Pay Your Debts Snowflakes- Student Loans Just Got A Lot More Expensive

[The Derp]

Many of these kids are spending tens of thousands of dollars they don't need to spend for the jobs that are available in their area

Who does this and why? It makes no sense. So you're saying they go to college for 4 years, get a degree in something like architecture or engineering (or even liberal arts), and then return back to the podunk town from which they came? Listen to yourself and how silly that sounds. While it is true that many college graduates move back home with their parents, that's not because they are trying to get a job in their hometown (chances are if you go to college, you're not going back to your hometown nor do you want to), but because of crushing debt from having to borrow in order to get a degree...which brings us full circle; students have to borrow to pay for rising tuition costs because state revenues were reduced by tax cuts, and spending for education was cut.

You are working from the assumption that those who go to college intend to move back from where they came. I'm telling you that is not the case. Students who return home after college aren't doing so to find work, they are doing so because they are burdened with debt and cannot afford to live on their own. That is because Conservatives cut education funding, which raised state tuition, all to give rich people tax cuts they don't need, that are never paid for, and add to the deficit and debt.

here’s a greater supply of college graduates than a demand for college graduates in the labor market.

Completely untrue. There is plenty of demand for college graduates. So much demand that companies are importing those high-skilled workers (like tech firms do) on visas...the same kind of visas that account for the majority of undocumented workers in this country. And it is completely false that most jobs today don't require a college degree. Furthermore, in your race to the bottom, you aren't accounting for things like having to lower the retirement age because all these trade labor jobs you think are some kind of silver bullet to a problem that doesn't exist (we are at full employment right now) mean workers would have to work manual labor jobs well into their 70's, long after their bodies have likely given out. I don't understand why you think someone in their 60's or 70's should be working construction, manual labor, and trade jobs? Do you want people to die on the job? You know this push to make us all serfs will only lead to increased disability claims as many older workers find they cannot walk up 3 flights of stairs carrying heavy building materials at 57 years old. So this rhetoric here is really a sneaky way to advocate for a quasi-serfdom where we don't innovate things, we only service the very wealthy.

According to BLS, the economy will create 50.6 million job openings by 2022 and only 27.1 percent will require college degrees. That’s a projected increase of only 2.1 percentage points since 1996."

Yes, because the economy was transformed into a service-based economy artificially. Think about the kinds of jobs you are talking about; plumbers, construction, landscaping, childcare...what do all those jobs have in common? They are all service jobs. So the BLS only says that many jobs would require a college degree by 2022, should we continue on the path of being a service-based economy whose primary function is to support the wealthy. Which is what Conservatives want us to be...a quasi serfdom with hints of fascism.

 

[The Derp]

College is too expensive. But you can't get a job without a degree these days.

Sure you can...it just doesn't pay a whole lot. So forget trying to make a decent living taking a job that is below the average income.

 

[The Derp]

It seems to me that what we need to do is instead of making a bachelor's degree a glorified HS Diploma, we need to put a concentration on using our colleges to produce the specialists we need, and that should be based on qualifications, not ability to pay or willingness to put yourself into debt for life to get there.

You don't get there by cutting funding for public colleges, do you?

 

[The Derp]

Colleges need tuition money

Yeah, because you cut their funding when you cut taxes, which reduced revenue, which manufactured deficits, which had to be closed because of stupid Balanced Budget Amendments, which means cuts to education spending, which means colleges have to raise tuition, which means students have to borrow more.

All because tax cuts don't ******* pay for themselves.

 

[The Derp]

Tuition and books should be 1/5 or more or more of what they are.They were for me. This is outrageous.

You know why they're not? Two words: tax cuts.

Tax cuts reduce revenue, which results in deficits, which results in spending cuts, which results in tuition increases, which results in more borrowing.

All because tax cuts don't ******* pay for themselves, even though Conservatives say they do.

Why are we listening to Conservatives at all? They bullshitted us by saying tax cuts would generate all this revenue, we wouldn't even need to cut spending. So why not freeze them out? Why are they still allowed to voice their opinions in this? They lied to us. **** them.

