a shit if you believe me or not.

Ah, but Winston...the problem is that you made yourself central to your premise. So it matters a great deal that I believe you because you're using your unverifiable personal anecdotes as the centerpiece of your argument. So, if the centerpiece of your argument is bullshit, that makes your entire argument bullshit.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you I was Tom Brady, so why should I believe you when you say things about yourself? I don't think that's an unfair question given the facts that Conservatives lie constantly on the internet.

Yes, climate change is happening. That is common knowledge, it is no longer an argument. And not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, most people with a little common sense have figured it out as well.

Maybe you should tell that to Conservatives. I have yet to meet a single one who accepts Climate Change.

Damn skippy, cutting taxes in this environment DOES NOT result in economic growth. The Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, even those with a lowly economic degree know that the Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Hell, I doubt you even know what that curve implies.

Cutting taxes never results in economic growth. And the Laffer Curve isn't a curve so much as it's a freaking joke. I know very well that it's a joke, having seen Art Laffer's tax-cutting, low-regulation, supply-side nonsense fall flat on its face in Kansas. The problem is that Conservatives lack critical thinking skills (because many of them aren't educated) and still continue holding fast to dead ideas like the Laffer Curve or creationism. So it's weird when you have Conservatives refusing to accept the truths of what they believe, while urging folks to get degrees they ultimately will ignore when it is inconvenient for them.

And yeah, God didn't make the world in six days. Yes, the earth is billions of years old. And no, homosexuality is NOT a choice. But that doesn't have a damn thing to do with STEM degrees.

When you have 97% of scientists saying something is real and happening, yet you ignore them, you are undermining the argument that STEM degrees matter.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I put away each month for my 4 kids with current projections I should be at half and they will have to take loans for the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The Race Must Go to the Fastest, Not the "Fatherest"

Daddy buying them a job. To realize how dishonest and dysfunctional that is, say the same thing about "saving up money to get my son on the college football team."

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own fucking advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the fucking nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of fucking cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too fucking chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you fucking support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of fucking assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you bitch about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you fucking assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should fucking forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the fuck are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

First of all, who says they won't use the degree????? Second of all, the reason they are in debt is because in order to get that degree, they had to borrow. And they had to borrow because tuition went up. And tuition went up because the state cut education funding. And the state cut education funding because there's a budget deficit. And there's a budget deficit because revenues were cut. And revenues were cut because taxes were cut. And taxes were cut because Conservatives adhere to the stupidest economic policy ever dreamed up. And they adhere to that because they are dumb. And they're dumb because they don't have an education. And they don't have an education because they believe morons like you who say they don't need one. And you say they don't need one because you don't value higher education because it doesn't teach students that Jesus rode a triceratops, the Earth is 6,000 years old, and trickle down economics is legitimate.

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own fucking advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the fucking nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of fucking cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too fucking chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you fucking support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of fucking assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you bitch about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you fucking assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should fucking forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the fuck are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

Yaybe your stupid ass should realize that you're not going to move out of the "service" field and realize that the 73% of the job market /you/ are looking at getting into doesn't require more than a diploma from HS and save yourself the money.

And if you don't think that's a problem, then you need to reexamine your belief system. HS grads without a college degree earn less than half of those who have one. And BTW - the average wage for someone without a college degree ($23,000) qualifies them for many welfare benefits like SNAP (depending on household size) and Medicaid. So we are basically subsidizing, with welfare, your advocacy that people don't go to college. So you end up costing taxpayers because you don't want people to be educated. Educated people aren't likely to buy into the bullshit you are selling. That's really what your anti-college position is about. Don't lie. We're not as stupid as you. You're just that transparent.

Gee whiz, just keep raising taxes and pretty soon our problems will be solved. Taxes keep getting raised in california and people and businesses keep leaving. What dummies they are, right?

Remember 1845! Make California American Again!

No, they're cowards and deserters, letting California get taken over by the feralphile multiculties without a fight. Conservatives will never wash out the stain of being Chickenhawks during the war against the Communists; your sissy suggestion proves that. No patriot should follow your leaders.

 

[Winston]

I don't give a shit if you believe me or not.

Ah, but Winston...the problem is that you made yourself central to your premise. So it matters a great deal that I believe you because you're using your unverifiable personal anecdotes as the centerpiece of your argument. So, if the centerpiece of your argument is bullshit, that makes your entire argument bullshit.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you I was Tom Brady, so why should I believe you when you say things about yourself? I don't think that's an unfair question given the facts that Conservatives lie constantly on the internet.

Yes, climate change is happening. That is common knowledge, it is no longer an argument. And not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, most people with a little common sense have figured it out as well.

Maybe you should tell that to Conservatives. I have yet to meet a single one who accepts Climate Change.

