Palestinians demand return of "their" heritage -- Dead Sea Scolls

[Eloy]

Yes, Palestine was called Judea during the writing of some of the scrolls. I said as much. At the same time, I do not want to give time to studying Jewish scriptures, if you don't mind. You see, i think it is all hocus pocus.

Yes, but the Jews AND THE SCROLLS still called it Judea- for 2000 years. Even the Romans did for a hundred or so years before the revolts.

You don't have to be a detective or "study" the scriptures to see the unquestionable connection between Israel and these scrolls.
Palestinians and the original Philistines are clearly the enemies of everything these scrolls stand for.

Do You know who stole the Ark of the Covenant according to the scrolls?

No, I would fail your test on the mythical Ark of the Covenant.
Most people do not know if Judea was the only name given to the region in the scrolls dating over hundreds of years and you must understand that in discussions like this, without scholarly citations, it is asking us to take your word alone.
What is of paramount significance is that the scrolls were discovered in the modern state of Palestine and should be in the care of the Palestinians. It has to be borne in mind, however, that Palestine is under constant siege and brutal occupation by the Israelis so nothing and no-one is safe there.

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

 

[rylah]

How can the Palestinian Muslims and Christians, many of whose ancestors previously practiced Judaism and are the native indigenous people of Palestine have less right to the documents than people whose whose ancestors are from other continents?

Again Jews were as much Palestinians as other people. When You advocate for Palestinian connection You're talking about Jews too.
Since the Jews are the keepers of the language, heritage and culture of the scrolls and since many Palestinian Jews are citizens of Israel, the scrolls have no better location and treatment than in Israel.

The Zionists that conquered Palestine were Europeans and the Sephardic are from Spain, Portugal and North Africa and their genetic connection to the people that wrote scrolls is minimal for the former and far less than that of the Palestinians for the latter. The scrolls were found in the West Bank I understand, they should remain in the West Bank and should belong to the closest descendants of the people who wrote them, regardless of what religion the closest descendants adopted.

However Israeli Jews, be them Sephardi, Yemenite, Iraqi or Ashkenazi are still the only people who study this scrolls and their heritage daily in the most secular schools. Like they did for thousands of years no matter here they were expelled to.

Even if Your theory was correct, You conveniently forget the Jews that lived in Palestine, to whom the European and Middle Eastern Jews later rejoined.


Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

 

[rylah]

Yes, but the Jews AND THE SCROLLS still called it Judea- for 2000 years. Even the Romans did for a hundred or so years before the revolts.

You don't have to be a detective or "study" the scriptures to see the unquestionable connection between Israel and these scrolls.
Palestinians and the original Philistines are clearly the enemies of everything these scrolls stand for.

Do You know who stole the Ark of the Covenant according to the scrolls?

No, I would fail your test on the mythical Ark of the Covenant.
Most people do not know if Judea was the only name given to the region in the scrolls dating over hundreds of years and you must understand that in discussions like this, without scholarly citations, it is asking us to take your word alone.
What is of paramount significance is that the scrolls were discovered in the modern state of Palestine and should be in the care of the Palestinians. It has to be borne in mind, however, that Palestine is under constant siege and brutal occupation by the Israelis so nothing and no-one is safe there.

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Yes but at the time they were written it was Judea.

What an ignorance, on one hand You claim You don't know much about the message of the scrolls and not willing to even touch that.
Yet on the other hand You're willing to ignore clear historical facts in favor of some modern political shenanigans.

I tell You as an Israeli Jew- we study this texts for centuries and even today in each secular schools. The Palestinians are the enemies of that heritage. You have no valid say, opinion or jurisdiction. My heritage, my language and my people. Mind Your crosses and obelisks.

 

[montelatici]

Well the current Nova Roma pagans might say the same thing about Roman artifacts. They may say Italians, now Christians, have no right to the artifacts because they are enemies of that heritage. But, it really isn't the case.

 

[Eloy]

How can the Palestinian Muslims and Christians, many of whose ancestors previously practiced Judaism and are the native indigenous people of Palestine have less right to the documents than people whose whose ancestors are from other continents?

Again Jews were as much Palestinians as other people. When You advocate for Palestinian connection You're talking about Jews too.
Since the Jews are the keepers of the language, heritage and culture of the scrolls and since many Palestinian Jews are citizens of Israel, the scrolls have no better location and treatment than in Israel.

