Panic, Bribes, and Ditched Cars - Fleeing the Russian Draft.

odanny

Diamond Member
May 7, 2017
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Midwest - Trumplandia
Older Russians love Putin, younger Russians hate him. Kinda sounds like this country from 2016-2020.





DARIALI, Georgia — They are bus drivers, programmers, photographers, bankers. They have driven for hours, bribed their way through many police checkpoints — spending a month’s wages in some cases — and then waited at the border, most of them for days, in a traffic jam that stretched for miles.

Many grabbed their passports, abandoned their cars and crossed the frontier on foot, fearing that Russia would slam shut one of the last, precious routes to leave the country. The Kremlin dispatched teams to border crossings to weed out draft-eligible men and hand them conscription notices, and rumors spread on social media that it would seal the border.

Most of those who left had no idea when they would return home, if ever.

President Vladimir V. Putin last week ordered a draft of civilians to reinforce the army that has suffered tens of thousands of casualties in the war he launched against Ukraine. Since then, at least 200,000 Russians, mostly young men, have fled, squeezing through the few crossings still open.

More than a quarter of them cut through the thin gorge separating Russia from Georgia at their only official border crossing — about 10,000 a day.

The photographer Ksenia Ivanova spent two days near that spot collecting the stories of fleeing Russians and taking their portraits. Many offered only their first names, fearing repercussions should they ever return home. They spoke of divided families, the futility of protesting in Russia and the fear of dying in a war they did not support.

His grandmother adores Putin. His mother hates Putin. Vladimir thinks the Russian president is a madman who isn’t bluffing about using nuclear weapons — one reason he waited in line for 13 hours to cross the border.

“Every Russian family has someone who supports the war, and someone who’s against it,” he said. “It’s just some families fell apart because of it, and some have not.”

He went to one antiwar protest, but quickly realized both its danger and its futility, he said. "There’s probably 10 times more police than protesters,” he said. “It’s all pointless.”

Artyom has grim memories of his year of required service in the army.

“Here you are, sitting in a trench, hugging a gun,” he said. “During a night like that you understand a lot, you realize a lot. After serving in the army, I decided for myself that I am a pacifist, and that war is bad. It’s terrible.”

After Mr. Putin’s call-up, a draft notice was issued for Artyom, a programmer, but he had other ideas. He, his wife and another couple drove south from Moscow.

Near the village of Urukh, about two hours from the border, they came to their first police checkpoint. There, an officer asked if Artyom wanted to be drafted.

“He began to threaten me that he would call the military enlistment office and they would come get me,” he said. Instead, he agreed to “negotiate.”
That was the first of many bribes Artyom paid throughout the drive, totaling 100,000 rubles — more than $1,600, far above the average Russian monthly salary of around 62,000 rubles. Some were to Ossetians, an ethnic group in the Caucasus, who helped navigate police stops.

“At one intersection, a policeman saw the Moscow license plates on our car and began to threaten that he would turn us back,” he said. “We offered to negotiate. He pretended that he was not interested in all this, but in fact, he just spins for money.”

When they finally arrived, the line of cars at the border stretched more than five miles, he said. So Artyom and the other man grabbed their jackets, left their wives in the car and ran for the border. The line there was tense.

“Everyone was emotional,” he said. “People were arguing, screaming.”

Still, they got through. Three days later, they were still waiting for their wives to arrive with the car.

 
An estimated 125,000 Americans fled to Canada in the 1960s and '70s to avoid the Vietnam War military draft, according to the American Veterans of Foreign Wars. About half returned to the United States when President Carter granted them amnesty in 1977.

War Resisters Remain in Canada with No Regrets.


J
ust sayin'. ;)
There are already 200,000 that have fled Russia, with more to follow.
 
Please provide :link: to 3rd party objective source to back your claim.
(not U.S. lying media or from Ukraine Ministry of propaganda and spin)
Thank you.....
Interior ministries of Kazakhstan and Georgia? Pretty much every country with a border with Russia reports the same thing. The total is probably closer to 600K than 200K.