Damn skippy, cutting taxes in this environment DOES NOT result in economic growth. The Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Not only do those with STEM degrees intuitively know this, even those with a lowly economic degree know that the Laffer curve is a FREAKING CURVE. Hell, I doubt you even know what that curve implies.

Cutting taxes never results in economic growth. And the Laffer Curve isn't a curve so much as it's a freaking joke. I know very well that it's a joke, having seen Art Laffer's tax-cutting, low-regulation, supply-side nonsense fall flat on its face in Kansas. The problem is that Conservatives lack critical thinking skills (because many of them aren't educated) and still continue holding fast to dead ideas like the Laffer Curve or creationism. So it's weird when you have Conservatives refusing to accept the truths of what they believe, while urging folks to get degrees they ultimately will ignore when it is inconvenient for them.

And yeah, God didn't make the world in six days. Yes, the earth is billions of years old. And no, homosexuality is NOT a choice. But that doesn't have a damn thing to do with STEM degrees.

When you have 97% of scientists saying something is real and happening, yet you ignore them, you are undermining the argument that STEM degrees matter.

Damn, but if you are so clueless as to believe I am a conservative simply because I KNOW THE VALUE of a STEM degree, we really are not going to get anywhere. If you proof of that value then check out the University of North Carolina at Charlotte graduation program for 2017. Sure, my son paid about twenty two grand a year to get his education. But that was in-state tuition. The University awarded 71 masters degrees in computer engineering. Of that 71 maybe one or two came from North Carolina. Seven came from the United States. The other 64 were from India, China, Saudi Arabia, and yes Iran. Those individuals paid about fifty grand a year. I doubt they consider that a poor investment.

And yes, cutting taxes can result in increased revenue a la John Kennedy. But tax rates were much higher then than now, hence THE CURVE. At today's historically low rates of taxation tax cuts could not possibly generate additional revenue.

 

[The Derp]

Damn, but if you are so clueless as to believe I am a conservative simply because I KNOW THE VALUE of a STEM degree, we really are not going to get anywhere. If you proof of that value then check out the University of North Carolina at Charlotte graduation program for 2017. Sure, my son paid about twenty two grand a year to get his education. But that was in-state tuition. The University awarded 71 masters degrees in computer engineering. Of that 71 maybe one or two came from North Carolina. Seven came from the United States. The other 64 were from India, China, Saudi Arabia, and yes Iran. Those individuals paid about fifty grand a year. I doubt they consider that a poor investment.

I'm not the one arguing against college...I am arguing that placing all this value on STEM degrees matters little when those with STEM degrees are not listened to when it comes to policy; be it taxes, climate, biology, economics. Generally speaking, those with a 4-year college degree (regardless of the field) earn double what those without a college degree earn. People with a 4-year degree (again, regardless of field) have an unemployment rate half that of those without a college degree. It doesn't matter what the field is you have a degree in because generally speaking, you're going to find a job that pays well. Again, unemployment is 2.4% for people with a 4-year degree, and they make, on average $1,200/week which is about double what those without a college degree make.

Shaming people for getting a Bachelor's in something that isn't STEM is pointless. Mostly because those with STEM degrees are largely ignored by policymakers, but also because people with any degree from a four year school do better than those who don't attend college. That is a fact.

And yes, cutting taxes can result in increased revenue a la John Kennedy. But tax rates were much higher then than now, hence THE CURVE. At today's historically low rates of taxation tax cuts could not possibly generate additional revenue.

So Mr. Laffer's curve is really just pointless. II also love how you point to Kennedy as somehow proof of tax cut theory...never mind the fact that Kennedy cut top rates to 70%. So if you want to return to top tax rate of 70%, I'm all for it. Secondly, what you also failed to mention, or realize, was that it wasn't Kennedy's tax cuts that resulted in increased revenue, IT WAS CONGRESS INCREASING SPENDING BY 22% from 1961-1964, and then increasing spending by 51% from 1964-1968. Proving, again, that government spending increases revenues, not tax cuts.

A more accurate view of tax cuts would be the reduction in revenue we saw for four consecutive years during Bush. Federal revenue for 2001-2004 was below federal revenue for 2000. That is because of the tax cuts. Revenue only surpassed 2000 levels by 2005, but that was due entirely, 100% to the housing bubble Bush and the Conservatives were inflating at the time. If tax cuts are so good for economic growth, how come household debt spikes every time taxes are cut? If "letting people keep more of what they earn" is a good thing, how do you account for the spiking of household debt that occurs immediately after every single tax cut the last 40 years??

We can also take a peek at Kansas and see there that their pre-Brownback surplus and rainy day fund have been replaced by massive deficits that have spiked Kansas' debt, downgraded its credit twice, saw its economic growth lag the national average, saw employment and business creation growth below all its neighbors, and of course it was the only state in the country to see its uninsured rate rise post-ACA.