The Zionists that conquered Palestine were Europeans and the Sephardic are from Spain, Portugal and North Africa and their genetic connection to the people that wrote scrolls is minimal for the former and far less than that of the Palestinians for the latter. The scrolls were found in the West Bank I understand, they should remain in the West Bank and should belong to the closest descendants of the people who wrote them, regardless of what religion the closest descendants adopted.

However Israeli Jews, be them Sephardi, Yemenite, Iraqi or Ashkenazi are still the only people who study this scrolls and their heritage daily in the most secular schools. Like they did for thousands of years no matter here they were expelled to.

Even if Your theory was correct, You conveniently forget the Jews that lived in Palestine, to whom the European and Middle Eastern Jews later rejoined.


Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

 

[rylah]

Well the current Nova Roma pagans might say the same thing about Roman artifacts. They may say Italians, now Christians, have no right to the artifacts because they are enemies of that heritage. But, it really isn't the case.

So if it isn't the case in Your example than why bringing it up?
Here it's THE CASE- as claimed by the Palestinians themselves.

Show me one time when the Palestinians respected anything Jewish.

 

[rylah]

Again Jews were as much Palestinians as other people. When You advocate for Palestinian connection You're talking about Jews too.
Since the Jews are the keepers of the language, heritage and culture of the scrolls and since many Palestinian Jews are citizens of Israel, the scrolls have no better location and treatment than in Israel.

The Zionists that conquered Palestine were Europeans and the Sephardic are from Spain, Portugal and North Africa and their genetic connection to the people that wrote scrolls is minimal for the former and far less than that of the Palestinians for the latter. The scrolls were found in the West Bank I understand, they should remain in the West Bank and should belong to the closest descendants of the people who wrote them, regardless of what religion the closest descendants adopted.

However Israeli Jews, be them Sephardi, Yemenite, Iraqi or Ashkenazi are still the only people who study this scrolls and their heritage daily in the most secular schools. Like they did for thousands of years no matter here they were expelled to.

Even if Your theory was correct, You conveniently forget the Jews that lived in Palestine, to whom the European and Middle Eastern Jews later rejoined.


Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

It was You who brought up the 'ethnic purity' (and still do above) not me. Claiming 'Aryan looking Jews'. That was the level You brought to the conversation.
All I do is show that the Jews have everything covered there also.

Nothing original or remotely related to the subject of history and heritage of archaeological artifacts. Your opinions here are irrelevant.

The mere presence of the Hebrew scrolls means the area was Jewish.
Written in Hebrew, talking about Jews and found in Judea.

Do You have better place for Jewish scrolls rather than Judea Jerusalem?

 

[Eloy]

The Zionists that conquered Palestine were Europeans and the Sephardic are from Spain, Portugal and North Africa and their genetic connection to the people that wrote scrolls is minimal for the former and far less than that of the Palestinians for the latter. The scrolls were found in the West Bank I understand, they should remain in the West Bank and should belong to the closest descendants of the people who wrote them, regardless of what religion the closest descendants adopted.

However Israeli Jews, be them Sephardi, Yemenite, Iraqi or Ashkenazi are still the only people who study this scrolls and their heritage daily in the most secular schools. Like they did for thousands of years no matter here they were expelled to.

Even if Your theory was correct, You conveniently forget the Jews that lived in Palestine, to whom the European and Middle Eastern Jews later rejoined.


Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

It was You who brought up the 'ethnic purity' (and still do above) not me. Claiming 'Aryan looking Jews'. That was the level You brought to the conversation.
All I do is show that the Jews have everything covered there also.

Nothing original or remotely related to the subject of history and heritage of archaeological artifacts. Your opinions here are irrelevant.

The mere presence of the Hebrew scrolls means the area was Jewish.
Written in Hebrew, talking about Jews and found in Judea.

Do You have better place for Jewish scrolls rather than Judea Jerusalem?

Your whole argument is racist. You are at ease defending a sectarian state. The very concept of Zionism is on the wrong side of history and has within it the source of its own destruction, just as Nazism was destroyed, and racist South Africa. I see nothing but sorrow for a country that was supposed to be a safe home for Jews who have been making the Palestinians pay the price for such an evil doctrine. Next to the unbelievable sectarian racism of Israel, where the Dead Sea Scrolls reside is of little importance.

