Pay Your Debts Snowflakes- Student Loans Just Got A Lot More Expensive

[JoeB131]

What I'm saying is because of the ag laws, factory farms end up crowing out locally-sourced foods. And now, we find that we will be importing chicken from China. I think you and I both agree the agriculture laws are a mess. I think the solution is more community and urban farming.

Um....no. Factory farms crowd out local farms because they are more efficient.

It's why food spending has actually decreased as a percentage of household spending.

Furthermore, I don't know from where you got this idea that Starbucks workers are post-college kids who can't get a job.

By being in Starbucks every day... pretty much. It's where I meet my clients for the aforementioned resume business.

Moving right along.

It's not your determination what is a useful field or not.

It is when you are asking the rest of us to pay for it with scholarships and subsidized student loans.... which is the point of this thread.

NOPE. College is expensive because states cut funding to education to pay for useless tax cuts, and the deficits that come from those tax cuts have to be closed because many states have STUPID Balanced Budget Amendments.

No, Balanced Budget Amendments are smart. I wish we had one at the Federal level.

Look, if we are going to get serious about controlling deficits, then we have to make some choices we aren't going to like. Yes, it would be nice to pay for all these nice things, but sometimes you have to buy the Focus because you can't afford the Mercedes.

 

[The Derp]

By being in Starbucks every day... pretty much. It's where I meet my clients for the aforementioned resume business. Moving right along.

No, no. You don't get to skip away that easily. So you're submitting an unverifiable anecdote into the debate in place of an actual fact. I guess that is the clue that you don't really know what you're talking about. I find Conservatives constantly fall back on these unverifiable anecdotes the minute they run out of canned talking points to use. You should be able to make an argument without relying on something that is unverifiable. Can you do that? No. So what does that mean? That you're full of it.

It is when you are asking the rest of us to pay for it with scholarships and subsidized student loans.... which is the point of this thread.

A loan is paid back, a scholarship is offered by the school, not the government. Did you even go to college? Doesn't sound like it to me. Student loans are not subsidized, they are guaranteed. There's a difference. A subsidized student loan is a misnomer. Student loans are paid back. Are you referring to Pell Grants? Is that what your broken English is trying to say? You managed to get not one, but two major parts of your response wrong. Taxpayers don't pay for scholarships. Taxpayers don't subsidize student loans. If they did subsidize student loans, they wouldn't be student loans, they'd be grants. What a moron.

No, Balanced Budget Amendments are smart. I wish we had one at the Federal level.

BBA's are stupid and Kansas is the proof. Kansas has a BBA. Kansas cut taxes in 2012. Revenue projections made were not met (not surprisingly because tax cuts don't produce revenue or growth), so the state was forced to raise excise and sales taxes, as well as cut education spending. That resulted in tuition costs rising for students (which forces those students to take out more loans), and public elementary and high schools closing early during the school year. Also, BBA's don't allow for things like emergency spending. So if there is a natural disaster, like an F5 tornado that levels a community, that community would not get any federal emergency funding because doing so would create a deficit. Also, the federal government doesn't collect revenues all at once.

It's no coincidence that states with BBA's often find themselves having to raid the welfare block grant (which is what Arizona and Wisconsin did), or cut education and health care spending (which is what Louisiana and Kansas did) in order to balance the budget that was thrown out of whack by tax cuts that never deliver on any of the promises made of them. Never.

Look, if we are going to get serious about controlling deficits, then we have to make some choices we aren't going to like.

So where was all this deficit concern back in 2001 when you clowns cut taxes and erased a record surplus while producing 4 -FOUR- record deficits over the next 8 years that doubled the debt, when if you clowns had done literally nothing, we could have paid off the debt in 9 years?

You suck so hard you can't even do nothing right.

 

[JoeB131]

No, no. You don't get to skip away that easily.

Actually, I kind of do... Next dumb argument.

A loan is paid back, a scholarship is offered by the school, not the government. Did you even go to college? Doesn't sound like it to me.

Actually, I did on a GI Bill, the ONLY thing the government should be spending money on.

But the fact is, Students skip out on their student loans all the time. The banks make a shitload of money, the colleges make a shitload of money and the rest of us are on the hook for that Women's Studies Degree that makes that girl pretty much unemployable.

BBA's are stupid and Kansas is the proof. Kansas has a BBA. Kansas cut taxes in 2012. Revenue projections made were not met (not surprisingly because tax cuts don't produce revenue or growth), so the state was forced to raise excise and sales taxes, as well as cut education spending.

Which means they learned to live within their means, just like the rest of us have to. Not seeing a problem here, buddy.

It's no coincidence that states with BBA's often find themselves having to raid the welfare block grant (which is what Arizona and Wisconsin did), or cut education and health care spending (which is what Louisiana and Kansas did) in order to balance the budget that was thrown out of whack by tax cuts that never deliver on any of the promises made of them. Never.

Again, you suffer from the Socialist Disease in its worst form, the belief that the world owes you a living.

So where was all this deficit concern back in 2001 when you clowns cut taxes and erased a record surplus while producing 4 -FOUR- record deficits over the next 8 years that doubled the debt, when if you clowns had done literally nothing, we could have paid off the debt in 9 years?

Okay, except the Clinton Surplus (and I agree that Bill was doing int the right way) wasn't really a Surplus. It was just that the Social Security Trust fund was taking in more than the government was borrowing from it to pay for guns and missiles and infrastructure.

Here's the thing about it. I think taxes SHOULD go up. I also think spending needs to be slashed. We need to look at the things we don't need to do and not have the government do them.

We don't need more Majors in Women's Studies. The job market doesn't need them and family gatherings don't need shrill feminists screaching about Patriarchy at Thanksgiving.