 
Funny fantasy story.... :thup: :laugh::laugh:

The problem is, it's true.

Or are all of these sources lying?

Georgia, Kazakhstan and Mongolia are witnessing a massive influx of Russians fleeing their country to avoid being drafted into Moscow’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine following President Vladimir Putin’s mobilization order, which has prompted unprecedented anger and opposition in parts of the country.

For more than two decades, Central Asian labor migrants have traveled to Russia for work. Now, with Russian President Vladimir Putin’s announcement of a compulsory military draft, hundreds of thousands of Russians are heading in the opposite direction.

Since Putin’s announcement of Russia’s first military mobilization since World War II on Sept. 21, hundreds of thousands of Russian men have left the country to avoid being drafted to fight in Ukraine. The former Soviet republics of Central Asia quickly emerged as a primary destination for Russian draft dodgers looking for the nearest safe, affordable, and legal exit out of Russia.

ANTALYA, Turkey — Near Antalya's Mediterranean Sea beach is a small park known as Matryoshka Park, for its large sculpture of traditional Russian nesting dolls. More than half the sculpture's dolls are missing now, since vandals destroyed them after Russia invaded Ukraine.

Turkey is one of the countries where Russians are fleeing conscription, following Russian President Vladimir Putin's plan to mobilize an additional 300,000 troops to bolster his war in Ukraine. The exodus can be felt acutely in Antalya, a large city on Turkey's southwestern coast. It's a longtime Russian tourist destination that's now becoming a refuge for those who don't want to fight in the war.

Anti-war Russians began moving here in March, shortly after their country's invasion of Ukraine. The current influx is larger and known as "the second wave" among the local Russian community.


SEOUL, South Korea — Groups of Russians have sailed to South Korea to avoid being conscripted for the war in Ukraine — only for most of them to be refused entry at the border.

South Korean coast guard records show five boats carrying 23 people have reached the country since Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the “partial mobilization" of military reservists last month after having suffered military and territorial losses in Ukraine.

Belgium, Brussels – Throughout Russia’s war in Ukraine, the European Union has largely been off-limits to Russians keen to enter the bloc.

Flights and land transport to and from Russia have been banned, and EU nations have imposed stricter and costlier visa systems, making it harder to enter.

After President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilisation order on September 21, a move that set off a Russian rush to the borders as thousands of men tried to avoid being drafted, these entry rules became even more rigid.

Kinda hard to deny when so many widely different sources are all saying the same thing.
 
Sounds a lot like the 60s and 70's in the U.S. during the Vietnam war.

The two are not even close.

Over a period of nine years, the maximum number that fled the US is only 100,000 (most place it at 30-40,000).

Russia has had more than twice that many leave in less than six months.

And the US never tried to chase them down, or talked about closing the borders and arresting them at the borders. If somebody wanted to leave the US and go to Canada or Mexico, there were no soldiers rounding them up at the border and forcing them to report for training.

So the two situations are nothing alike.
 
And the US never tried to chase them down, or talked about closing the borders and arresting them at the borders. If somebody wanted to leave the US and go to Canada or Mexico, there were no soldiers rounding them up at the border and forcing them to report for training.
Totally Incorrect ... :nono:
I was drafted into the US Army during the Vietnam war and was flown to Fort Lewis, Wash. which is located close to Seattle for basic training.
We were housed and trained in an isolated area called north fort with just one road linking us to the rest of the base and all of us had a white patch sewed on the front of our uniform which instantly identified us as basic training soldiers. We were absolutely forbidden from wandering outside of our area under threat of arrest. I personally never saw the rest of Fort Lewis because the buses used to transport us from the airport to the basic training area had blacked out windows.
All of this was because Army didn't want any soldiers trying to flee to Canada that was only a couple of hours away by car, and had happened before.
There were anti-war groups that would sneak onto Fort Lewis during the night and tack up posters with a phone number to call them if you wanted to desert the army and go to Canada and get political asylum.
They'd somehow sneak you off the base during the night, drive you in the car's trunk across border, have you scam marry a Canadian girl, and you'd instantly become a Canadian citizen.
The anti-war group also did this for any young American man who feared being drafted and wanted to hide in Canada.
And I can assure you, the US border police and Federal agencies were actively seeking out and arresting anyone trying to avoid the draft. ... :cool:
 
We were absolutely forbidden from wandering outside of our area under threat of arrest. I personally never saw the rest of Fort Lewis because the buses used to transport us from the airport to the basic training area had blacked out windows.
All of this was because Army didn't want any soldiers trying to flee to Canada that was only a couple of hours away by car, and had happened before.