 

[rylah]

However Israeli Jews, be them Sephardi, Yemenite, Iraqi or Ashkenazi are still the only people who study this scrolls and their heritage daily in the most secular schools. Like they did for thousands of years no matter here they were expelled to.

Even if Your theory was correct, You conveniently forget the Jews that lived in Palestine, to whom the European and Middle Eastern Jews later rejoined.


Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

It was You who brought up the 'ethnic purity' (and still do above) not me. Claiming 'Aryan looking Jews'. That was the level You brought to the conversation.
All I do is show that the Jews have everything covered there also.

Nothing original or remotely related to the subject of history and heritage of archaeological artifacts. Your opinions here are irrelevant.

The mere presence of the Hebrew scrolls means the area was Jewish.
Written in Hebrew, talking about Jews and found in Judea.

Do You have better place for Jewish scrolls rather than Judea Jerusalem?

Your whole argument is racist. You are at ease defending a sectarian state. The very concept of Zionism is on the wrong side of history and has within it the source of its own destruction, just as Nazism was destroyed, and racist South Africa. I see nothing but sorrow for a country that was supposed to be a safe home for Jews who have been making the Palestinians pay the price for such an evil doctrine. Next to the unbelievable sectarian racism of Israel, where the Dead Sea Scrolls reside is of little importance.

Nothing racist about discussing language, heritage and history.
Talking about physical appearance and blood as a characterization of Jews was YOUR contribution. You cannot blame me now for trying to speak on Your level, in You terms and language.

I guess You have nothing on the subject except for the old fashioned slogans, and that's why You throw at me ad hominem that has nothing in relation to the SCROLLS.

 

[Hossfly]

Yes, but the Jews AND THE SCROLLS still called it Judea- for 2000 years. Even the Romans did for a hundred or so years before the revolts.

You don't have to be a detective or "study" the scriptures to see the unquestionable connection between Israel and these scrolls.
Palestinians and the original Philistines are clearly the enemies of everything these scrolls stand for.

Do You know who stole the Ark of the Covenant according to the scrolls?

No, I would fail your test on the mythical Ark of the Covenant.
Most people do not know if Judea was the only name given to the region in the scrolls dating over hundreds of years and you must understand that in discussions like this, without scholarly citations, it is asking us to take your word alone.
What is of paramount significance is that the scrolls were discovered in the modern state of Palestine and should be in the care of the Palestinians. It has to be borne in mind, however, that Palestine is under constant siege and brutal occupation by the Israelis so nothing and no-one is safe there.

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Well, Eloy, since you appear obsessed with these scrolls and nothing else going on in the Middle East, why not ask these folks who they would rather see safeguard them?

The Last Days of Christ - First Presbyterian Church

BTW, when these scrolls were written, there were no sign of Arabs in the Holy Land.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

In fact, Eloy, icons from the 2nd to the 4th AD were touring the U.S. St. Catherine's Church in the Sinai was kind enough to send these icons over. From the icons, you can discern that Christians in Egypt were very religious. However, you will not see one Arab in any of the icons since they were still on the Arabian Peninsula.

 

[montelatici]

No, I would fail your test on the mythical Ark of the Covenant.
Most people do not know if Judea was the only name given to the region in the scrolls dating over hundreds of years and you must understand that in discussions like this, without scholarly citations, it is asking us to take your word alone.
What is of paramount significance is that the scrolls were discovered in the modern state of Palestine and should be in the care of the Palestinians. It has to be borne in mind, however, that Palestine is under constant siege and brutal occupation by the Israelis so nothing and no-one is safe there.

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Well, Eloy, since you appear obsessed with these scrolls and nothing else going on in the Middle East, why not ask these folks who they would rather see safeguard them?

The Last Days of Christ - First Presbyterian Church

BTW, when these scrolls were written, there were no sign of Arabs in the Holy Land.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

In fact, Eloy, icons from the 2nd to the 4th AD were touring the U.S. St. Catherine's Church in the Sinai was kind enough to send these icons over. From the icons, you can discern that Christians in Egypt were very religious. However, you will not see one Arab in any of the icons since they were still on the Arabian Peninsula.