 

[The Derp]

How is any education free? The buildings, electricity, heat, property taxes, teachers, books, computers, etc., there is no charge for any of this? All of this is free, given out of the goodness of someone's heart? My mom worked a full time job and two part times jobs to get my brother through med school, this was with scholarships. It took a toll on her, but she did it. No one expected anything for free then, what a different world now, when free means someone (taxpayers} pay for you.

So my big problem with this shit you wrote, is that when it comes to Conservative ideology, the same standards never seem to apply.

The entire economic ideology of Conservatives is wholly dependent on "free stuff", namely the welfare they use from the Welfare Block Grant to plug deficit holes that come from their poor fiscal policies. You want to talk about "free stuff"? How about all the welfare Conservatives use to cover for the failure of their tax cuts to create growth? Conservatives quite literally use welfare to subsidize tax cuts, which would make Conservatives the biggest welfare queens of all.

 

[The Derp]

The greedy government allows it to happen.

The greedy Conservative government allows it to happen. They're the ones who came up with all these crazy visas in the first place, then they use those visas to undermine American workers. Trump is a perfect example; he imports workers on those very visas to work at his resorts. So why does he do that? Because those workers cannot pipe up about low wages, poor working conditions, no benefits because they are essentially indentured servants to the corporations they work for. Trump is one of the worst offenders, importing thousands of foreign workers to work for low wages at his domestic resorts.

And Conservatives don't seem to care at all.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

[QUOTE="The Sage of Main S.

Plutocrats Better Preach What They Practice



Pay students a salary and you will get the few who actually belong in college, not the low-talent brownnoses we get now. All other reforms miss the point. The corporate hustlers better give us the same thing they give to their sons--a high allowance and paid-up tuition--or it is our duty to make sure those spoiled brats never graduate.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Lack of adequate wages is the number one problem facing the middle class. Promoting Republicans continues the wage problem.

We Need the Gilded to Get Gelded

Despite their rehearsed rhetoric, Debutante Democrats are snooty snobs who despise working people. Expel them from your party and make it exclusively populist. Ivy Leaguers and Seven Sisters are obsolete and toxic. The Kennedy dynasty had no more right to set up in America than the Bush dynasty did, so you imposters don't offer the middle class an alternative

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

[QUOTE="HereWeGoAgain, post: 17236246, me

You know that makes zero sense right?

College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up

Getting a job just because you can go four or more years without a job makes no sense. That's all college "education" means. It's called a "Big Lie": something absurd that is only believed because the plutocratic parasites' overwhelming brainwashing tells you it makes sense.

I think they very best way to get a really good job is hands on training like back in the day.

College has become nothing but a scam all created to rake in money from the Gov . to the education system. By creating this system guess who makes big bucks off it all. Why people can't piece this bs together is beyond me.

Just like ppl can't put together the medical industry/ big pharma creating all these meds for people to take which keeps them in the money making scam as well. Keep you sick , keeps them rich.

Lack of adequate wages is the number one problem facing the middle class. Promoting Republicans continues the wage problem.

Than stop importing labor.

Like Jacob Agreeing to Be a Slave for Seven Years in Order to Marry Rachel

Any shortages of skilled graduates are caused by education being limited to those who can spend years working without pay.

 

[EverCurious]

Many of these kids are spending tens of thousands of dollars they don't need to spend for the jobs that are available in their area

Who does this and why? It makes no sense. So you're saying they go to college for 4 years, get a degree in something like architecture or engineering (or even liberal arts), and then return back to the podunk town from which they came? Listen to yourself and how silly that sounds. While it is true that many college graduates move back home with their parents, that's not because they are trying to get a job in their hometown (chances are if you go to college, you're not going back to your hometown nor do you want to), but because of crushing debt from having to borrow in order to get a degree...which brings us full circle; students have to borrow to pay for rising tuition costs because state revenues were reduced by tax cuts, and spending for education was cut.

You are working from the assumption that those who go to college intend to move back from where they came. I'm telling you that is not the case. Students who return home after college aren't doing so to find work, they are doing so because they are burdened with debt and cannot afford to live on their own. That is because Conservatives cut education funding, which raised state tuition, all to give rich people tax cuts they don't need, that are never paid for, and add to the deficit and debt.