And this is absolute nonsense, because it is still that way to this day.

When I was at MCRD San Diego for my boot camp, we were not allowed to be anywhere but the assigned area. And that was 1983, during the all volunteer era. So it was not like they were worried we were going to run to Mexico.

And it was the exact same when I was at Fort Sill in 2007. And repeat again at Fort Bliss from 2007 until 2010 when the AIT left there and moved to Fort Sill.

Initial Entry recruits are always segregated, and restricted to only the area of the base they are supposed to be in. When I was at Fort Sill we even had a few caught wandering outside of the allowed area to buy cigarettes. However, we were no longer "Initial Entry" but "Retraining" so nothing happened to us other than a lecture to not get caught doing that again.

And yes, not even to not do it again, but not get caught. Because all of us had already served at least 4 years, so we were not "recruits" anymore.

The part about them worried people would escape to Canada is entirely of your own imagination. Every single base that does initial entry training (and even advanced training) has been like that since WWI when the military first started doing basic training. And to a lesser degree for those in their advanced training as well. It had not a damned thing to do with Vietnam and Canada.
 
The part about them worried people would escape to Canada is entirely of your own imagination. It had not a damned thing to do with Vietnam and Canada.
Son, I was drafted into the Army in 1970 and the Vietnam war was still raging on and guys were fleeing to Canada. Times were way different then.
And yes, everything I wrote was my experience and actually happened during my basic training at Fort Lewis.
I then did my AIT training at Fort Bliss and it wasn't in a closed area like Fort Lewis and we even went to El Paso on the weekends
You are right that guys weren't fleeing to Mexico to avoid the draft. Because the country of Mexico didn't offer amnesty and citizenship to draft dodgers like Canada did.
Also, you were in an all volunteer Army a couple of decades after I was in, and everybody in my company was drafted except one guy who joined.
So your doing an apples to oranges comparison.
 
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Son, I was drafted into the Army in 1970 and the Vietnam war was still raging on and guys were fleeing to Canada. Times were way different then.
And yes, everything I wrote was my experience and actually happened during my basic training at Fort Lewis.
I then did my AIT training at Fort Bliss and it wasn't in a closed area like Fort Lewis and we even went to El Paso on the weekends

However, it is still that way to this day, so obviously it had nothing to do with the Vietnam War.

And yes, when AIT was still at Fort Bliss, those students were housed mainside and largely had free run of the base. But that was not the case at the old Basic Training area, which is now base housing. That part of the base was closed off, and nobody not part of the training operations was allowed in. And those there for training were not allowed out. You could even see that at the Army Hospital, which had a fenced off area that was for those in boot camp but needed medical care. That has not been used in decades, but at least in 2012 you could still easily identify that part of the hospital grounds from the rest (I know they were preparing to tear that all down when I left).

The problem here as I said is you are seeing what the military had always done and still does, and thinking it had anything at all to do with Vietnam.
 
However, it is still that way to this day, so obviously it had nothing to do with the Vietnam War. The problem here as I said is you are seeing what the military had always done and still does, and thinking it had anything at all to do with Vietnam.
You still wrong, and I have no idea why your arguing with someone who experienced this while you were still in diapers?
You mentioned Ft. Sill so there's a good chance you're a "red leg"?
My father was a career Army officer and I grew up living on or around several army bases and know exactly how things work in the military.
 
You still wrong, and I have no idea why your arguing with someone who experienced this while you were still in diapers?
You mentioned Ft. Sill so there's a good chance you're a "red leg"?