 

[The Derp]

Actually, I kind of do... Next dumb argument.

No you don't. We have to discuss the pathology inherent in Conservative posters whereby they submit unverifiable personal anecdotes in place of actual facts for a debate. You understand why that is a problem, right? When the facts don't support your argument, you just happen to have all these personal experiences that do? You understand why I find that hard to believe, yes? Particularly since you make these wild claims about yourself on an anonymous message board, knowing full well that your claim cannot be verified. It's obvious why you do that; you need to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have on the facts. If you cannot make an argument without invoking something unverifiable and personal, then you simply cannot make an argument.

Actually, I did on a GI Bill, the ONLY thing the government should be spending money on.

I thought you opposed education spending. Well, that's a flip-flop. Do you also support spending money on SNAP? Because there are 1.7 million vets who currently receive SNAP benefits. And I actually do think that this country should institute some kind of civil service program for high school grads, not that dissimilar to what they do in Israel by mandating civil service for all citizens. I think that if you put in two years of civil service, you get a free ride to your state school. I think a lot of Conservatives would support a program like that.

But the fact is, Students skip out on their student loans all the time. The banks make a shitload of money, the colleges make a shitload of money and the rest of us are on the hook for that Women's Studies Degree that makes that girl pretty much unemployable.

First of all, the unemployment rate for college graduates with a 4-year degree by age 25 is merely 2.7%, which is full employment. So what that means is that anyone with any four-year degree is highly likely to find a job that pays above the average by the time they're 25 years old. The "Women's Studies Major who works at Starbucks (Barista BA's) is a myth just like the "welfare queen". It is undeniable that a college degree puts you at an advantage when it comes to finding work than if you don't have a degree, period. It's not your place to judge someone based on their degree. Particularly when many undergrads use those degrees as stepping stones to advanced degrees in Law School or teaching certification. See the chart below:

Which means they learned to live within their means, just like the rest of us have to. Not seeing a problem here, buddy.

Live within the means? But the means were artificially handicapped by revenue cuts. It would be like going to your boss and telling him you want a lower salary because your bills are too high. Makes no sense at all. The only reason the state couldn't "live within the means" is because Conservatives cut taxes, and have nothing to show for it. Brownback promised the tax cuts would be "a shot of adrenaline" into the KS economy. It's been 5 years, when is the adrenaline supposed to kick in? I'm no doctor, but even I know adrenaline works right away. We all remember that scene from Pulp Fiction...

Again, you suffer from the Socialist Disease in its worst form, the belief that the world owes you a living.

Stop being so melodramatic you big ol' drama queen...

Okay, except the Clinton Surplus (and I agree that Bill was doing int the right way) wasn't really a Surplus. It was just that the Social Security Trust fund was taking in more than the government was borrowing from it to pay for guns and missiles and infrastructure.

Yes, it was a surplus. Even Bush himself said it was a surplus when, during his state of the union address in 2001, said "surpluses mean we're being overtaxed". You also had Alan Greenspan saying paying off the debt (with the surplus) too soon wouldn't be fair to the bondholders.

Here's the thing about it. I think taxes SHOULD go up. I also think spending needs to be slashed. We need to look at the things we don't need to do and not have the government do them.

So what spending, specifically? Because there are three areas that make up about 90% of the total budget: Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, Defense. Even if you cut everything else the federal government does, you're still running a deficit and you created a recession because you removed trillions in government demand from the economy and replaced it with nothing. That's what you guys don't seem to understand. The economy relies on spending by everyone to grow. That includes government demand as well. If you remove the $1T or so of government discretionary spending from the economy, with what are you replacing it? Have you thought that far ahead?

We don't need more Majors in Women's Studies. Th job market doesn't need them and family gatherings don't need shrill feminists screaching about Patriarchy at Thanksgiving.

So this is very childish. That woman with that Women's Studies degree still has a better chance at finding a job than someone with no degree at all.

 

[JoeB131]

No you don't.

Um, yeah, I do.

Next.

I thought you opposed education spending. Well, that's a flip-flop. Do you also support spending money on SNAP? Because there are 1.7 million vets who currently receive SNAP benefits.

Yup, guys who were probably what we lovingly called "Yardbirds" when we were in... look up the term. Without getting into a discussion about the corporate welfare that is SNAP, my point was, I have no problem giving tuition to vets because they've proven their dedication. As opposed to Ms. Womyn's Studies screaming about the "Patriarchy".

First of all, the unemployment rate for college graduates with a 4-year degree by age 25 is merely 2.7%, which is full employment.

Okay, so the unemployment rate for everyone right now is 4.5%. Obviously, you aren't old enough to remember Professional Recessions like 90 or 01.... where people with college degrees had a hard time finding jobs because they were overqualified.

Yes, it was a surplus.

No, it wasn't. It was like using the Pension fund to pay off operating expenses. You do that in the private sector, you go to jail.

So what spending, specifically? Because there are three areas that make up about 90% of the total budget: Medicare/Medicaid, Social Security, Defense.

Okay, well, here's what you can do.
1) Cut waste and fraud in the military.
2) Means test social security. No good reason to send checks to billionaires and millionaires.
3) Allow Medicare Part D to buy in bulk instead of paying retail rates. (A set-aside they got when Part D as passed.

Those are simple fixes.

That's what you guys don't seem to understand. The economy relies on spending by everyone to grow. That includes government demand as well. If you remove the $1T or so of government discretionary spending from the economy, with what are you replacing it? Have you thought that far ahead?

Guy, here's the problem with that kind of Keynesian thinking. Even Keynes stated that in good times, you cut back on government spending because it isn't needed. We don't do that.

It's not a good thing that Government soaks up 40% of the economy. We got government that produced a lot more by soaking up a lot less, because it wasn't seen as a jobs program.