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions. The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans. I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention." Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.) Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

here’s a greater supply of college graduates than a demand for college graduates in the labor market.

Completely untrue. There is plenty of demand for college graduates. So much demand that companies are importing those high-skilled workers (like tech firms do) on visas...the same kind of visas that account for the majority of undocumented workers in this country. And it is completely false that most jobs today don't require a college degree. Furthermore, in your race to the bottom, you aren't accounting for things like having to lower the retirement age because all these trade labor jobs you think are some kind of silver bullet to a problem that doesn't exist (we are at full employment right now) mean workers would have to work manual labor jobs well into their 70's, long after their bodies have likely given out. I don't understand why you think someone in their 60's or 70's should be working construction, manual labor, and trade jobs? Do you want people to die on the job? You know this push to make us all serfs will only lead to increased disability claims as many older workers find they cannot walk up 3 flights of stairs carrying heavy building materials at 57 years old. So this rhetoric here is really a sneaky way to advocate for a quasi-serfdom where we don't innovate things, we only service the very wealthy.

According to BLS, the economy will create 50.6 million job openings by 2022 and only 27.1 percent will require college degrees. That’s a projected increase of only 2.1 percentage points since 1996."

Yes, because the economy was transformed into a service-based economy artificially. Think about the kinds of jobs you are talking about; plumbers, construction, landscaping, childcare...what do all those jobs have in common? They are all service jobs. So the BLS only says that many jobs would require a college degree by 2022, should we continue on the path of being a service-based economy whose primary function is to support the wealthy. Which is what Conservatives want us to be...a quasi serfdom with hints of fascism.

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

So basically you ***** about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit. Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree. That is the harsh reality, regardless of your "intentions" and words games son. IF you want to access that quarter of jobs that require said college degree, then you have to be willing to make the commitment to do it - which means leaving all your friends and working your ass up the corporate ladder most of the time. If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%. Maybe your stupid ass should realize that you're not going to move out of the "service" field and realize that the 73% of the job market /you/ are looking at getting into doesn't require more than a diploma from HS and save yourself the money.

But hey, feel free to attempt to pay your student loan and rent with your "intentions"

 

[The Derp]

Despite their rehearsed rhetoric, Debutante Democrats are snooty snobs who despise working people. Expel them from your party and make it exclusively populist. Ivy Leaguers and Seven Sisters are obsolete and toxic. The Kennedy dynasty had no more right to set up in America than the Bush dynasty did, so you imposters don't offer the middle class an alternative

Republicans arguing for people to be less educated, and to deride those who are educated. Now why is that? Simple; stupid people don't question authoritarians. Your trickle-down tax schemes are more believable to those who are not educated, than those who are. Why do you think Conservatives hate public education so much?

 

[The Derp]

Any shortages of skilled graduates are caused by education being limited to those who can spend years working without pay.

Don't know what this means, but we are currently at full employment and have been since Obama's final month. Conservatives think we can innovate our way to a 21st century economy by pushing people to take 20th century careers.

 

[The Derp]

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own ******* advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the ******* nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of ******* cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too ******* chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you ******* support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of ******* assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you ***** about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you ******* assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should ******* forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the **** are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

First of all, who says they won't use the degree????? Second of all, the reason they are in debt is because in order to get that degree, they had to borrow. And they had to borrow because tuition went up. And tuition went up because the state cut education funding. And the state cut education funding because there's a budget deficit. And there's a budget deficit because revenues were cut. And revenues were cut because taxes were cut. And taxes were cut because Conservatives adhere to the stupidest economic policy ever dreamed up. And they adhere to that because they are dumb. And they're dumb because they don't have an education. And they don't have an education because they believe morons like you who say they don't need one. And you say they don't need one because you don't value higher education because it doesn't teach students that Jesus rode a triceratops, the Earth is 6,000 years old, and trickle down economics is legitimate.

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own ******* advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the ******* nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of ******* cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too ******* chicken to say out loud in the real world.

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you ******* support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of ******* assholes you people are.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

So basically you ***** about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you ******* assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should ******* forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the **** are you even opening your mouth?