It is still a false analogy.

False Analogy: The fallacy, or false analogy, is an argument based on misleading, superficial, or implausible comparisons. It is also known as a faulty analogy, weak analogy, wrongful comparison, metaphor as argument, and analogical fallacy. The term comes from the Latin word fallacia, meaning "deception, deceit, trick, or artifice".

Fact is, it was done before the Vietnam War. It was done after the Vietnam War. Therefore, the military doing that has nothing to do with the Vietnam War.

And FYI, when the Army started bringing back those that had served before, we all reported to Fort Sill. Does not matter what branch you were in, or your MOS. All who joined the Army after being out of the military for more than 1 year reported there for reception before going on to their actual training (which at that time was at White Sands Missile Range).

As for my background, that would be 10 years in the Infantry. Then 5 years in Air Defense, then another 10 in Communications. Whatever a "red leg" is, that means nothing to me.
 
Totally Incorrect ... :nono:
I was drafted into the US Army during the Vietnam war and was flown to Fort Lewis, Wash. which is located close to Seattle for basic training.
We were housed and trained in an isolated area called north fort with just one road linking us to the rest of the base and all of us had a white patch sewed on the front of our uniform which instantly identified us as basic training soldiers. We were absolutely forbidden from wandering outside of our area under threat of arrest. I personally never saw the rest of Fort Lewis because the buses used to transport us from the airport to the basic training area had blacked out windows.
All of this was because Army didn't want any soldiers trying to flee to Canada that was only a couple of hours away by car, and had happened before.
There were anti-war groups that would sneak onto Fort Lewis during the night and tack up posters with a phone number to call them if you wanted to desert the army and go to Canada and get political asylum.
They'd somehow sneak you off the base during the night, drive you in the car's trunk across border, have you scam marry a Canadian girl, and you'd instantly become a Canadian citizen.
The anti-war group also did this for any young American man who feared being drafted and wanted to hide in Canada.
And I can assure you, the US border police and Federal agencies were actively seeking out and arresting anyone trying to avoid the draft. ... :cool:
UHH, I went through Basic during Vietnam at Fort Ord and again post-Vietnam at Fort Leonard Wood. The same restrictions and marking existed. Segregating basic trainees is part of the process of changing them from civilians to soldiers. It had nothing to do with Fort Lewis (where I was stationed from mid '71 to '73 being fifty miles from Canada.
 
The only fact is that you're wrong. Period.

Funny, we now have history saying you are wrong, as well as another that says you were wrong.

That is simply how basic training is, it has nothing to do with Vietnam.

But please, since I am wrong, show me any basic training prior to Vietnam that was not segregated. Or after Vietnam. If I am so wrong, that should be easy enough for you to prove.
 
UHH, I went through Basic during Vietnam at Fort Ord and again post-Vietnam at Fort Leonard Wood. The same restrictions and marking existed. Segregating basic trainees is part of the process of changing them from civilians to soldiers. It had nothing to do with Fort Lewis (where I was stationed from mid '71 to '73 being fifty miles from Canada.
I agree the Army does segregate soldiers during basic training. I never said they didn't.
All I was talking about in my original post was the extreme measures at Fort Lewis when I was there in 1970 to isolate the new soldiers during basic training. We had a white rectangular tag sewn on above the top front pocket of our uniform shirts that identified us basic trainees. An easy identifier for the MP's to nab anyone who was out of the area.
Something I've never seen or heard of at any other basic training base.
Seattle, Wash. is located very close to Ft. Lewis and even back then was a very lefty liberal city. The anti-Vietnam war movement was very radical and strong in the Seattle area.
Yes, they sometimes managed to sneak in during the night and tack up posters about asylum in Canada with a phone number to call if you wanted to go. I can only assume this caused a lot of paranoia among the top brass at Ft. Lewis about soldiers running off to Canada which was only like a couple of hours drive away.
You have to remember during that time a large number of the soldiers in basic training were draftees and not at all happy about being in the Army.
 
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