You are confusing Arab with Arabian. It is like confusing Hispanic with Spaniard.

 

[Eloy]

The vast majority of Israelis owe their ancestry to Middle and Eastern Europe. There is no sense in which a Russian Jew who immigrates to the Occupied Territories and as soldiers humiliate and kill indigenous Palestinians are "rejoining" anyone.

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

It was You who brought up the 'ethnic purity' (and still do above) not me. Claiming 'Aryan looking Jews'. That was the level You brought to the conversation.
All I do is show that the Jews have everything covered there also.

Nothing original or remotely related to the subject of history and heritage of archaeological artifacts. Your opinions here are irrelevant.

The mere presence of the Hebrew scrolls means the area was Jewish.
Written in Hebrew, talking about Jews and found in Judea.

Do You have better place for Jewish scrolls rather than Judea Jerusalem?

Your whole argument is racist. You are at ease defending a sectarian state. The very concept of Zionism is on the wrong side of history and has within it the source of its own destruction, just as Nazism was destroyed, and racist South Africa. I see nothing but sorrow for a country that was supposed to be a safe home for Jews who have been making the Palestinians pay the price for such an evil doctrine. Next to the unbelievable sectarian racism of Israel, where the Dead Sea Scrolls reside is of little importance.

Nothing racist about discussing language, heritage and history.
Talking about physical appearance and blood as a characterization of Jews was YOUR contribution. You cannot blame me now for trying to speak on Your level, in You terms and language.

I guess You have nothing on the subject except for the old fashioned slogans, and that's why You throw at me ad hominem that has nothing in relation to the SCROLLS.

Naturally, I regret that my analysis and statement of the unpalatable truth about the Zionists has not persuaded you. I am not surprised. I fault you only on your commitment to Zionism, not you personally. It would take a better man than me to undo what you have been conditioned to believe. Forgive me for trying.

 

[Eloy]

No, I would fail your test on the mythical Ark of the Covenant.
Most people do not know if Judea was the only name given to the region in the scrolls dating over hundreds of years and you must understand that in discussions like this, without scholarly citations, it is asking us to take your word alone.
What is of paramount significance is that the scrolls were discovered in the modern state of Palestine and should be in the care of the Palestinians. It has to be borne in mind, however, that Palestine is under constant siege and brutal occupation by the Israelis so nothing and no-one is safe there.

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Well, Eloy, since you appear obsessed with these scrolls and nothing else going on in the Middle East, why not ask these folks who they would rather see safeguard them? ...

Actually, I have written all I care to about the Dead Sea Scrolls. I have nothing more to add.

 

[montelatici]

Rylah is a good guy. He is reasonable but he is naturally conditioned. The Anglos that conquered Texas and fought at the Alamo thought like Rylah. They were conditioned to believe that they had the right to replace the Mexicans that lived in Texas and take over. Maybe Israel will be successful and 100 years from now they will have eliminated the non-Jew's resistance and will control the area without resistance and when they look at the history they will say, heck we were really wrong, but now everything is better. Somehow I think the demographics are not so positive, but who knows.

 

[rylah]

Yet again so much drama wishing to change the subject- THE SCROLLS.
Jews from Russia who suffered for centuries but still remained Jewish have much more claim to the scrolls, than people who have a basic aim to OBLITERATE Judaism. No matter the origin. European Jews can at least read and explain You what the scrolls are about.

However and anyway this obsession with Ashkenazi Jews is actually the weak point in Your propaganda. The vast majority of Israelis today are of Israeli origin.

And REMEMBER: The Cohen-Levi gene was spread unchanged among all communities. A Cohen who came from Europe after 2000 yrs of excile would have that same gene as a Cohen who lived in the Middle East.
And even without it Ashkenazi Jews although have traces of European DNA, have enough similarity with the local surrounding population of ME.

If You want to claim that Jews are Russians, ask them and tell me what's the response Furthermore I'd like to stay on topic -THE SCROLLS.

I will try not to dwell on your change of the subject concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls. You are writing about Russian pogroms and no-one doubts they happened. I would agree that they represent attempts to destroy Judaism in Russia. To use the persecution of Russian Jews as establishing a right of their ownership of the Dead Sea Scrolls over that of the Palestinian people who are indigenous to Qumran is false. You also overstate the skills of Russian Jews to be able to read and interpret the scholarly ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It is one of the insults visited upon the Palestinians to be treated like dogs by soldiers of the Israel Defense Force who can hardly understand modern Hebrew as they give orders with thick Russian accents.