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

Yaybe your stupid ass should realize that you're not going to move out of the "service" field and realize that the 73% of the job market /you/ are looking at getting into doesn't require more than a diploma from HS and save yourself the money.

And if you don't think that's a problem, then you need to reexamine your belief system. HS grads without a college degree earn less than half of those who have one. And BTW - the average wage for someone without a college degree ($23,000) qualifies them for many welfare benefits like SNAP (depending on household size) and Medicaid. So we are basically subsidizing, with welfare, your advocacy that people don't go to college. So you end up costing taxpayers because you don't want people to be educated. Educated people aren't likely to buy into the bullshit you are selling. That's really what your anti-college position is about. Don't lie. We're not as stupid as you. You're just that transparent.

 

[EverCurious]

The Derp Speaking of screeching like barnyard animals... So, as clearly noted by my sig, I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat. I also have never been a politician, political representative, nor had anything to do with the creation of any policies. You sound unhinged.

I have to take my youngest into town to sign up for his college classes, so I may or may not respond to your silly hysterics. You can ignore /reality/ and claim victory if you want lol

Also, I'm a *****, not an asshole. Thanks.

 

[The Derp]

I have to take my youngest into town to sign up for his college classes, so I may or may not respond to your silly hysterics. You can ignore /reality/ and claim victory if you want lol Also, I'm a *****, not an asshole. Thanks.

Reality is not a matter of perception, which too many Conservatives seek to make it. What I hate most about people like you is that you claim to be "non-partisan", yet somehow everything you say, all the positions you support seem to be entirely on one side of the political spectrum only. So you set yourself up as some kind of arbiter of truth who just so happens to find themselves agreeing with one side of the spectrum and that's it. So in a way, you do that to establish credibility to discredited ideas. After all, if a "moderate centrist" like you embraces the idea that college is unnecessary (never mind the massive pay gap between 4 year grads vs. just a HS degree), the Conservative idea of no higher education somehow seems more credible when you have self-proclaimed "centrists" embracing it. Isn't it also possible you're just pretending to be a centrist on the boards so you can lend credibility to a really, really dumb argument? Because I think that's what is really going on here and have seen little to persuade me otherwise.

Why would anyone discourage people from going to college? Simple; they want people to be dumb because dumb people will not bother to think critically when it comes to dumb ideas like trickle-down supply-side bullshit economic theory, that the planet is 6,000 years old, Jesus rode a triceratops, gay marriage will somehow lead to the end of the world, it's OK to discriminate against someone if your religion commands it, and other stupid shit. College grads don't buy into that garbage, but people without higher educations do. So that's really what the goal is, right? To make everyone so stupid, they will blindly accept poor ideas. Why else would Conservatives be trying to discourage higher education? Because they see education as an assault on their values. Because their values and education do not go hand in hand, obviously.

 

[GHook93]

My son graduates from college tomorrow. His student loan debt is right at the average, a little over thirty grand. He starts his job on Monday and will close on his new house on his 22nd birthday in a couple of weeks.

Nice to see kids doing well these days.
Unlike my neighbors thirty year old son thats never held a job.

I put away each month for my 4 kids with current projections I should be at half and they will have to take loans for the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[JoeB131]

You don't get there by cutting funding for public colleges, do you?

Again, I think it depends. A lot of jobs aren't being filled, and a lot of people are getting degrees that are kind of useless. I think we should fund more STEM education, less "multi-cultural studies" horseshit.

I just imagine an HR department looking at a girl who got her "Women's Studies" degree on her resume and thinks, "Yup, there's a Sexual Harassment Lawsuit looking for a place to happen. Good thing it won't be here."

 

[EverCurious]

You are very skilled at blaming others I'll give you that. Reality doesn't really give a crap about good intentions.

So maybe take some of your own ******* advice, asshole. The reason you get blamed is because your polices create these situations. You screech like barnyard animals that taxes should be cut. You make the promise that if they are, we'd be so awash in growth, there would be too many revenues we wouldn't know with what to do. Of course, that's a load of shit; tax cuts never create growth, all they do is increase debts and deficits, which forces people to spend more out of pocket on basic needs like education and health care. So you manufacture deficits, then have the ******* nerve to say those deficits are caused by spending? Seriously, shut your math-challenged mouth.

How about you assholes take some personal responsibility for the failures of your policies and belief structure? Let's start there. Tax cuts don't create jobs. Tax cuts don't create growth. Tax cuts only create deficits and debt, which reduces spending, which results in higher costs. Of course, you know this and it's your intention to manufacture budget deficits in order to use those deficits as an excuse to cut social spending you are opposed to ideologically, yet lack the courage to repeal through legislation because you're a bunch of ******* cowards. Which is why you hide behind anonymous internet names as you spread bullshit you'd be too ******* chicken to say out loud in the real world.

Personal attacks aside, this has zero to do with the blind rush to get a $30k bill for a degree you're never going to use...

The bottom line is that often times college graduates are unable to find and/or maintain jobs that pay even their living expenses and their student loans.

That's because you shitheads oppose raising wages and insist on high interest rates for student loans. So again, we have another problem that you complain about that is caused entirely by the positions you support. So explain to me how you're not basically doing the internet equivalent of masturbating like a monkey in the corner of its pen at the zoo? You perpetuate a problem that you then comp[lain about, and your solution is to just perpetuate the problem further because...because...you lack personal responsibility and the courage to admit when you're wrong.

Again, personal attacks aside, this has NOTHING to do with kids blindly rushing out to get a $30k bill for a degree they're not going to use.

T I have a mess of liberal youngsters I chat with regularly, they all expected to get out of college and land their dream jobs and live however they wanted - exactly as you're arguing when you say "intention."[/ Then comes the "reality"; not one of them has managed to find that "dream job" because frankly it doesn't exist

So I think you are lying about your own personal, unverifiable anecdotes. The problem is Conservatives like you have constructed a bullshit narrative, with no actual real proof because all you're doing is pretending to know intent when you don't know anything, to cover for the facts that:

A) Wages haven't risen despite you all promising they would if we cut taxes.
B) Your stupid fiscal policies end up burdening students and their families with debt, then you blame them for having debt in the first place, caused by the policies you ******* support, asshole.

So you're basically just masturbating on the message board; whining about problems caused by the very polices you support. Seriously, what a bunch of ******* assholes you people are.

Again, personal attacks aside, this has /nothing/ to do with kids blindly rushing out for a $30k bill on a degree that they aren't going to use.

where they are /willing/ to go. The majority of them haven't moved out of their parents house yet because they couldn't find a job that paid enough - even with their fancy 4 year degree. The ones that did had roommates they constantly bitched about, and further the jobs they had were barely enough to make ends meet - despite their fancy 4 year degree.

They can certainly find the jobs, but nowadays employers consider your personal credit ratings when determining who to hire. If you have a poor credit rating, it is unlikely you will get hired for the job. And why do you have a poor credit rating? Because you have a ton of student loan debt. And why do you have a ton of student loan debt? Because tuition has shot up significantly. And why has tuition shot up significantly? Because state spending on education has been cut. And why has state spending on education been cut? Because states had to close budget deficits. And what caused those budget deficits? TAX CUTS. And who are those pushing for tax cuts? Why the same people who are trying to discourage people from getting a college education. And why do you not want people to be educated? Because it's much easier to sell dumb people on schemes like trickle-down and Conservatism. This is by design, you know. I see right through it.

Ah finally you respond with something that at least has a little to do with the topic.

Yes employers check credit scores, because people who are in financial difficulties are often put there by bad habits. A) don't give them permission to check your credit if you're in a bad state, it might cost you the job it may not. B) if your debt is caused by medical emergency, divorce, or student loans most companies won't hold it against you - as long as you haven't gone into default on it. Most background checks/pre-employment checks outside of financial jobs don't even do credit checks, they're mostly interested in criminal background.

The rest of this is bullshit that has nothing to do with college.

As is noted by the articles I'd posted - based on US Gov records - 70+% of these kids with a college degree are going to be working in jobs that they could have gotten straight out of HS (no degree needed.)