The vast majority of Israelis are only a very few generations away from Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.. European origin.

I refuse to get into a characterization of people by bogus racist doctrine such as your reference to Cohen-Levi. Unlike Zionists, I reject racism. Like the Nazi's pursuit of racial Aryan purity, it is a dead end, one that can generate torment of completely innocent people such as the children and families of Gaza.

It was You who brought up the 'ethnic purity' (and still do above) not me. Claiming 'Aryan looking Jews'. That was the level You brought to the conversation.
All I do is show that the Jews have everything covered there also.

Nothing original or remotely related to the subject of history and heritage of archaeological artifacts. Your opinions here are irrelevant.

The mere presence of the Hebrew scrolls means the area was Jewish.
Written in Hebrew, talking about Jews and found in Judea.

Do You have better place for Jewish scrolls rather than Judea Jerusalem?

Your whole argument is racist. You are at ease defending a sectarian state. The very concept of Zionism is on the wrong side of history and has within it the source of its own destruction, just as Nazism was destroyed, and racist South Africa. I see nothing but sorrow for a country that was supposed to be a safe home for Jews who have been making the Palestinians pay the price for such an evil doctrine. Next to the unbelievable sectarian racism of Israel, where the Dead Sea Scrolls reside is of little importance.

Nothing racist about discussing language, heritage and history.
Talking about physical appearance and blood as a characterization of Jews was YOUR contribution. You cannot blame me now for trying to speak on Your level, in You terms and language.

I guess You have nothing on the subject except for the old fashioned slogans, and that's why You throw at me ad hominem that has nothing in relation to the SCROLLS.

Naturally, I regret that my analysis and statement of the unpalatable truth about the Zionists has not persuaded you. I am not surprised. I fault you only on your commitment to Zionism, not you personally. It would take a better man than me to undo what you have been conditioned to believe. Forgive me for trying.

So You admit that the sole purpose of Your 'argument' here was to persuade me against Jews having their presence in Israel..
I'm not surprised You barely touched the subject at hand- THE SCROLLS.

You see, Roman would wipe out peoples who rebelled twice. Judea rebelled 3 times and we are still Jewish!.
How funny is the fact that You were even thinking that You had any chance...ON SUCH A SUBJECT.

You see there's nothing new You can throw at 4000 yrs of heritage and knowledge.

 

[Hossfly]

C'mon You need scholary sources to understand that scrolls of Bible written in Hebrew have direct connections to Israeli Jews and Christians?

The scrolls have much deeper past than last century, and it leads it directly to Jews.
Tell me is Hebrew, Torah, Jewish culture or Jews anyhow represented or respected in Arab Palestinian govt? Or any any Arab country, as Arab culture represented in Israel?

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Well, Eloy, since you appear obsessed with these scrolls and nothing else going on in the Middle East, why not ask these folks who they would rather see safeguard them?

The Last Days of Christ - First Presbyterian Church

BTW, when these scrolls were written, there were no sign of Arabs in the Holy Land.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

In fact, Eloy, icons from the 2nd to the 4th AD were touring the U.S. St. Catherine's Church in the Sinai was kind enough to send these icons over. From the icons, you can discern that Christians in Egypt were very religious. However, you will not see one Arab in any of the icons since they were still on the Arabian Peninsula.

You are confusing Arab with Arabian. It is like confusing Hispanic with Spaniard.

Has the squawking parrot been on his perch all day? Meanwhile, if you get a chance and the icons are still touring, you will hear viewers make the remark that there are no Arabs depicted in the icons. Those Arabs came later.

History of Jihad against the Egyptian Coptic Christians (640)

 

[rylah]

Rylah is a good guy. He is reasonable but he is naturally conditioned. The Anglos that conquered Texas and fought at the Alamo thought like Rylah. They were conditioned to believe that they had the right to replace the Mexicans that lived in Texas and take over. Maybe Israel will be successful and 100 years from now they will have eliminated the non-Jew's resistance and will control the area without resistance and when they look at the history they will say, heck we were really wrong, but now everything is better. Somehow I think the demographics are not so positive, but who knows.