Not quite. For one, that's a consequence of your desire to move our economy to one of service-based jobs because...because...you think we should all be in service of the wealthy (hence the Gilded Age reference in one of your previous posts). So they could have gotten a job without a college degree - OK - how much do those jobs pay? Well, the median income for plumbers, for example, is $43K (Below national average of $53k). So yes, you can get a job without a college degree. But will it pay the bills? Nope. Will you see opportunity for your income to rise? Nope. Is the job you are getting one that is service-based? Yep. Do service-based jobs lead to innovation? Nope, only automation. So you are pushing people to do jobs that will be rendered obsolete in a few years thanks to automation. But because you oppose lowering the retirement age, you force grandpa to lug building materials up and down stairs...if grandpa isn't already on disability, which many of the type of jobs you want people to be pushed towards ends up leading to.

"Gilded Age reference"? I have no clue what you're talking about there, I never said any such words.

Again you are ignoring the reality 73% of jobs in the US do not require a college degree. My point is that if you are not going for those 27% that /do/ require a college degree, then you wasting $30k getting a college degree isn't the best idea. This is not a hard concept to grasp son.

Carpentry, plumbing, mechanics will likely /never/ be automated. So getting a 2 yr trade school degree in those fields is a good way to ensure you have a good paying job, AND you still get that leg up benefit of having a degree when applying for /any/ job. The rest of this is being UNWILLING TO MOVE TO WHERE THE JOBS ARE NEEDED AND THUS THE PAY IS HIGHER - which actually feeds right back into my whole ******* point. People are not willing to move to where the skills are needed (and the pay is higher also.) If you are not going to COMMIT yourself to a career, then don't blow money on a degree you don't need.

Plumbers in Alaska make $72k/y by the way - peeps want the money, it's out there, just gotta be willing to move to where the skills are needed.

Which, for /whatever/ reason you want to give it, these people have incurred a huge pile of debt that gave them nothing of value. The majority of college graduates coming out of the university are upside down from go - just like when you buy a house and house prices drop; you end up owing more on your mortgage than the house is worth. Same thing, these kids owe more on their student loan than their degree is actually worth. You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

So, I don't know how you're determining the "worth" of a college degree, but according to the US DoE, degree holders earn $48,500/year whereas non-degree holders earn $23,900/year. So why do you want people to not get an education and work for less money? Do you hate people or what?

1) That doesn't factor in how long said person has worked in the field.
2) That says nothing about people moving to where the skills their degree provided are needed.
3) Getting a college degree does not /guarantee/ you will make more money - your willingness to commit yourself to making more money is the actual determinate.
4) Personal attacks aside.

Thank you for pointing out my assessment (though you did not include it in your snipping of my quotes.) This is our own Bureau of Labor Statistics talking not me man, you want to deny reality have fun. "shows that only 27 percent of jobs (percentage calculated from table 2) in the U.S. economy currently require a college degree (associate degree or higher)."

Which is the consequence of a service economy. So all you're doing is arguing for American workers to work for less pay, in service of some rich person. So where's innovation come from, then? Magic?

What the hell are you babbling about? You think innovation only comes from people who have a college degree? You're very mistaken son.

So basically you ***** about reality - we're a service economy regardless of who you want to blame in your bullshit.

We are a service economy because that is what you ******* assholes want! A serfdom where everyone works for menial wages in service of rich people. That's the type of economy your policies produce. My point is that we should ******* forget about what you assholes think, and ignore you. After all, none of the things you support end up working out, so why the **** are you even opening your mouth?

Again, personal attacks aside, this has nothing to do with kids wasting their money on degrees they'll never use.

Only 27% of jobs in the US economy require a college degree.

So then, I guess you support raising the minimum wage?

Support for minimum wage has nothing to do with how many jobs in the US economy require a college degree son. You're completely unhinged...

If you hate corporations because they're "quasi serdoms with hints of fascism" then maybe your stupid ass shouldn't buy a college degree that would get into that 27%.

First of all, maybe you need to go to college so you know how to comprehend that which you read. I don't hate corporations because we're turning into a quasi-fascist state, I HATE YOU FOR THAT. Because it's your fault we got to this point because of your embrace of dumb policies like trickle down, supply side bullshit. How bout you start taking responsibility for the positions you defend here? Is that too much to ask?

Again, personal attacks aside, you're unhinged.

I'm not taking responsibility for people's unwillingness to chase down a good job. If you're not willing to go get a good job, or put in the time to be promoted into a better paying position at a job, then frankly I don't feel sorry for your broke ass.

You want to blame politics because your a hack, but in the real world your crying and assigning blame doesn't change the reality of these kids having wasted their money for a degree they're not going to use.

First of all, who says they won't use the degree????? Second of all, the reason they are in debt is because in order to get that degree, they had to borrow. And they had to borrow because tuition went up. And tuition went up because the state cut education funding. And the state cut education funding because there's a budget deficit. And there's a budget deficit because revenues were cut. And revenues were cut because taxes were cut. And taxes were cut because Conservatives adhere to the stupidest economic policy ever dreamed up. And they adhere to that because they are dumb. And they're dumb because they don't have an education. And they don't have an education because they believe morons like you who say they don't need one. And you say they don't need one because you don't value higher education because it doesn't teach students that Jesus rode a triceratops, the Earth is 6,000 years old, and trickle down economics is legitimate.

Well if you could see past your partisan nose and engage your brain then you would realize that /if/ one got the degree and went after the job that used the degree; then they didn't waste their money on a degree they didn't need...

The rest of this is just you making shit up. The prices of college went up because the GOVERNMENT stepped in to start paying the bill - same reason health care prices went up. Same reason that Government work often costs more than if anyone else had the same work done. It's why the right wing says not to get government involved in funding shit, because the businesses raise their prices to take advantage - it removes the natural trend of the market to /lower/ prices and capture more of the market from competitors, instead pushing a trend of increasing prices because the government is pumping demand, and money, into the system.

Decent explanation:

I have to take my youngest into town to sign up for his college classes, so I may or may not respond to your silly hysterics. You can ignore /reality/ and claim victory if you want lol Also, I'm a *****, not an asshole. Thanks.

Reality is not a matter of perception, which too many Conservatives seek to make it. What I hate most about people like you is that you claim to be "non-partisan", yet somehow everything you say, all the positions you support seem to be entirely on one side of the political spectrum only. So you set yourself up as some kind of arbiter of truth who just so happens to find themselves agreeing with one side of the spectrum and that's it. So in a way, you do that to establish credibility to discredited ideas. After all, if a "moderate centrist" like you embraces the idea that college is unnecessary (never mind the massive pay gap between 4 year grads vs. just a HS degree), the Conservative idea of no higher education somehow seems more credible when you have self-proclaimed "centrists" embracing it. Isn't it also possible you're just pretending to be a centrist on the boards so you can lend credibility to a really, really dumb argument? Because I think that's what is really going on here and have seen little to persuade me otherwise.

Why would anyone discourage people from going to college? Simple; they want people to be dumb because dumb people will not bother to think critically when it comes to dumb ideas like trickle-down supply-side bullshit economic theory, that the planet is 6,000 years old, Jesus rode a triceratops, gay marriage will somehow lead to the end of the world, it's OK to discriminate against someone if your religion commands it, and other stupid shit. College grads don't buy into that garbage, but people without higher educations do. So that's really what the goal is, right? To make everyone so stupid, they will blindly accept poor ideas. Why else would Conservatives be trying to discourage higher education? Because they see education as an assault on their values. Because their values and education do not go hand in hand, obviously.

You seem to be really full of partisan hate. I'd suggest you take a break from politics cause you're unhinged son.

That said. You hate me because I'm /not/ partisan son, because I don't let political games color my opinion of how things really are. You want to blame R's for everything under the sun, but D's are just as guilty of the same shit.

What I said, is use your brain and don't blow $30k on a college degree if you're planning to work at starbucks with your friends. Don't get a basket weaving degree and expect that you'll easily find a job in that field. Don't get a 4 year degree when a cheaper 2 year degree will serve the needs you as an individual have.

IF you plan to pursue your career - to include moving away from your friends and family to go where the skills you have trained for are needed, then by all means go $30k in debt to get a degree. However, if you don't really have any intention of seriously pursuing a job as an architect, for example, don't waste $30k for a degree you don't need.

 

[Zoom-boing]

College is overrated.