If by "naturally conditioned" You mean Jewish education then maybe.
Why would a Jew advocate for the oldest Torah scrolls be held by anyone else than the Jewish homeland?

Your moral judgment of me is even funnier since much of Your values and morals were given You by MY PEOPLE. By the very same scrolls. And You still don't see the circles You run around.

 

[Eloy]

Rylah is a good guy. He is reasonable but he is naturally conditioned. The Anglos that conquered Texas and fought at the Alamo thought like Rylah. They were conditioned to believe that they had the right to replace the Mexicans that lived in Texas and take over. Maybe Israel will be successful and 100 years from now they will have eliminated the non-Jew's resistance and will control the area without resistance and when they look at the history they will say, heck we were really wrong, but now everything is better. Somehow I think the demographics are not so positive, but who knows.

You are forgetting what happened in the 20th century. The world is a different place than it was when President Polk made a huge land grab of Mexican territory in the 19th century when it was not illegal to acquire land through war not to move the population of the victors into the land of the vanquished. There will not be peace in an apartheid Israel, not today and not in a hundred years.

 

[montelatici]

I would like a citation or two that Qumran is always referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls as Judea; yes.
I recall staying for a while in Morocco and met there a friendly Jewish shopkeeper whom I would visit on trips to the town. The impression I had was that she and her family lived unmolested by the government or anyone else. Jews have lived in the West Bank for thousands of years, as have Christians, and more latterly, converts to Islam. I hope that can happen again but it cannot be so unless Israel ends its Zionist occupation or forsake the sectarian nature of Israel as an exclusively Jewish state.

Are You lazy on google today?
Search for the borders of Judea tribe in the Torah, match with the maps- done.

I've already given You enough crushing evidences.
No need to address all this speculation and deflection.
I'm not going to change the course and the subject every time You avoid straight questions.

I have thousands of years of residence, heritage and learning from such scriptures.
You have speculation relying on recent modern political games.

You may very well be an expert on Dead Sea Scrolls exegesis and all about them in which case you will know that they were discovered in the West Bank where, in justice, they belong. I granted that they are not so safe there, given the brutal occupation by the Israelis.

Well, Eloy, since you appear obsessed with these scrolls and nothing else going on in the Middle East, why not ask these folks who they would rather see safeguard them?

The Last Days of Christ - First Presbyterian Church

BTW, when these scrolls were written, there were no sign of Arabs in the Holy Land.

Doc's Talk: A TOUR OF PALESTINE; THE YEAR IS 1695

In fact, Eloy, icons from the 2nd to the 4th AD were touring the U.S. St. Catherine's Church in the Sinai was kind enough to send these icons over. From the icons, you can discern that Christians in Egypt were very religious. However, you will not see one Arab in any of the icons since they were still on the Arabian Peninsula.

You are confusing Arab with Arabian. It is like confusing Hispanic with Spaniard.

Has the squawking parrot been on his perch all day? Meanwhile, if you get a chance and the icons are still touring, you will hear viewers make the remark that there are no Arabs depicted in the icons. Those Arabs came later.

History of Jihad against the Egyptian Coptic Christians (640)

You really are too stupid to participate in this conversation. Go away.

 

[rylah]

Rylah is a good guy. He is reasonable but he is naturally conditioned. The Anglos that conquered Texas and fought at the Alamo thought like Rylah. They were conditioned to believe that they had the right to replace the Mexicans that lived in Texas and take over. Maybe Israel will be successful and 100 years from now they will have eliminated the non-Jew's resistance and will control the area without resistance and when they look at the history they will say, heck we were really wrong, but now everything is better. Somehow I think the demographics are not so positive, but who knows.

You are forgetting what happened in the 20th century. The world is a different place than it was when President Polk made a huge land grab of Mexican territory in the 19th century when it was not illegal to acquire land through war not to move the population of the victors into the land of the vanquished. There will not be peace in an apartheid Israel, not today and not in a hundred years.

If You'd read the scrolls You'd understand that were're not expecting too much calm anyway. Just read the scrolls so You can call Yourself an overall educated person. Knowing the Bible is not a shame, it's a great insight into current geopolitical and cultural conflict.